Why do people use these machines instead of free weights?

RasPlasch · 10-05-2007, 04:20 PM

I see some people at the gym use these machines where you can benchpress or squat. The bar has 2 hooks on it so you can set the bar the certain height you want it. When you start your workout you unhook the hooks, but the bar is still connected to the machine....so it feels as if you are being assisted a little. The only people I see using these machines are people that bench 225lbs and up.

Are they just using them to be safer with such a heavy weight?

BoneCrusher · 10-05-2007, 04:24 PM

Pretty much ... yeah that's why. For me at least.

Burner02 · 10-05-2007, 04:28 PM

The Smith Machine.
Mixed opinions on its effectiveness.
I'd say its ok to use occasionally, but I'd stick to the free weights.

DOMS · 10-05-2007, 04:30 PM

If nothing else, it prohibits your proper ROM and takes some of the stabilizing muscles out of the equation. Which is bad.

BoneCrusher · 10-05-2007, 04:42 PM

For the meat of lifting free weights are the shiznit but machines have their use. The Smith Machine has been the brunt of bodybuilding humor for a while now ... and I'm guilty of it myself. Sometimes though, on those days when there is no energy to lift and I'm just kinda begrudgingly pushing myself, I use the smith machine to get through the moment.

tallcall · 10-05-2007, 07:21 PM

I use them because of my Tourettes syndrome. I can't do a regular squat with a free weight bar because I can't always keep my head in one place. When I bench, I either need a spotter or a Smith incase I have a momentary lapse in consciousness (a twitch). Strangely, it does not seem to effect me when I'm deadlifting and everything else can be easily dropped if there is a problem.

Unfortunately I keep seeing people doing curls in them and desperately want to yell at all of them!

BigCorey75 · 10-05-2007, 10:08 PM

yeah i see it as nothing more than an expensive place to rest a towel or belt in between my sets of squats and deadlifts

RasPlasch · 10-06-2007, 05:36 PM

Do the smith machines make it easier to move weight? Last time I benched in a strength training week I was able to do 160lbs x5 reps and that was using free weights... over 2 weeks ago. Now today I was able to do 175lbs x5 reps on the smith machine.

XFatMan · 10-07-2007, 03:57 AM

Machines pretty much isolate the muscle groups worked. Therefore, you need more weight to overload the muscle. Let's look at the Bench Press for instance: you can't move the same weight on dumbbells that you can move on a barbell. This is because dumbbells have a greater range of motion and require more secondary muscle groups. And of course, you can't move the same weight on a barbell that you can move on a machine, simply because the machine uses even fewer secondary muscle groups to move the weight.

In my opinion, machines are as good as isolation exercises. Both are practically useless for beginners but essential once you have a decent body fat percentage and can actually see which muscle group should be worked more. That's when machines and isolation exercises should be used - not earlier. Until that point, I'd stick to Squat, Deadlift, Bench Press, Dips, Shoulder Press, Chin Ups, Bent-Over Barbell Rows, a decent diet, and of course, some cardio.

Gordo · 10-07-2007, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RasPlasch

Do the smith machines make it easier to move weight? Last time I benched in a strength training week I was able to do 160lbs x5 reps and that was using free weights... over 2 weeks ago. Now today I was able to do 175lbs x5 reps on the smith machine.

It might, the bar is counterbalanced on some machines.

In terms of safety, just the other day I saw a guy load it up for set of half squats. When he tried to put the safety catches on he could only hook up one side. He then proceed to waste a lot of time and energy trying to get the other side. It didn't look safe at all because he was locked into bar (so to speak). The loss of that free range of motion was causing him more grief than good. Its harder to dump the bar for some reason compared to doing squats in a rack.

There's also this classic (perceived safety)

YouTube Video

AKIRA · 10-07-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tallcall

I use them because of my Tourettes syndrome. I can't do a regular squat with a free weight bar because I can't always keep my head in one place. When I bench, I either need a spotter or a Smith incase I have a momentary lapse in consciousness (a twitch). Strangely, it does not seem to effect me when I'm deadlifting and everything else can be easily dropped if there is a problem.

Unfortunately I keep seeing people doing curls in them and desperately want to yell at all of them!

Holy mother of God, thats gotta be hilarious. Can you record yourself for us?

KeenanB13 · 10-07-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XFatMan

Machines pretty much isolate the muscle groups worked. Therefore, you need more weight to overload the muscle. Let's look at the Bench Press for instance: you can't move the same weight on dumbbells that you can move on a barbell. This is because dumbbells have a greater range of motion and require more secondary muscle groups. And of course, you can't move the same weight on a barbell that you can move on a machine, simply because the machine uses even fewer secondary muscle groups to move the weight.

