abs question

rogor1 · 08-11-2007, 08:06 PM

When I do a crunch, my abs look strange. I can see my abs down the center tense up and stand out, I guess those are the rectus abdominus. But on the sides it's like a total cave in. Am I just not hitting the obliques enough?

I haven't been training my abs for too long and I've never really targeted them seriously before, but I though I should have at least some amount of muscle tone on the sides.

I also do weight training and cardio, as well as keep a clean diet. I've worked out before so I have a decent knowledge of what I should eat and how to workout. I'm just getting back in to the habit lately.

zonaguy03 · 08-11-2007, 09:57 PM

you ever tried doing planks? side planks are the best. google it for a picture. I've gotten up to 1 minute on my side planks and 2 minutes for reg. planks 3-4 sets every day.

Duncans Donuts · 08-11-2007, 10:01 PM

Anyone who advises you to do ab exercises every day...is wrong.

zonaguy03 · 08-11-2007, 10:26 PM

core exercises

and i do what i want. trent suzuki, a San Diego legend trainer has taught me well...look him up, and ask him about the Hawk

vortrit · 08-11-2007, 10:46 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong someone but aren't planks more for building stability than anything else?

rogor1 · 08-12-2007, 03:32 AM

This site says:

"The abdominal plank is a great exercise for strengthening the transverse abdominus. The transverse abdominus is the deepest layer of abdominal muscle and wraps around the whole midsection. When you contract the abdominals, your waist becomes thinner. This is the action of the transverse. Therefore, a strong transverse abdominus means a smaller, tighter waist."

Ab Plank - Abdominal Exercises

I didn't know about the plank though. I'll have to give it a shot.

zonaguy03 · 08-12-2007, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogor1

This site says:

"The abdominal plank is a great exercise for strengthening the transverse abdominus. The transverse abdominus is the deepest layer of abdominal muscle and wraps around the whole midsection. When you contract the abdominals, your waist becomes thinner. This is the action of the transverse. Therefore, a strong transverse abdominus means a smaller, tighter waist."

Ab Plank - Abdominal Exercises

I didn't know about the plank though. I'll have to give it a shot.

You're a good man. I was that guy who did 1000 crunches a day and did NOT get results I was looking for. Obviously, that's not the way to go. Planks on the other hand, I've seen outstanding results. The key is how long you can do it for. Start out by timing yourself and maxing out with reg. planks, and side planks. Then you can use those numbers, and increase as you get better and stronger with the exercise. I started out going 45 seconds reg. planks and 25-30 seconds sides. Be patient, but slightly increase the length if possible each day or so.

1morerrrep · 08-12-2007, 09:51 AM

Abs are like any other muscle in that you have to overload them to build thickness. I use weights for all of my ab exercises. Weighted roman chair sit ups, crunches, leg/knee raises, side bends, twists. I like drop sets - when you hit failure, drop the weight and contiue to rep out. I've gotten excellent results in only a matter of a few months.

Blooming Lotus · 08-12-2007, 01:26 PM

Everyone here is talking about working the abs as an endurance muscle fibre. .. be it through planks or via working to failure. Any endurance athlete or trainer knows that nO endurance athlete is working their best performance when they not training those every day.
I have no idea duncan why you work so hard to misinform ppl, but even on the pro boards over at musculardevelopment.com, pro B.B. and fitness board that is, if you bother to reead over there and look into the numerous array of links they have in various threads and profiles, and Dave Palumbos site isn't a bad one, you will notice that most ppl that are winning and placing intitle events arre working their abs 3 - 4 x week minimum. If we're talking those with fitness goals and not just B.B. , then that figure goes up again to every single day. . and these are ppl acheiving at world class levels.

Here's what Frank Shamrock has to say about it.

[quote TESTOSTERONE NATION ]

T: How does the weight training program breakdown?

FS: We cycle on and off different schedules and routines for weight training. However, there's one basic program that we follow and that's the "three and three" method. We'll work the whole body in three days during a one-week period. We do a push-pull system. This breaks down to chest, triceps, neck, and forearms on Monday. Then we take a day off and do legs and shoulders on Wednesday. On Friday, we do back, biceps, and abdominals. This one seems to work best for me and I've tried everything. For my athletes, we experiment to find what works best for them.

Weight training for us becomes about fourth on the list of priorities when preparing for a fight. Strength is comparative when you're doing this stuff. Strength and speed in certain areas is what you really need.

T: Is muscular endurance more important than brute strength for fighters?

FS: It is, but you still need brute strength. If you're thinking mechanics, you still need a nice, fully developed muscle that'll expand and contract very quickly so you can blast and explode through whatever you're doing. If your muscle is full and healthy it'll also contract quickly.

T: Do you ever do heavy weight training with low reps or is it mainly higher reps?

FS: We do more in the middle, three sets with three exercises, eight to twelve reps per muscle.

T: I want to get into your exercise and nutrition regimen and how you train your fighters. I know you practice a great deal of techniques such as visualization, meditation, breathing, and flexibility, but how do you manage all of this stuff and does one technique take precedence at any given time?

FS: One thing does take precedence over other things. It's just a natural progression as you're going and whatever you're focusing on. For the new guys, we have to condition their bodies so they can withstand the trauma of MMA, so we have them doing high repetition calisthenics. We build their tendons and their bodies up to the point where they can use their bodyweight a lot of times.

