Duncans Donuts

Nonsense. The form is so sloppy in a kipping pull up as to make it much worse than a poorly performed barbell curl. It does not build more power than a regular pull-up, instead uses poor mechanics and rapid bouncing (momentum, stored energy) to do quickly what a lazy ass can't do otherwise.

Don't sacrifice technique. Don't listen to insane advice about "power" development when all they are using is bad form. Slow tension will increase power output potential in your lats and biceps a lot better than using choppy shifts, jerky motion, and stored energy to perform these exercises.

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

Duncans Donuts

Would you be so kind as to differentiate between strength and power in the context of a pull up?? Or would you like to go back to a high school physics class first?

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

fUnc17

Depends entirely what your training for. For bodybuilding purposes, kipping is absolutely pointless. For an athlete, a fighter for instance, kipping is excellent for power endurance

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VILBAUGH

First of all, power is driven from the hips, quads and spinal erectors. sorry...not the biceps. Every athletic movement radiates from the core to the extremities.
The C&J, snatch, vertical leap etc. Im talking about explosiveness! Core to extremity muscle recruitment.
Big power output does often require a vicious, violent extention, especially when dealing with the O lifts. Dont be scared, it is the nature of the beast.
What looks to you to be sloppy and poor is actually very technical and efficiant.
I know you are a bodybuilder that enjoys supersetting biceps and thats cool,
but these pullups are for athletes, and deliver not only sweet hytrophy but also tax the whole human system - and ellicit a neuroendocrine response.

If you are BB and your only goal is hytrophy listen to FUnc17. stay strict.

vortrit

I did my first weighted ones today. Felt great!

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VILBAUGH

strength relates to the weight or load ,

and power is the way in which the load is moved...

slow and steady or fast and aggressive...

vortrit

I think that's actually called tempo.

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VILBAUGH

you are stuck in BB mode.
If you were to jump as high as you can, sprint as fast as you could or jerk a heavy load overhead , speed and power are major factors... tempo is nonexistent.

vortrit

How am I stuck in BB mode? Tempo is simply the speed or pace at which you do something, no matter what it is, it can have a tempo.

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vortrit

However, I wasn't trying to imply you were wrong because in physics power means work done or energy transferred per unit of time.

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Hoglander

What do weighted "Kipping Pullups" look like? Do you have a studded weighted vest for that you use with rhinestone studded ankle weights? I can't visualize the normal gear with that "form." The visualization that comes to mind is homo strapped to homo with this air humping cheater method you love. So how do you add weight????

AKIRA

Ive never been a believer of these type of pullups. I dont know, they just look real fucking bad.

Not to mention, I dont see much of an advantage of them over other pullups.

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Duncans Donuts

Are you saying a fast athlete can not be built using slow and steady weight training movements?

How about training fast movements without weights on the field in a specific context, and training for force output potential by increasing sarcomere size (etc) in the weight room?

I disagree entirely with the idea that sloppy pull-ups offer a single athletic benefit, need to go back and study your neurophysiology

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

Duncans Donuts

Actually I'm not a bodybuilder, I came from an athletic background and understand the stupid arguments you are making. Don't patronize me.

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

VILBAUGH

[quote=Hoglander;1698150]What do weighted "Kipping Pullups" look like? QUOTE]

it looks like a kipping pullup....with weight.

VILBAUGH

Absolutly you can train fast movements without weight, and obviosly any gains in the weight room will improve output. Strength training is 100% necessary for explosiveness. I agree with everything your sayin here.
I dont know if Im just being too rude and offending the folks here or what, I just love to discuss this shit.

if you know the difference between a strict shoulder press and a push jerk, the same comparison can be made with the kipping pullup and a strict one.
power generated from the hips is used to complete movement in both the jerk and kip.
The jerk and kip are completed at a faster rate then the strict version no matter how many reps you are doing. and to top it off, the distance the load travels is further while kipping or jerking....also, not only are you moving the weight further and faster but the number of reps you are capable of doing is almost tripled!
the power has definitly increased.

if this doesnt make sense to anyone, I give up.

Hoglander

[quote=VILBAUGH;1698212]So you don't understand the mechanics of the movement. You should just say that. You should also give Duncans his props, IMHO.

P-funk

If it looks like shit and it smells like shit, guess what.....it's shit.


A well executed clean looks very technical (and impressive)....a kipping pull up is not technical...it is just a way of being ballistic and generating force through swinging in order to accelerate yourself up into the pull up position......is it efficient? I guess you could say it is efficient at helping you get up and over the bar, but at what cost?

Lets examine a few things:

1) in order for the movement to be truely explosive, there would needs to be some sort of release....otherwise you are slowing down and decelerating over a greater ROM than you are accelerating (although you are sort of getting around that by swinging on the bar).

2) Since there is no release, when you get to the top, the force needs to go somewhere. This is diverted down through the shoulders in order to help you decelerate yourself. Being ballistic on this movement is going to place a shit ton of strain on the biceps (both at the elbow and shoulder) and at the shoulder joint as it needs to stabilize your body in the eccentric portion of the lift.

http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind!

http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog!

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Witchblade

Vil does not see there is a difference between power generated by yourself and force generated by swinging and momentum.

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Duncans Donuts

Yeah, exactly. It's called stored energy, it's caused by rapid compression of tissue and subsequent recoil. Think of a rubber band. Broomstick twists are nothing more nor less than a rebound of the tissue, offers something less than nothing for your obliques.

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

danzik17

DD/Funk - What do you think of holding the pullup mid-rep for extended periods of time? One thing I've been messing around with is going half-way on a chinup, then holding it (or at least trying to ) for one song on my stereo, usually like 3-4m.

That's just something I do in my room when I get bored, it's not really part of any routine; was just wondering what you thought of it. I've never made a full song yet, but soon enough.

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Duncans Donuts

Isometric contractions fall somewhere between concentric and eccentric strength, so there will be a transference of strength assuming you are doing full range of motion pullups. I would try and do the concentric hold at the top and slowly ease down (negative accentuated exercise) instead of just performing a static hold.

I don't see a problem with it except your tension time is going to get so high it could cause overuse atrophy of the fast twitch fibers; however if you're predominantly slow oxidative you might garner some reasonable benefit from it.

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

Duncans Donuts

A perfectly performed clean is extremely technical and efficient. There are something like 18 phases to it that require a very specific preparatory postural reaction and specific joint mechanics that are sequenced in proportions and timed with a high degree of accuracy. A kipping pull up is nothing like a clean (and I don't particularly like cleans), it's like comparing apples and rotten meat. Not fair.

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

danzik17

How do you tell whether you're predominantly fast-twitch or slow-twitch?

Ron Paul 2008

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