In my opinion, machines are as good as isolation exercises. Both are practically useless for beginners but essential once you have a decent body fat percentage and can actually see which muscle group should be worked more. That's when machines and isolation exercises should be used - not earlier. Until that point, I'd stick to Squat, Deadlift, Bench Press, Dips, Shoulder Press, Chin Ups, Bent-Over Barbell Rows, a decent diet, and of course, some cardio.

That is some good advice right there.

And I myself use machines and mix them with freeweights. He's right, the biggest thing about them are that they isolate muscles and they take the stabilizer muscles out of the equation. But the good thing is that they can be used with less chance of injury.

tallcall · 10-07-2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Holy mother of God, thats gotta be hilarious. Can you record yourself for us?

It's not funny if you're me! I nearly had two accidents with a free weight bar doing very light squats. One time I jerked my head back and nearly fell backwards, the second time, I jerked it forward and almost went down. I don't have really good luck with them. Maybe I'll give it another try some other time (see if I improved any).

On the other hand, I just did some benching by myself with a free weight bar and I did fine, so maybe I don't really need to use the Smith as I thought (I guess miracles do happen).

Oh, and there is no way I'm recording myself over there (I don't like being on camera).

DOMS · 10-07-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tallcall

It's not funny if you're me! I nearly had two accidents with a free weight bar doing very light squats. One time I jerked my head back and nearly fell backwards, the second time, I jerked it forward and almost went down. I don't have really good luck with them. Maybe I'll give it another try some other time (see if I improved any).

On the other hand, I just did some benching by myself with a free weight bar and I did fine, so maybe I don't really need to use the Smith as I thought (I guess miracles do happen).

Oh, and there is no way I'm recording myself over there (I don't like being on camera).

I don't think that he really understands what Tourettes syndrome is and what the symptoms can be. I think he pictures you yelling out profanities when you lift.

RasPlasch · 10-07-2007, 04:02 PM

So I will see more gains if I free weight benchpress instead of using the machine?

KeenanB13 · 10-07-2007, 04:08 PM

Well it all depends on how you use each of them, but the bench in the long run is probably better because you use stabilizer muscles around the muscle you are working. But I do a bit of both. The machines tend to focus on a muscle and that muscle only, it's good to use them, you can gain a lot of strength from them if you mix them properly with free weights. But if you use machines solely, the thing is then you go and switch to freeweights you are putting yourself at risk for injury because those stabilizer muscles haven't been worked, you see what I mean?

KelJu · 10-07-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tallcall

It's not funny if you're me! I nearly had two accidents with a free weight bar doing very light squats. One time I jerked my head back and nearly fell backwards, the second time, I jerked it forward and almost went down. I don't have really good luck with them. Maybe I'll give it another try some other time (see if I improved any).

On the other hand, I just did some benching by myself with a free weight bar and I did fine, so maybe I don't really need to use the Smith as I thought (I guess miracles do happen).

Oh, and there is no way I'm recording myself over there (I don't like being on camera).

I have a friend with tourettes syndrome. He doesn't curse uncontrollably, but he has some nasty twitches and makes strange noises. He has a great attitude and sense of humor about it, though. He will say weird shit like tourettes guy to make people laugh. Hell, he could probably make it as a stand up comedian if engineering doesn't work out for him.

tallcall · 10-07-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOMS

I don't think that he really understands what Tourettes syndrome is and what the symptoms can be. I think he pictures you yelling out profanities when you lift.

Oh, well, that would explain it. I don't scream profanities (sometimes I fake it). I just have the motor twitches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelJu

I have a friend with tourettes syndrome. He doesn't curse uncontrollably, but he has some nasty twitches and makes strange noises. He has a great attitude and sense of humor about it, though. He will say weird shit like tourettes guy to make people laugh. Hell, he could probably make it as a stand up comedian if engineering doesn't work out for him.

Yeah, it's a pain in the butt when you have to be perfectly still (you know, trying to keep your neck and back in line doing squats - becomes very difficult if you can't keep your neck straight). I'm probably just a little uptight about all of it, but then again, I recieved years of unwanted attention because of it (and still do in some cases), I always get angry with myself because I know I must do better and shut all those people who said I couldn't do shit up - I AM GOING TO BECOME A GOD DAMN ANIMAL!

KelJu · 10-07-2007, 06:18 PM

I love your attitude! Your dedication to improving will payoff.

KeenanB13 · 10-07-2007, 06:32 PM

The most important thing is to always be positive and have the motivation even on those days you don't feel like lifting to pull out that extra rep and go the extra mile, it all pays off when you get to your goal.

Double D · 10-07-2007, 07:07 PM

Best of luck TC! Your on the right track brother. You throw out pr's all the time, which means your on the right track!

tallcall · 10-07-2007, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Best of luck TC! Your on the right track brother. You throw out pr's all the time, which means your on the right track!

