Thoughts on this comment appreciated

britlifter · 08-25-2007, 01:45 AM

I was reading this article here by Dr. Clay Hyght:

TESTOSTERONE NATION - 12 Truths About Bodybuilding Training

And came across point number 9, here it is in quote.

9) Ditch Total Body Training

I'm well aware of the plethora of benefits of Total Body Training (TBT), and I'll agree that you can build a very good body with it. In fact, I train some of my clients with TBT. With that being said, I simply don't feel that TBT can take your physique to its ultimate potential.

Now, by "ultimate potential" I'm speaking of size and definition — a physique that would win a local bodybuilding or even Figure show. I have no studies, but tons of anecdotal evidence to back this up.

You've got to hit a muscle with a fairly high number of sets or crazy intensity to get maximum hypertrophy. In other words, you need to induce a lot of micro-trauma to the muscle. It's simply not feasible to do that to more than two or three muscle groups per day.

So if throwing things or people is your forte, then rock on with TBT. If you wanna have a stage-worthy physique, then split your body into groups. As for anecdotal evidence, not one pro or top amateur bodybuilder trains their whole body at one time. While I'm not one to blindly follow others, you've got to admit that that's some pretty convincing anecdotal evidence.

^^^ mmm.. Im not so sure i completly agree with this, I mean some ppl even advanced still responed better to lower volume.. What say you fellow lifters?

Witchblade · 08-25-2007, 01:51 PM

Agreed 80%. If you're only interested in attaining as much muscle mass as possible, I think most of your programs should be splits. This is assuming you've had years of weight lifting experience.

MeatZatk · 08-25-2007, 02:27 PM

I agree with that statement. He wasn't saying that you couldn't build a great physique with TBT, he's just saying that you couldn't expect to go out and win comps with it.

DanOz · 08-28-2007, 12:02 AM

I have no idea about winning comps, but if that is not your goal, whatever suits you personally is my opinion. I have done both forms, and had good results from both forms. I also think whether you are a natural trainer or not may affect which path you take.

**CowPimp** · 08-28-2007, 12:08 AM

I think it's hard to say. Most bodybuilders these days don't use full body programs, so there aren't a lot of case studies to back up the opinion that full body programs are a viable option for competitive bodybuilders. Well, save for old school bodybuilders who lifted before anabolic drugs became such a big part of bodybuilding.

Just try both types of workouts, or even switch between them. You don't have to stay with one or the other. I haven't done a split in a while, but I would certainly do one again; if nothing else, variety keeps things interesting.

Hoglander · 08-28-2007, 12:36 AM

In simplest terms.... Whatever program that can get you to give the intensity needed is the one. Some can't do the full body with high intensity. Others can do it in only upper and lower split. Other need roids and/or a total body dissection because momma doesn't love them or whatever. Others read to much and get confused and don't know what the fuck they are doing, they overtrain. Bottom line is you can only gain so much in a week and it goes where the intensity is, IMHO.

Yanick · 08-28-2007, 08:43 AM

I can somewhat agree, but he is making a very big assumption in that microtrauma is what causes hypertrophy. No one yet knows what really causes hypertrophy so telling people that high volume=microtrauma=hypertrophy, while not wrong, is too big of an assumption to make.

I also want to re-iterate CP's comment on variety. This dude seems to be speaking in absolutes, all bb'ers use splits, no bb'er can win a comp with a full body routine etc. Nothing is so black and white, especially with regards to hypertrophy.

XFatMan · 08-29-2007, 02:05 PM

I often read bodybuilding articles. Sometimes I wish people could forget the science a little bit and go back to the basics. After all, if you play football, you don't need to read up on cows from Argentina, how they lived and what they ate, just because it's probably where the leather for the ball came from. And saying that Total Body Training is useless is like saying that French cows are worse than Irish cows, or that German cows are useless. If science can't answer a question and prove it, then I won't believe it. Anybody can throw in an answer on the corresponding topic just because he or she knows how to write proper English, but that doesn't mean you - or I - have to buy it.

