I hate biceps training!

TJohn · 06-25-2002, 07:57 AM

I agree with everyone here that that is too much. I train my bi's after my back so they've alread had a good beatin' !! I do 2 different exercies for bi's that's it.

TJohn

Robboe · 06-25-2002, 09:30 AM

If it matters any, i dropped direct shoulder work for a while starting today, save for 1-2 sets of side laterals.

kuso · 06-25-2002, 09:35 AM

I did the same thing about 3 weeks ago.....but go with 3 sets of laterals

Robboe · 06-25-2002, 09:37 AM

cool.

How is it working out thus far?

kuso · 06-25-2002, 09:41 AM

Well, as I said, it`s only been three weeks but I really like it.

It`s funny, I know you can`t tell how well it`s working from DOMS, but I never really had any when I was doing 8 or 9 sets for shoulders......now just three sets and I`m in pain for a couple of days

And, it`s A LOT easier on my joints!!! Which is great.

I`m quite happy thus far

Neil · 06-25-2002, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
If it matters any, i dropped direct shoulder work for a while starting today, save for 1-2 sets of side laterals.

I did the same thing a couple weeks ago and my pressing poundages have gone way up. I think the chest moves hit my shoulders hard and they may have been slightly overtrained when I was doing direct shoulder work and that's why all my chest lifts went up.l

mad_mike · 06-25-2002, 12:32 PM

I agree with everyone else about you stop doing so many sets for your biceps but also if you are still worried about not getting a good pump, try increasing the weight you are lifting.

**Mudge** · 06-25-2002, 12:33 PM

Bench really hits my shoulders and triceps the more I pay attention to it, most especially my front delts it seems. I dropped my dumbell presses for shoulders now to 2 sets from 3, however I raised laterals and rears to 3 sets each, not sure if I will curtail that but yesterday was definately a day in hell for my shoulders, I felt it for a good couple hours - today I dont feel it much though, other than that slight fatigue feeling.

**gopro** · 06-25-2002, 07:25 PM

Jeez...at this pace nobody will be even training anymore, LOL.

Showdown · 06-25-2002, 07:39 PM

You guys are all missing the boat. The secret to great arms are to do bis and tris together, finishing up with forarms after everything is said and done. Incredible pump and massive gains, not to mention one of the most important muscle groups that ties in symetry (not to mention one of the most obviously seen-by-the-general-public muscles).

You can't do any stage poses without utilizing an arm pose.

I ran into an article by Charles Poliquin on 7 tips for massive arms which I thought was great. Here is Showdown's condensed version of the article:

Tip #1
Don't train biceps with back and triceps with chest. Poliquin's theory is that there is a lot of residual fatigue in the elbow flexors from the heavy sets used with other large muscle groups. Set aside a day just for arms.

Tip #2
Train your arms using the double station system. Basically put, you're supersetting biceps and triceps. Extending rest periods between sets is always recommended when exercising agonist with antagonist muscle groups.

Tip #3
To gain arm strength, pause between reps. Pausing between reps helps offset the oxygen debt associated with sustained contractions (recommended 10-15 seconds between reps).

Tip #4
Don't neglect the forearms or the traps.

Forearm strength is directly associated with bicep and tricep strength, therefore if the forearms are strong, you can load up on weight when doing bicep/tricep mass exercises.

Train your traps. And I quote "the stability of the cervicothoracic junction is critical for optimizing the neural and vascular supply to the upper arms". In English, if you're arm muscles are big but not in proportion to deltoid and trapezius development, you can end up cutting off blood circulation or nerve endings. This will cause problems maintaining or gaining more mass.

Tip #5
Give the 6-12-25 method a try. For those not familiar, the 6-12-25 refers to the number of reps done in a triple-set with 10 second rest in-between each exercise. (6 reps first exercise, rest, 12 reps second exercise, rest, 25 reps third exercise.) Try 2-3 sets of this method with at least a two-minute rest between sets.

Tip #6
Use specific brachialis training. On every great pair of arms, you always notice great brachialis development. To work this muscle, use Scott curls (wide or narrow, low pulley, or EZ bar) hammer curls, Gaspari bar curls, and Zottmann curls.

**gopro** · 06-25-2002, 07:42 PM

Charles Poliquin is a great man

Showdown · 06-25-2002, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
Charles Poliquin is a great man

Amen.

Not only a great man, but his knowledge should be chiseled into stone. Simple advice which can be utilized by all.