In training a professional athlete, we do three to four days of weights a week. We work the entire body in one week. We do two days of plyometrics, five days of cardio, two days of sparring, two days of wrestling, and two days of technique.

[end quote]

Some of these boys, Message Board - Main Forum, Topic 'Evolution 6 Photos & Result ' , have some of the most amazing functional abdominals i have ever seen. Having trained with some of them and with the world heavy weight, I can also guarantee you that they are nOt training those abs 2-3-4 x week. There are better photos around taken of them all after this set where particulary Wanye Parr ( JWP) ripps some of the meanest abs you could imagine, funnily enough after I was around that circuit and eying his wife off for a few rounds with my own ab regime as fundamental, and directly prior to his solidification of his status in world class supremacy of the sport at any weight division he enters at. . and Bruce Mcfie and undefeated world champion Ian Jacobs MySpace.com - INTEGRATED MARTIAL ARTS - 34 - Male - AU - www.myspace.com/integratedmixemartialarts whom i trained and spoke shop with and whom wanted to employ me to train his fighters in that respective order.

Those boys are in there every day and clocking up to 8 hrs on average at every level past lightweight and junior world champion who sits on 3 hrs for as many days. I understand that this is a body building forum, so here's Arnold Schwarzeneggas regime. [quote Arnold Schwarzenegger Bodybuilding Pics, Pictures, Photos - Arnold Schwarzenegger Bodybuilding Workout ] Monday & Thursday

CHEST BACK ABS
Bench Presses Chinups (4 sets until failure) Leg Raises
Incline Presses Bent-over Rows
Pullovers Deadlifts (3 sets - 10,6,4)

Tuesday & Friday

SHOULDERS ARMS FOREARMS
Clean & Press Barbell Curls Wrist Curls
Lateral Raises Seated Dumbell Curls Reverse w.Curls
Heavy Upright Rows Narrow-grip Press ABS
Push Presses Barbell Tricep Extension Incline Situps

Wednesday & Saturday

THIGHS CALVES LOWER BACK ABS

Squats Standing Calf Raises Straight Leg Deadlifts Leg Raises
Lunges
Leg Curls

* Perform 5 sets - 8 to 12 reps for each movement.
* For ab exercises, do 5 sets of 25 reps each.
[quote]

Tell Arnie he was wrong and it wont help a body builder to work their abs every day???

Blooming tianshi lotus.

Blooming Lotus · 08-12-2007, 07:55 PM

One more jussst to drive my point hm.

[quote 3WEEEKS OUT WORKOUT BY DAVE AND MR.G - Muscular Development Forums ]

3WEEEKS OUT WORKOUT BY DAVE AND MR.G

ABS ARE DONE 5 DAYS A WEEK THE ORDER OF TRAINING THE BODYPARTS
IS THESAME FOR EVERYONE

DAY 1 CHEST
1)INCLINE SMITH MACHINE PRESSES 2 SETS 8-10 REPS
2)FLAT BENCH DUMBELL PRESSES/ 1 SUPER SET 8-10 REPS
3)PLATE LOADED INCLINE CHEST PRESS 2SETS 6-8 REPS
4)FLY MACHINE 8-10 REPS 2 SETS

CALFS SEATED CALF RAISE 1 SET 15
SEATED SINGLE TOE PRESSES 15 REPS EACH LEG
ABS 2 SETS CRUNCHES 50 REPS
2 SETS OF SIDE CRUNCHES 20 REPS
2 SETS OF LEG RAISES 50 REPS EACH

DAY 2 ARMS/CALFS /ABS
SINGLE ARM BICEP CURLS WITH CABLES/2 SETS 8-10 REPS
SINGLE ARM HAMMER CURLS WITH CABELS/2 SETS 8-10 REPS
CONCETRATIN CURLS DUMBELL 1-2 SETS 8-10 REPS

TRICEPS
SINGLE ARM PUSH DOWNS 8 REPS 2 SETS
SINGLE ARM REVERSE PUSH DOWNS 10 REPS 2 SETS
SINGLE ARM CABLE FRENCH PRESSES 8 REPS 2 SETS

SEATED CALF RAISES 15 REPS/1SET
SEATED ONE LEG CALF EXTESIONS 15 REPS ON EACH CALF/1 SET

ABS
2 SETS 50 CRUNCHES
2 SETS OF 20 SIDE CRUNCHES
2 SETS OF 50 LEGS RAISES
HAVE FUN AND ENJOY YOUR WORKOUT

--------------------

DAY 3 BACK USE WRIST WRAPS
1)LAT PULLDOWNS 2 SETS 8-10 REPS TO FRONT
2)BENT OVER BARBELL ROWS REVERSE GRIP 2 SETS 8-10 REPS
3)ONE ARM DUMBELL ROWS 1 SET 10 REPS
4)SEATED ONE ARM PRONE ROWS 9 REPS
5)HYPEREXTENSIONS 1 SET 15 REPS

ABS 2 SETS 50 CRUNCHES
2 SETS 20 SIDE CRUNCHES
2 SETS 50 LEG RAISES

---------------
DAY4 SHOULDERS
1)FRONT LATERAL CABLE RAISES 2 SETS 10 REPS
2)SHOULDER PRESSES 2 SETS 8 REPS
3)ONE ARM SIDE LATERAL RAISES 2 SETS 10 REPS
4)REAR DELT LATERAL RAISES 2 SETS 10 REPS
5)SHRUGS 1 SET 15 REPS