08-25-2007, 01:45 AM	#1
britlifter Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Great Britain Posts: 40	Thoughts on this comment appreciated BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com I was reading this article here by Dr. Clay Hyght: TESTOSTERONE NATION - 12 Truths About Bodybuilding Training And came across point number 9, here it is in quote. 9) Ditch Total Body Training I'm well aware of the plethora of benefits of Total Body Training (TBT), and I'll agree that you can build a very good body with it. In fact, I train some of my clients with TBT. With that being said, I simply don't feel that TBT can take your physique to its ultimate potential. Now, by "ultimate potential" I'm speaking of size and definition — a physique that would win a local bodybuilding or even Figure show. I have no studies, but tons of anecdotal evidence to back this up. You've got to hit a muscle with a fairly high number of sets or crazy intensity to get maximum hypertrophy. In other words, you need to induce a lot of micro-trauma to the muscle. It's simply not feasible to do that to more than two or three muscle groups per day. So if throwing things or people is your forte, then rock on with TBT. If you wanna have a stage-worthy physique, then split your body into groups. As for anecdotal evidence, not one pro or top amateur bodybuilder trains their whole body at one time. While I'm not one to blindly follow others, you've got to admit that that's some pretty convincing anecdotal evidence. ^^^ mmm.. Im not so sure i completly agree with this, I mean some ppl even advanced still responed better to lower volume.. What say you fellow lifters?

08-25-2007, 01:51 PM	#2
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,148 Photos: 2	Agreed 80%. If you're only interested in attaining as much muscle mass as possible, I think most of your programs should be splits. This is assuming you've had years of weight lifting experience.
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08-25-2007, 02:27 PM	#3
MeatZatk Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 926 Photos: 5	I agree with that statement. He wasn't saying that you couldn't build a great physique with TBT, he's just saying that you couldn't expect to go out and win comps with it.
	Define Definition

08-28-2007, 12:08 AM	#5
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,400	I think it's hard to say. Most bodybuilders these days don't use full body programs, so there aren't a lot of case studies to back up the opinion that full body programs are a viable option for competitive bodybuilders. Well, save for old school bodybuilders who lifted before anabolic drugs became such a big part of bodybuilding. Just try both types of workouts, or even switch between them. You don't have to stay with one or the other. I haven't done a split in a while, but I would certainly do one again; if nothing else, variety keeps things interesting.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

08-28-2007, 08:43 AM	#7
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	I can somewhat agree, but he is making a very big assumption in that microtrauma is what causes hypertrophy. No one yet knows what really causes hypertrophy so telling people that high volume=microtrauma=hypertrophy, while not wrong, is too big of an assumption to make. I also want to re-iterate CP's comment on variety. This dude seems to be speaking in absolutes, all bb'ers use splits, no bb'er can win a comp with a full body routine etc. Nothing is so black and white, especially with regards to hypertrophy.
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	"...we have to remember that training is a complicated dance of stimuli and response. Our goal is to understand how to manipulate the stimuli in order to evoke the responses we desire." -Nathan J. Polenchek

08-28-2007, 12:02 AM	#4
DanOz Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 56	I have no idea about winning comps, but if that is not your goal, whatever suits you personally is my opinion. I have done both forms, and had good results from both forms. I also think whether you are a natural trainer or not may affect which path you take.

08-28-2007, 12:36 AM	#6
Hoglander Cleaner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 980 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 10	In simplest terms.... Whatever program that can get you to give the intensity needed is the one. Some can't do the full body with high intensity. Others can do it in only upper and lower split. Other need roids and/or a total body dissection because momma doesn't love them or whatever. Others read to much and get confused and don't know what the fuck they are doing, they overtrain. Bottom line is you can only gain so much in a week and it goes where the intensity is, IMHO.

08-29-2007, 02:05 PM	#8
XFatMan Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 244	I often read bodybuilding articles. Sometimes I wish people could forget the science a little bit and go back to the basics. After all, if you play football, you don't need to read up on cows from Argentina, how they lived and what they ate, just because it's probably where the leather for the ball came from. And saying that Total Body Training is useless is like saying that French cows are worse than Irish cows, or that German cows are useless. If science can't answer a question and prove it, then I won't believe it. Anybody can throw in an answer on the corresponding topic just because he or she knows how to write proper English, but that doesn't mean you - or I - have to buy it.
XFatMan Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 244	Goal: < 15% Body Fat by June 30, 2008 December 30, 2007: Body Weight: 75.8 Kg / 174.3 lbs Body Fat Percentage: 21.9% Current (January 13, 2008): Body Weight 75.7 Kg / 174.0 lbs Body Fat Percentage: 21.4%

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