**Mudge** · 06-25-2002, 08:36 PM

Some people have argued the opposite though, that you end up taking the blood from one side and moving it to the other, supposedly to mean that your robbing nutrients/growth from maximal potential.

Not really taking a side here, but I've avoided bi/tri in the same day for this reason.

kuso · 06-25-2002, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mudge
Some people have argued the opposite though, that you end up taking the blood from one side and moving it to the other, supposedly to mean that your robbing nutrients/growth from maximal potential.

Not really taking a side here, but I've avoided bi/tri in the same day for this reason.

Not taking sides either, and I have tried it that way and quite like it ( but like to mix up my split every now and then ) BUT....if there is enough blood in your body for ham/quads, then I don`t think there will be a prob with bi/tri`s.

**Mudge** · 06-25-2002, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kuso

BUT....if there is enough blood in your body for ham/quads

Sounds like a good argument, could be something from the 50s/60s with nothing to back it up, who knows...

Showdown · 06-25-2002, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mudge
Some people have argued the opposite though, that you end up taking the blood from one side and moving it to the other, supposedly to mean that your robbing nutrients/growth from maximal potential.

Not really taking a side here, but I've avoided bi/tri in the same day for this reason.

That arguement would render the bi/back or tri/chest or tri/shoulder or leg/anything or anything/anything workout wrong.

Actually, a superset of bi/tri would make more sense with the circulatory argument, simply because it's centralized in a specific area.

But I'm open for debate here...

**Mudge** · 06-25-2002, 09:16 PM

I've got not a pegleg to stand on, just something I came across once upon a time, so figured I'd mention it. Maybe I'll give it a shot sometime, right now my arms aren't the lagging parts for me though so I'm not too worried about 'em.

Showdown · 06-25-2002, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mudge
I've got not a pegleg to stand on, just something I came across once upon a time, so figured I'd mention it. Maybe I'll give it a shot sometime, right now my arms aren't the lagging parts for me though so I'm not too worried about 'em.

Same here, arms are a gifted bodypart. But I'll never ignore the possiblities of their genetics simply to avoid a symetrical position. As I said before, try to think of one stage pose that doesn't utilize the arms. They are just as important as legs, and probably even more important for us peoples that don't compete; simply because the arms are more exposed than any other body part.

I can't stop my arms from growing even if I neglected them. However, I'd like to take a page from Tom Platz's book and simply state "If you got it, why not take advantage of it?"

LAM · 06-25-2002, 09:27 PM

I never say the point in an "arm" day or any logical benefits of it...

**Mudge** · 06-25-2002, 09:32 PM

I think my problem was mostly that I kept thinking to myself how small my arms were and somehow not seeing that the rest of me was lagging behind even more, it was very hard to look at myself subjectively, so I'm perfectly fine with biceps and triceps taking a "back seat", and thinking of the larger bodyparts first, at least for the moment.

Back/biceps
Chest/triceps is what I'm using now...

Showdown · 06-25-2002, 09:43 PM

First off, Mudge: If you are going to continue to beat yourself down in front of me, I'll take advantage of that and call you the biggest pussy around!!!

A lagging bodypart warrants attention, but not at the sacrifice of strong bodyparts! Quit trying to over-analyze your workout. Focus on fundamentals, focus on proper diet, and utilize splits that you feel comfortable with. Stop knocking yourself and start gathering an ego equal to someone who cares about their vessel as you do.

LAM: Make sense if you are going to debate.

**Mudge** · 06-25-2002, 09:46 PM

I wasn't trying to, just trying to notice what I'm not working hard enough, and what I'm paying too much attention too (or was). Thanks tho

Showdown · 06-25-2002, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mudge
I wasn't trying to, just trying to notice what I'm not working hard enough, and what I'm paying too much attention too (or was). Thanks tho

Thanks my ass. Start proving you're an alpha-male. I've seen pics of you, and besides a much needed tan, you shouldn't consider yourself a small weakling.

Most of the people you'll meet on this website (or any other) are interested in one thing: reshaping their self-image into a more positive and (dare I say) aggressive person; one that knows where they are going in life and won't be held back by physical imperfections.

I've only lectured you on this twice. But from now on, if I don't see a transition into a more confident person, I'm going to take advantage of it. I'll spite the respect of this board to knock you down.

Be a man, knock me down first.

**Mudge** · 06-25-2002, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Showdown

Start proving you're an alpha-male. I've seen pics of you, and besides a much needed tan, you shouldn't consider yourself a small weakling.

Dude, I'm a white guy, I was born white and unless I waste an hour a day every day, I'm going to stay that way.