CALFS 1SET 15 REPS SEATED
1 SET SINGLE LEG TOE RAISES 15 REPS

-----------
DAY 5 LEGS
1)ABDUCTOR 1 SET 15/ADDUCTOR 1 SET OF 15
2)SQUAT OR SQUAT MACHINE 2 SETS 8-10 ALL THE WAY DOWN
3)LEG SLED MACHINE 2 SETS 8 REPS
4)LEG EXTENSION 2 SETS 8-10 REPS
5)LEG CURLS 2 SETS 8-10 REPS

Day 1 and 2 you do both calves and abs and then on day 3 just abs, day 4 just calves, right? If your weak parts are legs and back would you put that at the beginning of the week?
[end quote]

Good luck to you Duncan. I hope you can bench that ego sometime and listen absorb and learn something or find success with what you're doing as is.

No more from me.

See yas.

Blooming tianshi lotus.

**P-funk** · 08-12-2007, 08:10 PM

Twigz · 08-12-2007, 08:17 PM

ADHD at its finest.

**P-funk** · 08-12-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twigz

ADHD at its finest.

YouTube Video

Duncans Donuts · 08-12-2007, 09:01 PM

[quote=Blooming Lotus;1670046]Everyone here is talking about working the abs as an endurance muscle fibre. .. be it through planks or via working to failure. Any endurance athlete or trainer knows that nO endurance athlete is working their best performance when they not training those every day.
I have no idea duncan why you work so hard to misinform ppl, but even on the pro boards over at musculardevelopment.com, pro B.B. and fitness board that is, if you bother to reead over there and look into the numerous array of links they have in various threads and profiles, and Dave Palumbos site isn't a bad one, you will notice that most ppl that are winning and placing intitle events arre working their abs 3 - 4 x week minimum. If we're talking those with fitness goals and not just B.B. , then that figure goes up again to every single day. . and these are ppl acheiving at world class levels.

Here's what Frank Shamrock has to say about it.

[quote TESTOSTERONE NATION ]

T: How does the weight training program breakdown?

FS: We cycle on and off different schedules and routines for weight training. However, there's one basic program that we follow and that's the "three and three" method. We'll work the whole body in three days during a one-week period. We do a push-pull system. This breaks down to chest, triceps, neck, and forearms on Monday. Then we take a day off and do legs and shoulders on Wednesday. On Friday, we do back, biceps, and abdominals. This one seems to work best for me and I've tried everything. For my athletes, we experiment to find what works best for them.

Weight training for us becomes about fourth on the list of priorities when preparing for a fight. Strength is comparative when you're doing this stuff. Strength and speed in certain areas is what you really need.

T: Is muscular endurance more important than brute strength for fighters?

FS: It is, but you still need brute strength. If you're thinking mechanics, you still need a nice, fully developed muscle that'll expand and contract very quickly so you can blast and explode through whatever you're doing. If your muscle is full and healthy it'll also contract quickly.

T: Do you ever do heavy weight training with low reps or is it mainly higher reps?

FS: We do more in the middle, three sets with three exercises, eight to twelve reps per muscle.

T: I want to get into your exercise and nutrition regimen and how you train your fighters. I know you practice a great deal of techniques such as visualization, meditation, breathing, and flexibility, but how do you manage all of this stuff and does one technique take precedence at any given time?

FS: One thing does take precedence over other things. It's just a natural progression as you're going and whatever you're focusing on. For the new guys, we have to condition their bodies so they can withstand the trauma of MMA, so we have them doing high repetition calisthenics. We build their tendons and their bodies up to the point where they can use their bodyweight a lot of times.

In training a professional athlete, we do three to four days of weights a week. We work the entire body in one week. We do two days of plyometrics, five days of cardio, two days of sparring, two days of wrestling, and two days of technique.

[end quote]

Some of these boys, Message Board - Main Forum, Topic 'Evolution 6 Photos & Result ' , have some of the most amazing functional abdominals i have ever seen. Having trained with some of them and with the world heavy weight, I can also guarantee you that they are nOt training those abs 2-3-4 x week. There are better photos around taken of them all after this set where particulary Wanye Parr ( JWP) ripps some of the meanest abs you could imagine, funnily enough after I was around that circuit and eying his wife off for a few rounds with my own ab regime as fundamental, and directly prior to his solidification of his status in world class supremacy of the sport at any weight division he enters at. . and Bruce Mcfie and undefeated world champion Ian Jacobs MySpace.com - INTEGRATED MARTIAL ARTS - 34 - Male - AU - www.myspace.com/integratedmixemartialarts whom i trained and spoke shop with and whom wanted to employ me to train his fighters in that respective order.