Hell yeah, I'm all fired up!

vortrit · 10-08-2007, 02:06 AM

I prefer free weights and cables, but I do use machines and plate loaded machines more now, and I've noticed a lot of improvment believe it or not. I love suppersetting a free weight or cable movement with a machine movement.

AKIRA · 10-08-2007, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOMS

I don't think that he really understands what Tourettes syndrome is and what the symptoms can be. I think he pictures you yelling out profanities when you lift.

No, I understood his descriptions. I just pictured a really tall guy with a barbell on his back doing squats, all while his head is moving around like a child avoiding some shit tasting cold medicine his mother is force feeding him.

tallcall · 10-08-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

No, I understood his descriptions. I just pictured a really tall guy with a barbell on his back doing squats, all while his head is moving around like a child avoiding some shit tasting cold medicine his mother is force feeding him.

Yeah, but that shit hurts (my neck gets sore all the time, but I can't stop moving it), especially in that position. But it has been a while since I tried it, so maybe I'll do better next time.

Yanick · 10-08-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

No, I understood his descriptions. I just pictured a really tall guy with a barbell on his back doing squats, all while his head is moving around like a child avoiding some shit tasting cold medicine his mother is force feeding him.

Yeah chronic neuromuscular disorders are the shit! I crack up over that shit everyday.

Jerk off.

Do you laugh at guys with cerebral palsy cause they walk funny?

tallcall · 10-08-2007, 11:59 AM

There's no reason to fight over anything so stupid as this.

Akira is a cool guy, I'm sure he doesn't just make fun of random people (unless they're really stupid - barbell curls in the power rack anyone?).

I forgive everyone for making stupid comments (it happens to all of us, I don't hold grudges like that).

I met someone today who was brain damaged as a child. He had some of the same twitches I had. I just can't look at people like that for too long because it reminds me of how others must see me. I never laughed at him, I just couldn't stand seeing him.

**CowPimp** · 10-08-2007, 12:52 PM

Why do people use them? It's easier, you can load more plates on each side to placate the ego, and they feel safer. Notice I said "feel" safer, because it is not actually safer in my opinion. Stick to free weights. If you used one occasionally it's not a big deal, but you won't catch me dead in one of those things unless I'm doing chinups or supine rows with it.

DOMS · 10-08-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

No, I understood his descriptions. I just pictured a really tall guy with a barbell on his back doing squats, all while his head is moving around like a child avoiding some shit tasting cold medicine his mother is force feeding him.

That's pretty fucked up, man.

KelJu · 10-08-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tallcall

There's no reason to fight over anything so stupid as this.

Akira is a cool guy, I'm sure he doesn't just make fun of random people (unless they're really stupid - barbell curls in the power rack anyone?).

I forgive everyone for making stupid comments (it happens to all of us, I don't hold grudges like that).

I met someone today who was brain damaged as a child. He had some of the same twitches I had. I just can't look at people like that for too long because it reminds me of how others must see me. I never laughed at him, I just couldn't stand seeing him.

Your attitude makes me feel like a whinny spoiled brat. I think I could definitely improve my attitude by hanging around you. Cheers!

10-05-2007, 04:20 PM	#1
RasPlasch Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,038 Photos: 3	Why do people use these machines instead of free weights? I see some people at the gym use these machines where you can benchpress or squat. The bar has 2 hooks on it so you can set the bar the certain height you want it. When you start your workout you unhook the hooks, but the bar is still connected to the machine....so it feels as if you are being assisted a little. The only people I see using these machines are people that bench 225lbs and up. Are they just using them to be safer with such a heavy weight?

10-05-2007, 04:28 PM	#3
Burner02 Super Hero in Training Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kabul, Afghanistan Posts: 29,645	The Smith Machine. Mixed opinions on its effectiveness. I'd say its ok to use occasionally, but I'd stick to the free weights. Success leaves clues. People who produce outstanding results do specific things to create those results Nobody cares what you did yesterday or what you are going to do tomorrow. What is important is what you are doing NOW to solve our problem THERE IS NO TOMORROW! - Appollo Creed

10-05-2007, 07:21 PM	#6
tallcall The Evil Director is IN Elite Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,897 Photos: 12	I use them because of my Tourettes syndrome. I can't do a regular squat with a free weight bar because I can't always keep my head in one place. When I bench, I either need a spotter or a Smith incase I have a momentary lapse in consciousness (a twitch). Strangely, it does not seem to effect me when I'm deadlifting and everything else can be easily dropped if there is a problem. Unfortunately I keep seeing people doing curls in them and desperately want to yell at all of them! First Place Florida State Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Champions - My guys - "Team Brotherhood"

