Central Nervous System.... recovery & symptoms of overload

Big G · 11-13-2007, 10:16 AM

I'm reading Scrawny to Brawny and it's discussing a Strength Gaining phase. It's recommending 3minute Rest Intervals between sets because {Quote} "Your central nervous system takes longer to restore between sets than your muscles do"

Additionally "due to the heavy nervous system demand..." I should be "training every third in an effort to ensure adequate nervous system recovery"

My question is this...
What symptoms might I notice if I am not resting adequately?

the reason I'm asking is because I've been doing some strength training recently, but have only rested 1min between sets and last week I even worked-out 4 times. I've never given a moments thought to my nervous system (I never knew it was affected. heck, I don't even know what it does!) and it's not like I'm getting increasingly nervous, jittery or whatever. Would there be signs if I'm over working my nervous system?

Witchblade · 11-13-2007, 10:40 AM

Your two questions are not identical (in fact they're almost completely unrelated). The phrase in the book refers to RIs. The longer you rest, the stronger you'll be. That's all it says really.

Big G · 11-13-2007, 10:58 AM

Both phrases indicate that the structure & timing of the workout is being determined by the demands placed on the Central Nervous System.

Since 've never given a moments thought to my Central Nervous System, my question remains the same...

What symptoms might I notice if I am not resting adequately?

If, for example, I only rest 1minute intead of 3... am I just not giong to get such good results on the next lift and that's all? Or, will the Central Nervous Systyem be damaged/injured in zome way, leading to illness, nervousness, jitters, twitches (whatever)?

Again, for example, if I only take one day off between workouts (instead of 3, as recommended) am I just not giong to get such good results on the next workout and that's all? Or, will the Central Nervous Systyem be damaged/injured in zome way, leading to illness, nervousness, jitters, twitches (whatever)?

What are the symptoms af an overworked nervous system/ Any? Or just decreased (or sub-optimal) performance?

Witchblade · 11-13-2007, 11:09 AM

Lower RI, lower weight.

Less recovery, more fatigue. A went into more detail on the symptoms of overtraining in my FAQ thread.

BulkMeUp · 11-13-2007, 11:36 AM

You will face muscular fatigue long before you face CNS fatigue. From what you described above I'd say it is muscular fatigue, if you have been doing that over a short period of time. CNS fatigue takes longer to happen and longer to recover from.

Overtraining: What is it? How can you avoid it?

Big G · 11-13-2007, 11:40 AM

So you're saying that "Overtraining" & Central-Nervous-System-exhaustion are one and the same? I didn't get that feeling reading Scrawny to Brawny.

Witchblade · 11-13-2007, 11:57 AM

Overtraining is a general term for all kinds of overtraining/fatigue. CNS fatigue is one of them.

buening · 11-13-2007, 03:01 PM

Maybe that's why all these kids do more talking than lifting in the gym? They have to have 10 minute RI so they don't fatigue their CNS!

Big G · 11-13-2007, 03:01 PM

So... once again... are there any signs that the CNS (specifically) is not getting suffient recovery?

buening · 11-13-2007, 03:06 PM

Unless you are doing some insane amount of sets per body group or are lifting heavy without a days rest in between (depending on your programming), you will not likely have problems with your CNS.

Big G · 11-13-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buening

Unless you are doing some insane amount of sets per body group or are lifting heavy without a days rest in between (depending on your programming), you will not likely have problems with your CNS.

OMG!!

But how would I know if I did have problems with CNS?

buening · 11-13-2007, 04:41 PM

Google is your friend

Exercise weights progressively decreasing, overall depressed mood, frequent health problems i.e. sickness, muscle loss, hell there are numerous signs but will vary from person to person. It will be quite obvious when your CNS cannot keep up, although not very likely as I said before. Overtraining is in my opinion overrated in weightlifting. Someone's lift suddenly goes down and everyone jumps aboard the "you're overtraining" bus.

buening · 11-13-2007, 04:45 PM

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=755131

Although not exactly an article on CNS fatigue, it does cover some of the basics of why a beginner cannot do high frequency training, which leads to overtraining/CNS fatigue. High frequency.....as in training the same muscle every day. High frequency does not mean short rest intervals between sets, just so we're clear.