Those boys are in there every day and clocking up to 8 hrs on average at every level past lightweight and junior world champion who sits on 3 hrs for as many days. I understand that this is a body building forum, so here's Arnold Schwarzeneggas regime. [quote Arnold Schwarzenegger Bodybuilding Pics, Pictures, Photos - Arnold Schwarzenegger Bodybuilding Workout ] Monday & Thursday

CHEST BACK ABS
Bench Presses Chinups (4 sets until failure) Leg Raises
Incline Presses Bent-over Rows
Pullovers Deadlifts (3 sets - 10,6,4)

Tuesday & Friday

SHOULDERS ARMS FOREARMS
Clean & Press Barbell Curls Wrist Curls
Lateral Raises Seated Dumbell Curls Reverse w.Curls
Heavy Upright Rows Narrow-grip Press ABS
Push Presses Barbell Tricep Extension Incline Situps

Wednesday & Saturday

THIGHS CALVES LOWER BACK ABS

Squats Standing Calf Raises Straight Leg Deadlifts Leg Raises
Lunges
Leg Curls

* Perform 5 sets - 8 to 12 reps for each movement.
* For ab exercises, do 5 sets of 25 reps each.

Quote:

Tell Arnie he was wrong and it wont help a body builder to work their abs every day???

Blooming tianshi lotus.

Utter nonsense.

AKIRA · 08-12-2007, 09:04 PM

Jesus christ. Ive never read anyone more deserving of ignore.

I do some sort of core every day I workout. It varies a shitload and were talking mabe 4 days a week? Low volume.

**P-funk** · 08-12-2007, 09:08 PM

DD- Aside from it being utter nonsense, I will go on to say this. I typically hold the sports science institutions in Australia to very high standards. Lots of great research comes out of there, as well as excellent articles and information regarding periodization, sports enhancement, sports nutrition, etc.....Lotus, if you are honestly working towards a high level degree at one of these institutions and this is your idea of a scientific rebuttle, then my feeling towards those programs as a whole has just gone down the shitter.

Duncans Donuts · 08-12-2007, 09:24 PM

There is a great, great deal of research to demonstrate that more exercise for muscles (like the muscles that extend the lumbar spine) respond much better to lower volume training because of what could only be attributed to "overuse atrophy" - and if you disagree, fine, but (being mostly fast twitch muscle fiber in most of my primary muscle groups) the strongest my "core" ever was with a single set of weighted sit-ups twice a week. My core "stabilization" was in perfect order because of deadlifts and squats and sprinting for football.

And my endurance was fantastic.

AKIRA · 08-12-2007, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

DD- Aside from it being utter nonsense, I will go on to say this. I typically hold the sports science institutions in Australia to very high standards. Lots of great research comes out of there, as well as excellent articles and information regarding periodization, sports enhancement, sports nutrition, etc.....Lotus, if you are honestly working towards a high level degree at one of these institutions and this is your idea of a scientific rebuttle, then my feeling towards those programs as a whole has just gone down the shitter.

~*FLUSH*~

Blooming Lotus · 08-12-2007, 10:23 PM

Are you suure that when we hear something adamant that clashes with something we think we already know, we miight not want to go back and an reinvestigate?
@). Here. Iiii willll do your hmwk for you.

P- Funk. I have nothing to say to you. i am nOt mother theresa and i have other shit to do than sit around and argue with some little fuckwit who rallys ppl against good sense. I don't know who you think i am and i dont know where yourre trying to go with it.
If all i 'm getting is crap, then it starts becoming less worth sticking around.
. I still have a world to impact yet.
Sometimes knowing when to walk away is the key to the entire bleeding thing.

[quote ]high volume lumbar spine extensions + muscular endurance + strength training - Google Search

Strength Training: Cervical (Neck), Lumbar (Low Back) Spine from ...2) Lumbar (Low Back) Spine. Effect of Training Frequency and Specificity on Isometric Lumbar Extension Strength. Spine 1990 Volume 15, Number 6 ...
Strength Training: Cervical (Neck), Lumbar (Low Back) Spine from Core Spinal Fitness Systems&#8482 Research - 29k - Cached - Similar pages

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[quote ]
Strength Training: Cervical (Neck), Lumbar (Low Back) Spine from ...Study Outcomes & Clinical Relevance: Both the MedX Lumbar Extension Machine and the Roman Chair are useful tools when assessing lumbar muscular endurance. ...
Strength Training: Cervical (Neck), Lumbar (Low Back) Spine from Core Spinal Fitness Systems&#8482 Research - 29k - Cached - Similar pages

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Result Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next

[end quote]

Duncans Donuts · 08-12-2007, 11:28 PM

are you going to google a bunch of documents? you didn't read any of them

Blooming Lotus · 08-12-2007, 11:51 PM

i'm still reading actually. Even though this is a bread and butter understanding of mine in relation to exercise and peak performance, ..as the title of my masters might elude an interest in,, I would be sincerely prepared to accept all evidence.
I know that most if not all members of IMO dont have that level of qualification nor world class acheivement in performance. I know what popular school of study has said in regard to this over prior yrs, but there have also been more recent studies, right down to eliminating the spot reduction training myth being a myth, measuring alternative variables and producing the exact same results that i have been teaching for over 4 yrs now.
The links that support my arguements with the most strength from those search links, like the ones from the commando and rugby union football observations amongst whatever else is there , dont work for myself neither.

You said yourself that you believe that sometimes pl with experience have more practical knoweledge than alot of scientists anyway.
.. imo , you do nOt have that experiece at that level.. unless you'd like to share some of that with us.

I know I'm not going to convince you and you are only 23 according to your profile so as far as i can tell, you have many yrs to have things unfold to end up conducive to whichever side of the fence you want to sit on.

To be 23 and without a masters or international acheivement of performance and claim to be soo endowed with knowledge of such complicated science and lateral thought is a mighty tall ask. I still have no time or head space to do this with you that being the case, so I am going to leave it with you and trust that you will pursue as you deem appropriate.