10-07-2007, 03:57 AM	#9
XFatMan Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 243	Machines pretty much isolate the muscle groups worked. Therefore, you need more weight to overload the muscle. Let's look at the Bench Press for instance: you can't move the same weight on dumbbells that you can move on a barbell. This is because dumbbells have a greater range of motion and require more secondary muscle groups. And of course, you can't move the same weight on a barbell that you can move on a machine, simply because the machine uses even fewer secondary muscle groups to move the weight. In my opinion, machines are as good as isolation exercises. Both are practically useless for beginners but essential once you have a decent body fat percentage and can actually see which muscle group should be worked more. That's when machines and isolation exercises should be used - not earlier. Until that point, I'd stick to Squat, Deadlift, Bench Press, Dips, Shoulder Press, Chin Ups, Bent-Over Barbell Rows, a decent diet, and of course, some cardio. December 30, 2007: Body Weight: 75.8 Kg / 174.3 lbs Body Fat Percentage: 21.9% Current (January 13, 2008): Body Weight 66,7 Kg / 147.2 lbs Body Fat Percentage: 5.8%

10-07-2007, 04:08 PM	#16
KeenanB13 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: West Va. Posts: 125 Photos: 8	Well it all depends on how you use each of them, but the bench in the long run is probably better because you use stabilizer muscles around the muscle you are working. But I do a bit of both. The machines tend to focus on a muscle and that muscle only, it's good to use them, you can gain a lot of strength from them if you mix them properly with free weights. But if you use machines solely, the thing is then you go and switch to freeweights you are putting yourself at risk for injury because those stabilizer muscles haven't been worked, you see what I mean? www.myspace.com/121389j

10-05-2007, 04:24 PM	#2
BoneCrusher Lift or Die Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 8,589	Pretty much ... yeah that's why. For me at least.

10-05-2007, 04:30 PM	#4
DOMS Metrosexual Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 22,092 Photos: 1	If nothing else, it prohibits your proper ROM and takes some of the stabilizing muscles out of the equation. Which is bad.

10-05-2007, 04:42 PM	#5
BoneCrusher Lift or Die Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 8,589	For the meat of lifting free weights are the shiznit but machines have their use. The Smith Machine has been the brunt of bodybuilding humor for a while now ... and I'm guilty of it myself. Sometimes though, on those days when there is no energy to lift and I'm just kinda begrudgingly pushing myself, I use the smith machine to get through the moment.

10-05-2007, 10:08 PM	#7
BigCorey75 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4	yeah i see it as nothing more than an expensive place to rest a towel or belt in between my sets of squats and deadlifts

10-06-2007, 05:36 PM	#8
RasPlasch Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,038 Photos: 3	Do the smith machines make it easier to move weight? Last time I benched in a strength training week I was able to do 160lbs x5 reps and that was using free weights... over 2 weeks ago. Now today I was able to do 175lbs x5 reps on the smith machine.

10-07-2007, 04:02 PM	#15
RasPlasch Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,038 Photos: 3	So I will see more gains if I free weight benchpress instead of using the machine?

10-07-2007, 06:18 PM	#19
KelJu Thats Dr. Keke to you! Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In my imagination. Posts: 10,160 Photos: 2	I love your attitude! Your dedication to improving will payoff.

10-07-2007, 06:32 PM	#20
KeenanB13 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: West Va. Posts: 125 Photos: 8	The most important thing is to always be positive and have the motivation even on those days you don't feel like lifting to pull out that extra rep and go the extra mile, it all pays off when you get to your goal. www.myspace.com/121389j

10-07-2007, 07:07 PM	#21
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Best of luck TC! Your on the right track brother. You throw out pr's all the time, which means your on the right track!

10-08-2007, 02:06 AM	#23
vortrit Bulk. Cut. Repeat. Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 2,647 Photos: 5	I prefer free weights and cables, but I do use machines and plate loaded machines more now, and I've noticed a lot of improvment believe it or not. I love suppersetting a free weight or cable movement with a machine movement. My Journal!

10-08-2007, 11:59 AM	#27
tallcall The Evil Director is IN Elite Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,897 Photos: 12	There's no reason to fight over anything so stupid as this. Akira is a cool guy, I'm sure he doesn't just make fun of random people (unless they're really stupid - barbell curls in the power rack anyone?). I forgive everyone for making stupid comments (it happens to all of us, I don't hold grudges like that). I met someone today who was brain damaged as a child. He had some of the same twitches I had. I just can't look at people like that for too long because it reminds me of how others must see me. I never laughed at him, I just couldn't stand seeing him. First Place Florida State Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Champions - My guys - "Team Brotherhood"

10-08-2007, 12:52 PM	#28
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,615	Why do people use them? It's easier, you can load more plates on each side to placate the ego, and they feel safer. Notice I said "feel" safer, because it is not actually safer in my opinion. Stick to free weights. If you used one occasionally it's not a big deal, but you won't catch me dead in one of those things unless I'm doing chinups or supine rows with it. The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... Belligerent Bovine badass YouTube Videos

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