I'm a mild mannered person, so I'm not out to prove anything to some dewds on the internet. Honestly though I'm not sure if I should try to take this as my Tony Little motivational speech, or as some kind of 'F U buddy'. I'm working hard in the gym to improve myself, as well as other things going on study wise.

I'm not saying I'm Tiny Tim, but without doing much of anything I can maintain somewhere over 16" arms, so 17+ isn't much to me at the moment and I've been here for so long, that it just looks like regular old me.

Thanks again for the input

Showdown · 06-25-2002, 10:47 PM

Call me Mr. Little, except I'm not going to ask for your credit card.

You set goals, you try to accomplish them. And life is like a box of chocolates. Whatever.

Here's a great impression of Showdown: "Hi, I'm Showdown. I either like you or I don't. For some reason I like Mudge, but if he doesn't start portraiting some confidence, I'm going to drive my ass to the Bay and kick sand in his face."

You want 19" arms? Then make them happen.

You want bulging pecs? Then make them happen.

You want to accomplish professional goals? Then make them happen.

Here's the deal. Either you do something or you don't. I've read your posts. You know how to do it, but you pussy out when it comes to acknowledging your own knowledge. Be a fuqing leader and start kicking other people's ass on this board. And start kicking other people's ass in your real life, too. I'll guarantee that you'll be happier and more successful...

Neil · 06-25-2002, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
Jeez...at this pace nobody will be even training anymore, LOL.

I guess it kinda looks that way.
It just seems like lately the less I do the bigger and stronger I get.

**Mudge** · 06-25-2002, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Showdown
Here's the deal. Either you do something or you don't. I've read your posts. You know how to do it, but you pussy out when it comes to acknowledging your own knowledge.

This is a comeback for me, I have many hobbies, road racing, engine building, reading, guitar, and I have to keep up with the computer world per my job. Right now this is the hobby that has priority, and this board is a big part of that.

All I said basically was my symetry was poor, I dont know how it got to this.

06-25-2002, 09:30 AM	#32
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	If it matters any, i dropped direct shoulder work for a while starting today, save for 1-2 sets of side laterals.
	Being held down by The Man

06-25-2002, 09:37 AM	#34
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	cool. How is it working out thus far?
	Being held down by The Man

06-25-2002, 12:33 PM	#38
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,029 Photos: 1	Bench really hits my shoulders and triceps the more I pay attention to it, most especially my front delts it seems. I dropped my dumbell presses for shoulders now to 2 sets from 3, however I raised laterals and rears to 3 sets each, not sure if I will curtail that but yesterday was definately a day in hell for my shoulders, I felt it for a good couple hours - today I dont feel it much though, other than that slight fatigue feeling.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

06-25-2002, 07:25 PM	#39
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,509	Jeez...at this pace nobody will be even training anymore, LOL.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

06-25-2002, 07:39 PM	#40
Showdown My brain itches! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 101	You guys are all missing the boat. The secret to great arms are to do bis and tris together, finishing up with forarms after everything is said and done. Incredible pump and massive gains, not to mention one of the most important muscle groups that ties in symetry (not to mention one of the most obviously seen-by-the-general-public muscles). You can't do any stage poses without utilizing an arm pose. I ran into an article by Charles Poliquin on 7 tips for massive arms which I thought was great. Here is Showdown's condensed version of the article: Tip #1 Don't train biceps with back and triceps with chest. Poliquin's theory is that there is a lot of residual fatigue in the elbow flexors from the heavy sets used with other large muscle groups. Set aside a day just for arms. Tip #2 Train your arms using the double station system. Basically put, you're supersetting biceps and triceps. Extending rest periods between sets is always recommended when exercising agonist with antagonist muscle groups. Tip #3 To gain arm strength, pause between reps. Pausing between reps helps offset the oxygen debt associated with sustained contractions (recommended 10-15 seconds between reps). Tip #4 Don't neglect the forearms or the traps. Forearm strength is directly associated with bicep and tricep strength, therefore if the forearms are strong, you can load up on weight when doing bicep/tricep mass exercises. Train your traps. And I quote "the stability of the cervicothoracic junction is critical for optimizing the neural and vascular supply to the upper arms". In English, if you're arm muscles are big but not in proportion to deltoid and trapezius development, you can end up cutting off blood circulation or nerve endings. This will cause problems maintaining or gaining more mass. Tip #5 Give the 6-12-25 method a try. For those not familiar, the 6-12-25 refers to the number of reps done in a triple-set with 10 second rest in-between each exercise. (6 reps first exercise, rest, 12 reps second exercise, rest, 25 reps third exercise.) Try 2-3 sets of this method with at least a two-minute rest between sets. Tip #6 Use specific brachialis training. On every great pair of arms, you always notice great brachialis development. To work this muscle, use Scott curls (wide or narrow, low pulley, or EZ bar) hammer curls, Gaspari bar curls, and Zottmann curls.
	It's not just a sport, it's a lifestyle!