Elson · 11-13-2007, 04:55 PM

I've always seen 30s for endurance training, 60s for size, 1.5-3mins for strength and 3-5mins for power..and obviously higher RI means higher weight and less reps..but I'm not sure if they are right. Right now I do a minute to stay kinda in between. Think i'll move to 2mins now after reading that...

buening · 11-13-2007, 05:01 PM

In my opinion, rest intervals are dependent on the amount of weight being pushed around and the amount of muscle recruitment. Would you rest the same amount of time after deadlifting 300lbs vs. a dumbbell curl of 50lb? Higher RI for higher weight, but too high and your results will likely decrease. I don't exactly time myself, but i'd venture to guess my RI is around 1 minute for isolation movements and 2 minutes or slightly less for large compound movements like the dead and squat. Just don't overthink things, concentrate more on the form and increasing the weight and concentrate less on the RI and other crap. When you overthink things is when things go wrong

danzik17 · 11-13-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big G

OMG!!

But how would I know if I did have problems with CNS?

I don't know all of them, but I know a few signs of CNS overtraining is increased illness, and a general unwillingness to go to the gym (other than being lazy).

I personally think an increase in stress goes along with that to. Whereas normal training is a huge stress release for me, the one or two times I've gone into overtraining I found it to cause a lot of stress.

Big G · 11-13-2007, 06:57 PM

Kewl. I'm not going to worry then.

Somebody pass me a big-ass weight!

Witchblade · 11-14-2007, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big G

OMG!!

You know, I answered your question like three times already, there's a thread about this in the stickies and there's not always a yes or no answer to the questions you ask. You seem to want sound bite rules for everything.

'Carbs are bad.'
'High RI for 4-6 reps.'
'Your CNS is fatigued when you become ill.'

It's not that simple. Understanding the concepts of training and dieting goes way beyond yes or no.

Big G · 11-14-2007, 06:58 AM

Witch,

I'm putting it together. Bare with me. I might ask more stupid questions here soon!

11-13-2007, 10:16 AM	#1
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,212 Photos: 1	Central Nervous System.... recovery & symptoms of overload I'm reading Scrawny to Brawny and it's discussing a Strength Gaining phase. It's recommending 3minute Rest Intervals between sets because {Quote} "Your central nervous system takes longer to restore between sets than your muscles do" Additionally "due to the heavy nervous system demand..." I should be "training every third in an effort to ensure adequate nervous system recovery" My question is this... What symptoms might I notice if I am not resting adequately? the reason I'm asking is because I've been doing some strength training recently, but have only rested 1min between sets and last week I even worked-out 4 times. I've never given a moments thought to my nervous system (I never knew it was affected. heck, I don't even know what it does!) and it's not like I'm getting increasingly nervous, jittery or whatever. Would there be signs if I'm over working my nervous system?
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

11-13-2007, 10:40 AM	#2
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,426 Photos: 2	Your two questions are not identical (in fact they're almost completely unrelated). The phrase in the book refers to RIs. The longer you rest, the stronger you'll be. That's all it says really.
	My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

11-13-2007, 10:58 AM	#3
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,212 Photos: 1	Both phrases indicate that the structure & timing of the workout is being determined by the demands placed on the Central Nervous System. Since 've never given a moments thought to my Central Nervous System, my question remains the same... What symptoms might I notice if I am not resting adequately? If, for example, I only rest 1minute intead of 3... am I just not giong to get such good results on the next lift and that's all? Or, will the Central Nervous Systyem be damaged/injured in zome way, leading to illness, nervousness, jitters, twitches (whatever)? Again, for example, if I only take one day off between workouts (instead of 3, as recommended) am I just not giong to get such good results on the next workout and that's all? Or, will the Central Nervous Systyem be damaged/injured in zome way, leading to illness, nervousness, jitters, twitches (whatever)? What are the symptoms af an overworked nervous system/ Any? Or just decreased (or sub-optimal) performance?
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