Oh, and if you do decide to take a degree and i happen to be your teacher, .. as a masters enables me to do at university level, then I am sure that will be something to look forward to.

i dont know what to say, but these caffine supplements are probably effecting my mood somewhat ( and yes I still think they rate top 10 in efficiacy for their purpose) and I really dont have one for this at this paticular time.

Good luck with your journey .

Blooming tianshi lotus.

08-11-2007, 08:06 PM	#1
rogor1 Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 26	abs question BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com When I do a crunch, my abs look strange. I can see my abs down the center tense up and stand out, I guess those are the rectus abdominus. But on the sides it's like a total cave in. Am I just not hitting the obliques enough? I haven't been training my abs for too long and I've never really targeted them seriously before, but I though I should have at least some amount of muscle tone on the sides. I also do weight training and cardio, as well as keep a clean diet. I've worked out before so I have a decent knowledge of what I should eat and how to workout. I'm just getting back in to the habit lately.
rogor1 Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 26

08-11-2007, 09:57 PM	#2
zonaguy03 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tucson Posts: 423	you ever tried doing planks? side planks are the best. google it for a picture. I've gotten up to 1 minute on my side planks and 2 minutes for reg. planks 3-4 sets every day.
	It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you.

08-11-2007, 10:01 PM	#3
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	Anyone who advises you to do ab exercises every day...is wrong.
	"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

08-11-2007, 10:26 PM	#4
zonaguy03 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tucson Posts: 423	core exercises and i do what i want. trent suzuki, a San Diego legend trainer has taught me well...look him up, and ask him about the Hawk
	It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you.

08-11-2007, 10:46 PM	#5
vortrit Bulk. Cut. Repeat. Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 2,652 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 5	Correct me if I'm wrong someone but aren't planks more for building stability than anything else?
	My Journal!

08-12-2007, 03:32 AM	#6
rogor1 Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 26	This site says: "The abdominal plank is a great exercise for strengthening the transverse abdominus. The transverse abdominus is the deepest layer of abdominal muscle and wraps around the whole midsection. When you contract the abdominals, your waist becomes thinner. This is the action of the transverse. Therefore, a strong transverse abdominus means a smaller, tighter waist." Ab Plank - Abdominal Exercises I didn't know about the plank though. I'll have to give it a shot.
rogor1 Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 26

08-12-2007, 09:51 AM	#8
1morerrrep Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 16 Photos: 5	Abs are like any other muscle in that you have to overload them to build thickness. I use weights for all of my ab exercises. Weighted roman chair sit ups, crunches, leg/knee raises, side bends, twists. I like drop sets - when you hit failure, drop the weight and contiue to rep out. I've gotten excellent results in only a matter of a few months.

08-12-2007, 01:26 PM	#9
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896	Everyone here is talking about working the abs as an endurance muscle fibre. .. be it through planks or via working to failure. Any endurance athlete or trainer knows that nO endurance athlete is working their best performance when they not training those every day. I have no idea duncan why you work so hard to misinform ppl, but even on the pro boards over at musculardevelopment.com, pro B.B. and fitness board that is, if you bother to reead over there and look into the numerous array of links they have in various threads and profiles, and Dave Palumbos site isn't a bad one, you will notice that most ppl that are winning and placing intitle events arre working their abs 3 - 4 x week minimum. If we're talking those with fitness goals and not just B.B. , then that figure goes up again to every single day. . and these are ppl acheiving at world class levels. Here's what Frank Shamrock has to say about it. [quote TESTOSTERONE NATION ] T: How does the weight training program breakdown? FS: We cycle on and off different schedules and routines for weight training. However, there's one basic program that we follow and that's the "three and three" method. We'll work the whole body in three days during a one-week period. We do a push-pull system. This breaks down to chest, triceps, neck, and forearms on Monday. Then we take a day off and do legs and shoulders on Wednesday. On Friday, we do back, biceps, and abdominals. This one seems to work best for me and I've tried everything. For my athletes, we experiment to find what works best for them. Weight training for us becomes about fourth on the list of priorities when preparing for a fight. Strength is comparative when you're doing this stuff. Strength and speed in certain areas is what you really need. T: Is muscular endurance more important than brute strength for fighters? FS: It is, but you still need brute strength. If you're thinking mechanics, you still need a nice, fully developed muscle that'll expand and contract very quickly so you can blast and explode through whatever you're doing. If your muscle is full and healthy it'll also contract quickly. T: Do you ever do heavy weight training with low reps or is it mainly higher reps? FS: We do more in the middle, three sets with three exercises, eight to twelve reps per muscle. T: I want to get into your exercise and nutrition regimen and how you train your fighters. I know you practice a great deal of techniques such as visualization, meditation, breathing, and flexibility, but how do you manage all of this stuff and does one technique take precedence at any given time? FS: One thing does take precedence over other things. It's just a natural progression as you're going and whatever you're focusing on. For the new guys, we have to condition their bodies so they can withstand the trauma of MMA, so we have them doing high repetition calisthenics. We build their tendons and their bodies up to the point where they can use their bodyweight a lot of times. In training a professional athlete, we do three to four days of weights a week. We work the entire body in one week. We do two days of plyometrics, five days of cardio, two days of sparring, two days of wrestling, and two days of technique. [end quote] Some of these boys, Message Board - Main Forum, Topic 'Evolution 6 Photos & Result ' , have some of the most amazing functional abdominals i have ever seen. Having trained with some of them and with the world heavy weight, I can also guarantee you that they are nOt training those abs 2-3-4 x week. There are better photos around taken of them all after this set where particulary Wanye Parr ( JWP) ripps some of the meanest abs you could imagine, funnily enough after I was around that circuit and eying his wife off for a few rounds with my own ab regime as fundamental, and directly prior to his solidification of his status in world class supremacy of the sport at any weight division he enters at. . and Bruce Mcfie and undefeated world champion Ian Jacobs MySpace.com - INTEGRATED MARTIAL ARTS - 34 - Male - AU - www.myspace.com/integratedmixemartialarts whom i trained and spoke shop with and whom wanted to employ me to train his fighters in that respective order. Those boys are in there every day and clocking up to 8 hrs on average at every level past lightweight and junior world champion who sits on 3 hrs for as many days. I understand that this is a body building forum, so here's Arnold Schwarzeneggas regime. [quote Arnold Schwarzenegger Bodybuilding Pics, Pictures, Photos - Arnold Schwarzenegger Bodybuilding Workout ] Monday & Thursday CHEST BACK ABS Bench Presses Chinups (4 sets until failure) Leg Raises Incline Presses Bent-over Rows Pullovers Deadlifts (3 sets - 10,6,4) Tuesday & Friday SHOULDERS ARMS FOREARMS Clean & Press Barbell Curls Wrist Curls Lateral Raises Seated Dumbell Curls Reverse w.Curls Heavy Upright Rows Narrow-grip Press ABS Push Presses Barbell Tricep Extension Incline Situps Wednesday & Saturday THIGHS CALVES LOWER BACK ABS Squats Standing Calf Raises Straight Leg Deadlifts Leg Raises Lunges Leg Curls * Perform 5 sets - 8 to 12 reps for each movement. * For ab exercises, do 5 sets of 25 reps each. [quote] Tell Arnie he was wrong and it wont help a body builder to work their abs every day??? Blooming tianshi lotus.
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896