06-25-2002, 07:57 AM	#31
TJohn Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania Posts: 445	I agree with everyone here that that is too much. I train my bi's after my back so they've alread had a good beatin' !! I do 2 different exercies for bi's that's it. TJohn

06-25-2002, 09:35 AM	#33
kuso Um......get rooted! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aka ( o Y o ) Posts: 15,033 Photos: 15	I did the same thing about 3 weeks ago.....but go with 3 sets of laterals

06-25-2002, 09:41 AM	#35
kuso Um......get rooted! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aka ( o Y o ) Posts: 15,033 Photos: 15	Well, as I said, it`s only been three weeks but I really like it. It`s funny, I know you can`t tell how well it`s working from DOMS, but I never really had any when I was doing 8 or 9 sets for shoulders......now just three sets and I`m in pain for a couple of days And, it`s A LOT easier on my joints!!! Which is great. I`m quite happy thus far

06-25-2002, 12:32 PM	#37
mad_mike is this thing on? Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 53	I agree with everyone else about you stop doing so many sets for your biceps but also if you are still worried about not getting a good pump, try increasing the weight you are lifting.

06-25-2002, 07:42 PM	#41
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,509	Charles Poliquin is a great man
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

06-25-2002, 08:36 PM	#43
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,029 Photos: 1	Some people have argued the opposite though, that you end up taking the blood from one side and moving it to the other, supposedly to mean that your robbing nutrients/growth from maximal potential. Not really taking a side here, but I've avoided bi/tri in the same day for this reason.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

06-25-2002, 09:16 PM	#47
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,029 Photos: 1	I've got not a pegleg to stand on, just something I came across once upon a time, so figured I'd mention it. Maybe I'll give it a shot sometime, right now my arms aren't the lagging parts for me though so I'm not too worried about 'em.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

06-25-2002, 09:27 PM	#49
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	I never say the point in an "arm" day or any logical benefits of it...
	Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

06-25-2002, 09:32 PM	#50
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,029 Photos: 1	I think my problem was mostly that I kept thinking to myself how small my arms were and somehow not seeing that the rest of me was lagging behind even more, it was very hard to look at myself subjectively, so I'm perfectly fine with biceps and triceps taking a "back seat", and thinking of the larger bodyparts first, at least for the moment. Back/biceps Chest/triceps is what I'm using now...

06-25-2002, 09:43 PM	#51
Showdown My brain itches! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 101	First off, Mudge: If you are going to continue to beat yourself down in front of me, I'll take advantage of that and call you the biggest pussy around!!! A lagging bodypart warrants attention, but not at the sacrifice of strong bodyparts! Quit trying to over-analyze your workout. Focus on fundamentals, focus on proper diet, and utilize splits that you feel comfortable with. Stop knocking yourself and start gathering an ego equal to someone who cares about their vessel as you do. LAM: Make sense if you are going to debate.
	It's not just a sport, it's a lifestyle!

06-25-2002, 09:46 PM	#52
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,029 Photos: 1	I wasn't trying to, just trying to notice what I'm not working hard enough, and what I'm paying too much attention too (or was). Thanks tho
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

06-25-2002, 10:47 PM	#55
Showdown My brain itches! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 101	Call me Mr. Little, except I'm not going to ask for your credit card. You set goals, you try to accomplish them. And life is like a box of chocolates. Whatever. Here's a great impression of Showdown: "Hi, I'm Showdown. I either like you or I don't. For some reason I like Mudge, but if he doesn't start portraiting some confidence, I'm going to drive my ass to the Bay and kick sand in his face." You want 19" arms? Then make them happen. You want bulging pecs? Then make them happen. You want to accomplish professional goals? Then make them happen. Here's the deal. Either you do something or you don't. I've read your posts. You know how to do it, but you pussy out when it comes to acknowledging your own knowledge. Be a fuqing leader and start kicking other people's ass on this board. And start kicking other people's ass in your real life, too. I'll guarantee that you'll be happier and more successful...
	It's not just a sport, it's a lifestyle!