Shoulders affecting pecs?

Skyliner · 06-19-2002, 08:14 AM

Can someone tell me, to what extend does Dumbbell Shoulder Presses and Lateral Raises work on our Pecs? Most importantly, should I still train my shoulders nonetheless if my Pecs are still sore? I train Chest on Monday and Delts on Friday.

Robboe · 06-19-2002, 08:55 AM

Overhead presses of any kind require the use of the pec minor (which is NOT the "upper chest") for stabilisation, but nothing that's gonna cause great hypertrophy.

Lateral raises focus most on the medial head of the deltoid, but i'm sure the pecs are used in some form or other in assistance, but again, nothing that will really cause much hypertrophy.

The best benefit you'll get for your chest from shoulder movements is the increased shoulder strength which can result in a bigger bench. Provididng you're not a total delt-bencher then this should result in better gains for your chest via increased benching weight.

As a generalisation, more weight moving = bigger muscles. Very generalised though! Just don't use it as an excuse to throw more weight on the bar when you're not ready to shift it in a controlled fashion with good form.

Yanks20 · 06-19-2002, 09:19 AM

good post TCD!

Scotty the Body · 06-19-2002, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Overhead presses of any kind require the use of the pec minor (which is NOT the "upper chest")

Hahahaha, thought I'd get ya there TCD!!

I don't think you'll have any trouble doing chest monday and delts friday.

ponyboy · 06-19-2002, 12:57 PM

Shoulder exercises, especially lateral raises will also help train your rotator cuff to a certain extent, which will also help with your chest exercises, like TCD said. It will also make you less susceptible to injury when doing heavy chest exercises.

**gopro** · 06-19-2002, 05:17 PM

I will refrain from making any sort of comment about TCD's post as I REFUSE to argue with him about the pecs anymore, however, yes, you can still train the delts when the pecs are sore. Just make sure all overhead presses remain just that...overhead presses! I see some guys in the gym lean back so much during this exercise that they turn it into an incline press!

You may also wish to pre-exaust the delts with side and rear laterals before going to presses to better feel the delts without the interference of the chest. Or, if your chest is just crazy sore, you can forgo presses and just use all lateral movements and upright rows to work your delts.

Finally, you can train chest and delts on the same day like I do right now...

**P-funk** · 01-31-2003, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Finally, you can train chest and delts on the same day like I do right now...

I was wondering, if you train your chest and delts on the same day (assuming that you hit chest first and shoulders second) do you even bother doing any overhead press? If so don't you find it difficult to lift heavy on the overhead presses?

cornfed · 01-31-2003, 11:52 AM

I've tried the same day thing and it's horrible, IMO

No sttrength left for a good delt routine...

But I do hit chest on Mon and delts on Tues and it's been a great thing, so call me fuqqin' insane

Dr. Pain · 01-31-2003, 12:17 PM

I'm not going to argue either...LOL

But let's not overlook the clavicular head of the pectoralis major either

DP

cornfed · 01-31-2003, 12:21 PM

Fuqqing upper chest, baby

**P-funk** · 01-31-2003, 01:47 PM

Quote:

I'm not going to argue either...LOL

Quote:

But let's not overlook the clavicular head of the pectoralis major either

The only reason I asked was because I am thinking of changing my split around for some variety. Over the years I have tried a lot of different splits (chest alone, chest w/bi's, chest w/tri's etc.). But I have never done chest with delts. I saw that gopro does it and I was wondering about doing overhead presses after hitting chest. Just curious DP, what training split are you currently using?

Dr. Pain · 01-31-2003, 04:12 PM

I change between

Legs/Calves
Chest and abs
Back
OFF
Shoulders
Arms aznd abs
Off

and

Chest
Back and Abs
Off
Legs/Calves
Shoulders
Arms and abs
Off

DP

askjoe · 01-31-2003, 08:15 PM

Chest and shoulders are highly integrated muscles - I'd try to work them the same day that way you avoid overtraining. A good rule of thumb to follow is to do all your "push" muscles one day; all your "pull" muscles the next; and leave your legs all to the last day. I feel this is the best way to workout because it avoids overtraining.

Askjoemuscle

kanun · 02-01-2003, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by askjoe
Chest and shoulders are highly integrated muscles - I'd try to work them the same day that way you avoid overtraining. A good rule of thumb to follow is to do all your "push" muscles one day; all your "pull" muscles the next; and leave your legs all to the last day. I feel this is the best way to workout because it avoids overtraining.

Ditto

**gopro** · 02-02-2003, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by P-funk
I was wondering, if you train your chest and delts on the same day (assuming that you hit chest first and shoulders second) do you even bother doing any overhead press? If so don't you find it difficult to lift heavy on the overhead presses?

Most of the time I DO hit chest and delts on the same day. I do not even bother with overhead presses and just concentrate on the medial and posterior heads. I utilize lateral of various types and upright rows. I feel tha the anterior head is hit so hard with chest exercises, that it rarely needs any more attention. Sine I started doing this there has been a marked level of improvement in both the size and shape of my delts.