08-12-2007, 07:55 PM	#10
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896	One more jussst to drive my point hm. [quote 3WEEEKS OUT WORKOUT BY DAVE AND MR.G - Muscular Development Forums ] 3WEEEKS OUT WORKOUT BY DAVE AND MR.G ABS ARE DONE 5 DAYS A WEEK THE ORDER OF TRAINING THE BODYPARTS IS THESAME FOR EVERYONE DAY 1 CHEST 1)INCLINE SMITH MACHINE PRESSES 2 SETS 8-10 REPS 2)FLAT BENCH DUMBELL PRESSES/ 1 SUPER SET 8-10 REPS 3)PLATE LOADED INCLINE CHEST PRESS 2SETS 6-8 REPS 4)FLY MACHINE 8-10 REPS 2 SETS CALFS SEATED CALF RAISE 1 SET 15 SEATED SINGLE TOE PRESSES 15 REPS EACH LEG ABS 2 SETS CRUNCHES 50 REPS 2 SETS OF SIDE CRUNCHES 20 REPS 2 SETS OF LEG RAISES 50 REPS EACH DAY 2 ARMS/CALFS /ABS SINGLE ARM BICEP CURLS WITH CABLES/2 SETS 8-10 REPS SINGLE ARM HAMMER CURLS WITH CABELS/2 SETS 8-10 REPS CONCETRATIN CURLS DUMBELL 1-2 SETS 8-10 REPS TRICEPS SINGLE ARM PUSH DOWNS 8 REPS 2 SETS SINGLE ARM REVERSE PUSH DOWNS 10 REPS 2 SETS SINGLE ARM CABLE FRENCH PRESSES 8 REPS 2 SETS SEATED CALF RAISES 15 REPS/1SET SEATED ONE LEG CALF EXTESIONS 15 REPS ON EACH CALF/1 SET ABS 2 SETS 50 CRUNCHES 2 SETS OF 20 SIDE CRUNCHES 2 SETS OF 50 LEGS RAISES HAVE FUN AND ENJOY YOUR WORKOUT -------------------- DAY 3 BACK USE WRIST WRAPS 1)LAT PULLDOWNS 2 SETS 8-10 REPS TO FRONT 2)BENT OVER BARBELL ROWS REVERSE GRIP 2 SETS 8-10 REPS 3)ONE ARM DUMBELL ROWS 1 SET 10 REPS 4)SEATED ONE ARM PRONE ROWS 9 REPS 5)HYPEREXTENSIONS 1 SET 15 REPS ABS 2 SETS 50 CRUNCHES 2 SETS 20 SIDE CRUNCHES 2 SETS 50 LEG RAISES --------------- DAY4 SHOULDERS 1)FRONT LATERAL CABLE RAISES 2 SETS 10 REPS 2)SHOULDER PRESSES 2 SETS 8 REPS 3)ONE ARM SIDE LATERAL RAISES 2 SETS 10 REPS 4)REAR DELT LATERAL RAISES 2 SETS 10 REPS 5)SHRUGS 1 SET 15 REPS CALFS 1SET 15 REPS SEATED 1 SET SINGLE LEG TOE RAISES 15 REPS ----------- DAY 5 LEGS 1)ABDUCTOR 1 SET 15/ADDUCTOR 1 SET OF 15 2)SQUAT OR SQUAT MACHINE 2 SETS 8-10 ALL THE WAY DOWN 3)LEG SLED MACHINE 2 SETS 8 REPS 4)LEG EXTENSION 2 SETS 8-10 REPS 5)LEG CURLS 2 SETS 8-10 REPS Day 1 and 2 you do both calves and abs and then on day 3 just abs, day 4 just calves, right? If your weak parts are legs and back would you put that at the beginning of the week? [end quote] Good luck to you Duncan. I hope you can bench that ego sometime and listen absorb and learn something or find success with what you're doing as is. No more from me. See yas. Blooming tianshi lotus.
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896