11-13-2007, 11:09 AM	#4
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,426 Photos: 2	Lower RI, lower weight. Less recovery, more fatigue. A went into more detail on the symptoms of overtraining in my FAQ thread.
	My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

11-13-2007, 11:40 AM	#6
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,212 Photos: 1	So you're saying that "Overtraining" & Central-Nervous-System-exhaustion are one and the same? I didn't get that feeling reading Scrawny to Brawny.
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

11-13-2007, 11:36 AM	#5
BulkMeUp ..is bulking up! Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Cana-dah Posts: 5,302	You will face muscular fatigue long before you face CNS fatigue. From what you described above I'd say it is muscular fatigue, if you have been doing that over a short period of time. CNS fatigue takes longer to happen and longer to recover from. Overtraining: What is it? How can you avoid it?

11-13-2007, 11:57 AM	#7
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,426 Photos: 2	Overtraining is a general term for all kinds of overtraining/fatigue. CNS fatigue is one of them.
	My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

11-13-2007, 03:01 PM	#8
buening Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Decatur, IL Posts: 137	Maybe that's why all these kids do more talking than lifting in the gym? They have to have 10 minute RI so they don't fatigue their CNS!

11-13-2007, 03:06 PM	#10
buening Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Decatur, IL Posts: 137	Unless you are doing some insane amount of sets per body group or are lifting heavy without a days rest in between (depending on your programming), you will not likely have problems with your CNS.

11-13-2007, 04:41 PM	#12
buening Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Decatur, IL Posts: 137	Google is your friend Exercise weights progressively decreasing, overall depressed mood, frequent health problems i.e. sickness, muscle loss, hell there are numerous signs but will vary from person to person. It will be quite obvious when your CNS cannot keep up, although not very likely as I said before. Overtraining is in my opinion overrated in weightlifting. Someone's lift suddenly goes down and everyone jumps aboard the "you're overtraining" bus.

11-13-2007, 04:45 PM	#13
buening Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Decatur, IL Posts: 137	http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=755131 Although not exactly an article on CNS fatigue, it does cover some of the basics of why a beginner cannot do high frequency training, which leads to overtraining/CNS fatigue. High frequency.....as in training the same muscle every day. High frequency does not mean short rest intervals between sets, just so we're clear.

11-13-2007, 04:55 PM	#14
Elson blabbermouth Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 69	I've always seen 30s for endurance training, 60s for size, 1.5-3mins for strength and 3-5mins for power..and obviously higher RI means higher weight and less reps..but I'm not sure if they are right. Right now I do a minute to stay kinda in between. Think i'll move to 2mins now after reading that...

11-13-2007, 05:01 PM	#15
buening Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Decatur, IL Posts: 137	In my opinion, rest intervals are dependent on the amount of weight being pushed around and the amount of muscle recruitment. Would you rest the same amount of time after deadlifting 300lbs vs. a dumbbell curl of 50lb? Higher RI for higher weight, but too high and your results will likely decrease. I don't exactly time myself, but i'd venture to guess my RI is around 1 minute for isolation movements and 2 minutes or slightly less for large compound movements like the dead and squat. Just don't overthink things, concentrate more on the form and increasing the weight and concentrate less on the RI and other crap. When you overthink things is when things go wrong

11-13-2007, 06:57 PM	#17
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,212 Photos: 1	Kewl. I'm not going to worry then. Somebody pass me a big-ass weight!
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

11-14-2007, 06:58 AM	#19
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,212 Photos: 1	Witch, I'm putting it together. Bare with me. I might ask more stupid questions here soon!
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

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