**P-funk** · 02-02-2003, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Most of the time I DO hit chest and delts on the same day. I do not even bother with overhead presses and just concentrate on the medial and posterior heads. I utilize lateral of various types and upright rows. I feel tha the anterior head is hit so hard with chest exercises, that it rarely needs any more attention. Sine I started doing this there has been a marked level of improvement in both the size and shape of my delts

Thanks GP. I was waiting for you to chime in on this one.

**gopro** · 02-03-2003, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by P-funk
Thanks GP. I was waiting for you to chime in on this one.

06-19-2002, 08:14 AM	#1
Skyliner Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Whisper in the Wind Posts: 265	Shoulders affecting pecs? Can someone tell me, to what extend does Dumbbell Shoulder Presses and Lateral Raises work on our Pecs? Most importantly, should I still train my shoulders nonetheless if my Pecs are still sore? I train Chest on Monday and Delts on Friday.
	Keep on going...

06-19-2002, 08:55 AM	#2
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,141	Overhead presses of any kind require the use of the pec minor (which is NOT the "upper chest") for stabilisation, but nothing that's gonna cause great hypertrophy. Lateral raises focus most on the medial head of the deltoid, but i'm sure the pecs are used in some form or other in assistance, but again, nothing that will really cause much hypertrophy. The best benefit you'll get for your chest from shoulder movements is the increased shoulder strength which can result in a bigger bench. Provididng you're not a total delt-bencher then this should result in better gains for your chest via increased benching weight. As a generalisation, more weight moving = bigger muscles. Very generalised though! Just don't use it as an excuse to throw more weight on the bar when you're not ready to shift it in a controlled fashion with good form.
	Being held down by The Man

06-19-2002, 05:17 PM	#6
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,521	I will refrain from making any sort of comment about TCD's post as I REFUSE to argue with him about the pecs anymore, however, yes, you can still train the delts when the pecs are sore. Just make sure all overhead presses remain just that...overhead presses! I see some guys in the gym lean back so much during this exercise that they turn it into an incline press! You may also wish to pre-exaust the delts with side and rear laterals before going to presses to better feel the delts without the interference of the chest. Or, if your chest is just crazy sore, you can forgo presses and just use all lateral movements and upright rows to work your delts. Finally, you can train chest and delts on the same day like I do right now...
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. GOLIATH LABS Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

01-31-2003, 11:52 AM	#8
cornfed Sweet 'lil Innocent Mod Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: serenity now insanity later Posts: 1,802	I've tried the same day thing and it's horrible, IMO No sttrength left for a good delt routine... But I do hit chest on Mon and delts on Tues and it's been a great thing, so call me fuqqin' insane
	- "If I ever run into Dave Grohl, I'm gonna kick his fuqqin' ass... because he sucks and he wrote this cheese-dick song for Ozzy that I have to fuqqin' play on and I'll never forgive him for that. Foo Fighters is a fuqqin' candy-ass girl band but you've got that mother-fuqqer submitting songs [for the album], and those douchebags from the Offspring, too." "...Dave Grohl? Fuq Dave Grohl! ...you're getting this guy to write songs for Ozzy? Just because he played drums for fuqqing Sh!tvana?" --- Zakk Wylde --- ---Dimebag Darrel RIP---

01-31-2003, 12:21 PM	#10
cornfed Sweet 'lil Innocent Mod Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: serenity now insanity later Posts: 1,802	Fuqqing upper chest, baby
	- "If I ever run into Dave Grohl, I'm gonna kick his fuqqin' ass... because he sucks and he wrote this cheese-dick song for Ozzy that I have to fuqqin' play on and I'll never forgive him for that. Foo Fighters is a fuqqin' candy-ass girl band but you've got that mother-fuqqer submitting songs [for the album], and those douchebags from the Offspring, too." "...Dave Grohl? Fuq Dave Grohl! ...you're getting this guy to write songs for Ozzy? Just because he played drums for fuqqing Sh!tvana?" --- Zakk Wylde --- ---Dimebag Darrel RIP---

06-19-2002, 09:19 AM	#3
Yanks20 Yanks Rule! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New York Posts: 243	good post TCD!

06-19-2002, 12:57 PM	#5
ponyboy Training Trainer Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Running around somewhere Posts: 2,608 Photos: 1	Shoulder exercises, especially lateral raises will also help train your rotator cuff to a certain extent, which will also help with your chest exercises, like TCD said. It will also make you less susceptible to injury when doing heavy chest exercises.

01-31-2003, 12:17 PM	#9
Dr. Pain Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Get the Duct Tape...I'm Ripped Again! Posts: 11,239	I'm not going to argue either...LOL But let's not overlook the clavicular head of the pectoralis major either DP

01-31-2003, 04:12 PM	#12
Dr. Pain Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Get the Duct Tape...I'm Ripped Again! Posts: 11,239	I change between Legs/Calves Chest and abs Back OFF Shoulders Arms aznd abs Off and Chest Back and Abs Off Legs/Calves Shoulders Arms and abs Off DP

01-31-2003, 08:15 PM	#13
askjoe Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 34	Chest and shoulders are highly integrated muscles - I'd try to work them the same day that way you avoid overtraining. A good rule of thumb to follow is to do all your "push" muscles one day; all your "pull" muscles the next; and leave your legs all to the last day. I feel this is the best way to workout because it avoids overtraining. Askjoemuscle
askjoe Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 34	www.onelastrep.com

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