08-12-2007, 08:10 PM	#11
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,232	huh
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

08-12-2007, 08:17 PM	#12
Twigz Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 407 Photos: 4	ADHD at its finest.
	ILLEGITIMIS CON CARBORUNDUM!! (don't let the bastards grind you down) I love vegetarians, they're a great source of lean protien!

08-12-2007, 09:04 PM	#15
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 7,446 Photos: 3	Jesus christ. Ive never read anyone more deserving of ignore. I do some sort of core every day I workout. It varies a shitload and were talking mabe 4 days a week? Low volume.
	6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 360 (11/29) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal

08-12-2007, 09:08 PM	#16
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,232	DD- Aside from it being utter nonsense, I will go on to say this. I typically hold the sports science institutions in Australia to very high standards. Lots of great research comes out of there, as well as excellent articles and information regarding periodization, sports enhancement, sports nutrition, etc.....Lotus, if you are honestly working towards a high level degree at one of these institutions and this is your idea of a scientific rebuttle, then my feeling towards those programs as a whole has just gone down the shitter.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

08-12-2007, 09:24 PM	#17
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	There is a great, great deal of research to demonstrate that more exercise for muscles (like the muscles that extend the lumbar spine) respond much better to lower volume training because of what could only be attributed to "overuse atrophy" - and if you disagree, fine, but (being mostly fast twitch muscle fiber in most of my primary muscle groups) the strongest my "core" ever was with a single set of weighted sit-ups twice a week. My core "stabilization" was in perfect order because of deadlifts and squats and sprinting for football. And my endurance was fantastic.
	"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

