kiko

Are deadlifts good for forearms growth and grip strength? Are deadlifts a good substitute for squats?

Unrelated question: Are close-grip bench press and close-grip military press as effective as doing isolation exercises for triceps?

DOMS

Yes.

No. Neither is a good substitute for the other. You should do both.

They're better than stuff like Skullcrushers and Kickbacks. You should also do Dips.

KelJu

The general knowledge around here says DOMS is correct, but I sort of disagree.

I have been deadlifting and heavy shrugging consistently for 3 years now, and my grip strength has improved greatly, but my forearms never grew. I recently figured out that doing wrist-rolls and reverse wrist-rolls stimulated forearm growth that deadlifts and shrugs never did.

DOMS

Yeah, I was focusing just on the strength. I've been using Captains of Crush for the last two months, and I can see the difference in the size, and overall shape, of my forearms.

I really need to measure them and compare them to past measurements.

Gazhole

See thats weird, i found completely the opposite. The human body confuses me.

Though, rather than deadlifts i found the best growth and indeed strength gains in grip/forearms doing DB static holds and plate pinches.

As for the other stuff, like DOMS said - Deadlifts and Squats arent interchangable, theyre different movements utilising different musculature, and should both be included in a program.

Any sort of bench or military press variation are better than isolation stuff if you have to pick one or the other. Bigger, compound movements win out hands down in 90% of situations.

EDIT: As a note, im ordering my CoC #1 gripper tomorrow

http://sdatrainingprograms.blogspot.com - Updated 25/04/08

DOMS

You gotta let me know how you do. I still can't close the fucker (I'm two cm short).

As a matter of fact, I'm trying to close it right now. Yeah, I carry them with me.

AKIRA

Ill throw out a big 10-4

I always did reverse and regular wrist curls and my forearms looked fantastic. But yeah my grip strength sucked. Shit, you can see an addition from me in almost every grip related thread. However, Ive never seen an improvement in looks, but have in strength.

I guess the key is to do both if its that important. Volume would have to be cut though, Id say.

6' 209lbs (8/16)
Bench 360 (11/29)
Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19)
Squat 370
Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17)
NASM certified 2/06
Journal

Gazhole

Shit, this doesnt bode well for me if you cant close it, haha.

I will though, shall be logging it in the journal with everything else.

Do you train it as a part of your regular training sessions, or do it on off days, or what?

The #3 must be insane...

http://sdatrainingprograms.blogspot.com - Updated 25/04/08

DOMS

I have two. I have the Sport, which I keep with me all the time, and a #1, which I use three times a day, or so.

I do static holds and curls.

I need to pick up the Captain, though. It sits right between the Sport and the #1.

I read on CoC website, that if you can close a #3, you can crush a raw potato with one hand.

I'm betting that you can close it.

Gazhole

Yeah, i think i remember this raw potato craziness now...shiiit. Thatd be pretty damned awesome to be able to do that.

And im guessing you were betting on me closing the #1 rather than #3? Either way your money is mine

I cant wait to see what these things are like.

http://sdatrainingprograms.blogspot.com - Updated 25/04/08

kiko

Right now I'm doing squats once a week. Since I workout at home and only have a simple bench, I'm limited to the amount of weight I can "safely" lift above my head which at the moment is 95lbs. I feel I can squat at least 20lbs more. To make up for the lack of weight I'm doing 3 sets of 16 pass parallel with a 90 second rest between sets. I considering upping the reps to 20 (at least for the first two sets). Does more reps (reaching near failure on all sets) have the same effect as more weight with less reps as far as strength and growth hormones release is concern?

Btw, I tried front squats but they are too uncomfortable for me.

Good. I'm trying to avoid unnecessary isolation exercises. I don't know about dips. I don't think my arms are strong enough yet to lift my body weight for more than a couple of reps. I give it a try though. I lost around 70lbs in five months using a low everything diet (protein, fat and carbs) and doing low impact cardio (walking) for over an hour four times a weeks. I found the hard way that a low calories diet + cardio = muscle loss but at the moment losing weight was my priority. I'm still slightly "overweight" mostly because of the stubborn body fat around the torso. Right now I'm in process of trying to get some lean muscle mass. Mainly on my upper body.

KelJu

I have a CoC #1, T, and an S. I can do 3 sets of 15 with the #1. I don't even need the T or S anymore, I just bought them because I didn't know which one I would use the most so i bought all 3.

BigDyl

Try to do indirect forearm work on your back days... like:

Deadlifts, pullups, heavy ass lunges, rows, and maybe some shrugs. Your forearms will grow hardcore, and without any "direct" work. This is assuming diet is in check.

Total ownage.

KelJu

I have done this, but I saw no growth to my forearms. I had to do wrist-rolls to see any progress.

Gazhole

Take a look at Barbell Hack Squats, theyre what i usually do instead of Back Squats.

Alternatively, try some split squats (basically like a stationary lunge).

Dips are pretty tough at first. Try working up from Bench Dips or Pushups as well as training the rest of your body well. Youll get them eventually.

Training legs is also the best way of adding lean mass anywhere. If i had to pick one id choose lower body training.

http://sdatrainingprograms.blogspot.com - Updated 25/04/08

Gazhole

I was thinking of doing that actually. I have no point of reference for this sort of grip training, so at first its annoying, lol.

Do you think you're ready for the #2 yet?

Just a thought, if you're not using the T or S anymore, would you consider selling them to me? I wanted to buy all three from the site, but settled for just the #1 cos of cashflow. Obviously im not talking a huge discount, but if it works out cheaper than off the site

http://sdatrainingprograms.blogspot.com - Updated 25/04/08

KelJu

Send me your address, and I'll mail them to you for free.

Gazhole

PM'd, you're a legend, mate.

Anything you need just drop me note

http://sdatrainingprograms.blogspot.com - Updated 25/04/08

kiko

I don't have a problem with doing back squats except that I'm limited by the amount of weight I can use. I can squat more weight but I'm not strong enough yet to lift more weight above my head and place it on my back. I would like to know if upping the amount of reps would be as beneficial as increasing the amount of weight used.

I tried hack squats once but the barbell kept dragging up back of my thighs on the way up. I was probably doing it wrong. I'll give it another try.

I can do push ups. I can't do a lot but I can do 10 reps. The placement of the hands and how low you go, dictates which muscles get worked more right? Like bench press.

I weight train 3 times a week and have a least a lower body exercise each session (squat, deadlifts, calves raises) but they're not my priority because my legs are the strongest part of my body. Plus I do high impact cardio 2 to 3 times a week (on non weight training days) consisting of running (5-6 mph) for aprox. 1.25 miles followed by walking at a brisk pace to take a breather and finishing with sprinting at intervals.

AKIRA