importance of negatives

nismo80 · 10-01-2007, 08:42 PM

are eccentric lifts best as a certain workout, or just a variation of a lift, or important to focus on every rep?

I have to think that only ever focusing on the push part of say Bench Press, you're missing out on strength and possible size by skipping the negatives.

How far should one go? Leave your ego at the door and start all over: reduce the weight and focus on the lowering while also pressing....

or do it on a separate day. Have spotters to lift it for you and focus on the negative, keeping it as a negative only exercise.

Or does all this depend on your goals?

Duncans Donuts · 10-01-2007, 08:54 PM

the theoretical basis of why negative exercise is so beneficial (and so demanding) was basically developed by Arthur Jones. I integrate negative only or negative accentuated exercise into my client routines frequently and it is clearly the most efficient (time in, results out) exercise that can be performed.

It also creates a lot of physical trauma to the tendons and muscles, so should be a part of an EXTREMELY low volume routine when applying it exclusively.

**P-funk** · 10-01-2007, 09:48 PM

don't have enough time to reply fully to this thread right now.

clif notes version.....negatives have some very good application. don't overlook them!

danzik17 · 10-01-2007, 10:07 PM

DD or funk: Would it be extremely beneficial to throw in a negative only/negative focus workout once in a while?

I definitely do focus on the negative in normal lifts more than the average lifter does, but would it be beneficial to say go very heavy one day with a spotter, maybe close to your 1 or 2RM, and just do excruciatingly slow negatives while getting spotted on the concentric?

I know that you can support more weight on the eccentric than the concentric, which is why I figured go very heavy with a spotter.

Would love to give that a try - would be a nice change from my normal superset workouts.

danzik17 · 10-01-2007, 10:09 PM

Especially on my pulling days I abuse eccentrics - when I can't do a single more pullup with full ROM, I pull myself up as high as I can and just hold there. When I can't hold that anymore, I very slowly lower myself. At that point I'm done.

**CowPimp** · 10-01-2007, 10:12 PM

That's a loaded question, but here are my thoughts:

If you are talking about supramaximal lifting in the form of negatives that go beyond your 1RM, then I do believe this type of training has it's place. However, in an experienced lifter capable of utilizing a lot of the resources of their nervous system, I would use this type of training infrequently. It is seriously demanding on the body.

If you are talking about accentuating the negative, i.e., lowering the weight slower than your "natural tempo," then this also can be applied with good results. Although I have seen some question this, it is generally accepted that the negative portion of the lift has more to do with hypertrophy than the positive portion of the lift. As well, some studies suggest that eccentric muscle contraction is regulated by completely different neural and metabolic processes relative to other types of muscle contraction. Therefore, training this quality would seem to be important.

Also, from a practical standpoint, I think slow negatives are great for getting someone to really groove their form on a given lift. I use slower negatives and positional isometrics with various lifts from time to time for a variety of reasons with my clients. Another good practical application is creating overload in a bodyweight maneuver, or exercise that is otherwise hard to progress without pushing the number of repetitions well into endurance territory.

nismo80 · 10-01-2007, 10:34 PM

I just think that for the most part they are forgotten. I saw one routine to try sometimes (as cowpimp mentioned) was to go super heavy with just 1 neg rep per set for hypertrophy with spotters.

and like danzik I also use them for pullups when not satisfied with how many I am able to do.

Today I loaded 285 on the smith and did neg flat presses. followed by controlled pushups (gym was empty, no spotters). then I even pressed on it while it rested on the bumpers. (never tried over 225, though it seemed easy on the smith)

then did 3x4 super slow neg chinups. some neg lat raises, and neg seated rows.

just needed to try something different. been out of the gym since I pulled my hamstring recently.

Duncans Donuts · 10-02-2007, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

DD or funk: Would it be extremely beneficial to throw in a negative only/negative focus workout once in a while?

I definitely do focus on the negative in normal lifts more than the average lifter does, but would it be beneficial to say go very heavy one day with a spotter, maybe close to your 1 or 2RM, and just do excruciatingly slow negatives while getting spotted on the concentric?

I know that you can support more weight on the eccentric than the concentric, which is why I figured go very heavy with a spotter.

Would love to give that a try - would be a nice change from my normal superset workouts.