08-12-2007, 10:23 PM	#19
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896	Are you suure that when we hear something adamant that clashes with something we think we already know, we miight not want to go back and an reinvestigate? @). Here. Iiii willll do your hmwk for you. P- Funk. I have nothing to say to you. i am nOt mother theresa and i have other shit to do than sit around and argue with some little fuckwit who rallys ppl against good sense. I don't know who you think i am and i dont know where yourre trying to go with it. If all i 'm getting is crap, then it starts becoming less worth sticking around. . I still have a world to impact yet. Sometimes knowing when to walk away is the key to the entire bleeding thing. [quote ]high volume lumbar spine extensions + muscular endurance + strength training - Google Search Strength Training: Cervical (Neck), Lumbar (Low Back) Spine from ...2) Lumbar (Low Back) Spine. Effect of Training Frequency and Specificity on Isometric Lumbar Extension Strength. Spine 1990 Volume 15, Number 6 ... Strength Training: Cervical (Neck), Lumbar (Low Back) Spine from Core Spinal Fitness Systems&#8482 Research - 29k - Cached - Similar pages [PDF] Strength training for triathlon.pubFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML Improved muscular strength, endurance and power. ... Low intensity, high volume. Can do more than one exercise for main target muscles ... http://www.parksidesportsphysio.com....0triathlon.pdf - Similar pages Exercising & Weight Training At Any Age(1993) examined the effect of 10 weeks of lumbar extension exercise on patients with .... (1993) compared the effect of endurance and strength training on ... Exercising & Weight Training At Any Age - 26k - Cached - Similar pages Strength Training - Tucker Center - University of MinnesotaIn the lumbar spine and femoral neck, the training group showed no ..... The strength training consisted of high resistance, high volume exercises which ... Strength Training - Tucker Center - University of Minnesota - 68k - Cached - Similar pages Strength Training Considerations for Special Operations CommandosAdditionally, during training periods in which a high volume of high/low ... local muscular endurance, relative strength); however, bodyweight alone is not ... http://www.powerdevelopmentinc.com/a...commandos.html - 14k - Cached - Similar pages [PDF] During the past thirty or so years, the popularity of weight ...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML Key Words: Weight training, Bodybuilding, Power, Muscular endurance, Nautilus, ...... and detraining on lumbar extension strength. SPINE 1992;17:1497-1501. ... www.asep.org/files/Smith.pdf - Similar pages The Nutrispec Letter 05-05Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 1991. Effect of reduced training frequency and de-training on lumbar extension strength. Spine, 1992. ... The Nutrispec Letter 05-05 - 16k - Cached - Similar pages [PDF] Resistance Training for HealthFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML The effects of resistance/strength training on muscular strength and endurance (muscle mass .... Effects of isolated lumbar extension resistance training on ... www.fitness.gov/resistance.pdf - Similar pages Strength Training for Women : Life Fitness : Commercial1995), researchers reported a 2 to 3 percent increase in lumbar spine .... for improving muscular strength and muscular endurance, eight to 12 reps per set ... us.commercial.lifefitness.com/content.cfm/strengthtrainingforwomen_1 - 44k - Cached - Similar pages [PDF] Strength Training for Rugby Union: The General Preparation PhaseFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML outcome (i.e., muscular endurance, hypertrophy, maximal strength, or power ... produced through high volume, low intensity training, for example 3–5 sets of ... http://www.strengthandconditioning.o...%20General%20P... - Similar pages [quote ] Strength Training: Cervical (Neck), Lumbar (Low Back) Spine from ...Study Outcomes & Clinical Relevance: Both the MedX Lumbar Extension Machine and the Roman Chair are useful tools when assessing lumbar muscular endurance. ... Strength Training: Cervical (Neck), Lumbar (Low Back) Spine from Core Spinal Fitness Systems&#8482 Research - 29k - Cached - Similar pages [PDF] Strength training for triathlon.pubFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML Improved muscular strength, endurance and power. ... Low intensity, high volume. Can do more than one exercise for main target muscles ... http://www.parksidesportsphysio.com....0triathlon.pdf - Similar pages [PDF] Quantitative Assessment of Lumbar Paraspinal Muscle EnduranceFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat tified lumbar paraspinal muscular endurance. Participants were .... full range-of-motion isometric lumbar extension strength. Spine. 1990;15:. 289–294. http://www.nata.org/jat/readers/arch...38-03-0259.pdf - Similar pages Spine - Fulltext: Volume 27(16) August 15, 2002 p 1772-1777 Back ...Large gains in lumbar extension torque production have been reported after 12 ..... extension exercises are better suited to develop back muscular endurance ... Spine - userLogin... - Similar pages Exercising & Weight Training At Any Age(1993) examined the effect of 10 weeks of lumbar extension exercise on .... of resistance/strength training on muscular strength and endurance (muscle mass) ... Exercising & Weight Training At Any Age - 26k - Cached - Similar pages The Nutrispec Letter 05-05Single vs. multiple set dynamic and isometric lumbar extension strength. Spine Rehabilitation, 1993. Effect of frequency and volume of resistance on ... The Nutrispec Letter 05-05 - 16k - Cached - Similar pages Blackwell Synergy - Scand J Med Sci Sports, Volume 12 Issue 2 Page ...This basis is supported by the fact that the lumbar spine rested on a wooden ..... The ultimate goal is that by increasing muscular endurance the patient ... Blackwell Synergy - Scand J Med Sci Sports, Volume 12 Issue 2 Page 81-89, April 2002 (Article Abstract) - Similar pages Blackwell Synergy - Eur Respir J, Volume 14 Issue 3 Page 529Issue ...Thoracic spine extension and flexion is defined as the angular displacement .... muscle strength and cardiovascular endurance [ 34]. Furthermore, high - ... Blackwell Synergy - Eur Respir J, Volume 14 Issue 3 Page 529-533, September 1999 (Article Abstract) - Similar pages [PDF] During the past thirty or so years, the popularity of weight ...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML different combinations of sets and repetitions on muscular endurance (measured by .... and detraining on lumbar extension strength. SPINE 1992;17:1497-1501. ... www.asep.org/files/Smith.pdf - Similar pages American Journal of Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation - Fulltext ...Therefore, endurance is much more important than absolute muscle strength ..... Farfan HF: Muscular mechanism of the lumbar spine and the position of power ... American Journal of Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation - userLogin... - Similar pages Result Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next [end quote]
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896

08-12-2007, 11:28 PM	#20
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	are you going to google a bunch of documents? you didn't read any of them
	"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

08-12-2007, 11:51 PM	#21
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896	i'm still reading actually. Even though this is a bread and butter understanding of mine in relation to exercise and peak performance, ..as the title of my masters might elude an interest in,, I would be sincerely prepared to accept all evidence. I know that most if not all members of IMO dont have that level of qualification nor world class acheivement in performance. I know what popular school of study has said in regard to this over prior yrs, but there have also been more recent studies, right down to eliminating the spot reduction training myth being a myth, measuring alternative variables and producing the exact same results that i have been teaching for over 4 yrs now. The links that support my arguements with the most strength from those search links, like the ones from the commando and rugby union football observations amongst whatever else is there , dont work for myself neither. You said yourself that you believe that sometimes pl with experience have more practical knoweledge than alot of scientists anyway. .. imo , you do nOt have that experiece at that level.. unless you'd like to share some of that with us. I know I'm not going to convince you and you are only 23 according to your profile so as far as i can tell, you have many yrs to have things unfold to end up conducive to whichever side of the fence you want to sit on. To be 23 and without a masters or international acheivement of performance and claim to be soo endowed with knowledge of such complicated science and lateral thought is a mighty tall ask. I still have no time or head space to do this with you that being the case, so I am going to leave it with you and trust that you will pursue as you deem appropriate. Oh, and if you do decide to take a degree and i happen to be your teacher, .. as a masters enables me to do at university level, then I am sure that will be something to look forward to. i dont know what to say, but these caffine supplements are probably effecting my mood somewhat ( and yes I still think they rate top 10 in efficiacy for their purpose) and I really dont have one for this at this paticular time. Good luck with your journey . Blooming tianshi lotus.
Blooming Lotus Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 896

08-13-2007, 12:52 AM	#22
vortrit Bulk. Cut. Repeat. Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 2,652 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 5