Yes, absolutely. This style of training is extremely productive. You need GOOD spotters , 2 or 3 of them for many of the lifts.

View Poll Results: How important are negatives?
Focus negative every lift	3	50.00%
Focus negative only sometimes	3	50.00%
Focus an entire session on negatives	3	50.00%
It's all about how much you can lift, not lower	0	0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

10-01-2007, 08:42 PM	#1
nismo80 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 16	importance of negatives are eccentric lifts best as a certain workout, or just a variation of a lift, or important to focus on every rep? I have to think that only ever focusing on the push part of say Bench Press, you're missing out on strength and possible size by skipping the negatives. How far should one go? Leave your ego at the door and start all over: reduce the weight and focus on the lowering while also pressing.... or do it on a separate day. Have spotters to lift it for you and focus on the negative, keeping it as a negative only exercise. Or does all this depend on your goals?
nismo80 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 16

10-01-2007, 08:54 PM	#2
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	the theoretical basis of why negative exercise is so beneficial (and so demanding) was basically developed by Arthur Jones. I integrate negative only or negative accentuated exercise into my client routines frequently and it is clearly the most efficient (time in, results out) exercise that can be performed. It also creates a lot of physical trauma to the tendons and muscles, so should be a part of an EXTREMELY low volume routine when applying it exclusively.
	"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

10-01-2007, 09:48 PM	#3
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,574	don't have enough time to reply fully to this thread right now. clif notes version.....negatives have some very good application. don't overlook them!
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

10-01-2007, 10:07 PM	#4
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,098 Blog Entries: 5	DD or funk: Would it be extremely beneficial to throw in a negative only/negative focus workout once in a while? I definitely do focus on the negative in normal lifts more than the average lifter does, but would it be beneficial to say go very heavy one day with a spotter, maybe close to your 1 or 2RM, and just do excruciatingly slow negatives while getting spotted on the concentric? I know that you can support more weight on the eccentric than the concentric, which is why I figured go very heavy with a spotter. Would love to give that a try - would be a nice change from my normal superset workouts.
	Ron Paul 2012 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

10-01-2007, 10:09 PM	#5
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,098 Blog Entries: 5	Especially on my pulling days I abuse eccentrics - when I can't do a single more pullup with full ROM, I pull myself up as high as I can and just hold there. When I can't hold that anymore, I very slowly lower myself. At that point I'm done.
	Ron Paul 2012 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

10-01-2007, 10:12 PM	#6
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	That's a loaded question, but here are my thoughts: If you are talking about supramaximal lifting in the form of negatives that go beyond your 1RM, then I do believe this type of training has it's place. However, in an experienced lifter capable of utilizing a lot of the resources of their nervous system, I would use this type of training infrequently. It is seriously demanding on the body. If you are talking about accentuating the negative, i.e., lowering the weight slower than your "natural tempo," then this also can be applied with good results. Although I have seen some question this, it is generally accepted that the negative portion of the lift has more to do with hypertrophy than the positive portion of the lift. As well, some studies suggest that eccentric muscle contraction is regulated by completely different neural and metabolic processes relative to other types of muscle contraction. Therefore, training this quality would seem to be important. Also, from a practical standpoint, I think slow negatives are great for getting someone to really groove their form on a given lift. I use slower negatives and positional isometrics with various lifts from time to time for a variety of reasons with my clients. Another good practical application is creating overload in a bodyweight maneuver, or exercise that is otherwise hard to progress without pushing the number of repetitions well into endurance territory.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

10-01-2007, 10:34 PM	#7
nismo80 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 16	I just think that for the most part they are forgotten. I saw one routine to try sometimes (as cowpimp mentioned) was to go super heavy with just 1 neg rep per set for hypertrophy with spotters. and like danzik I also use them for pullups when not satisfied with how many I am able to do. Today I loaded 285 on the smith and did neg flat presses. followed by controlled pushups (gym was empty, no spotters). then I even pressed on it while it rested on the bumpers. (never tried over 225, though it seemed easy on the smith) then did 3x4 super slow neg chinups. some neg lat raises, and neg seated rows. just needed to try something different. been out of the gym since I pulled my hamstring recently.
nismo80 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 16

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