UFC rocks

i know ever one says bench press is a good mass builder, but is this becasue it builds sevral muscle groups, (chset, triceps and shoulders) so it is a good compound exercise. but are you not only as strong as your weakest link, so wouldn't your shoulders or triceps reach failure frist, when your chest in fact could off gone on for a bit longer.

so for this reason wouldn't flys be a better mass builder for the chest because there is no other muscles being worked in flys (at least i dont think there is).

please dont reply by saying just stick with the compound exercises, because i am doing them all. i just need to know if i was looking to put on some more mass just on the chest, not the shoulders or triceps, then wouldn't flys be better than bench press.

alex p

I think if you could move the same weight utilising flyes then fair enough but as you can more generally heave a hell of a lot more weight doing the bench press then I think thats the reason its a superior mass builder

Witchblade

Your chest will only give out first if it's already the weakest link. Then you have a muscle imbalance and isolation exercises will help you fix it.

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UFC rocks

what about for biceps, are your forarms the weakest link and would they give out first. nealy ever exercise i do for biceps i dont really feel the biceps working much, i mainly feel it in the biceps. the only exercise i really feel the biceps working on are concentrated curls, i really get a good pump from them. i no that pump is not everthing, but it is the only exercise i feel the biceps doing the work and not the forarms. so my question is can i gain mass from concentrated curls.

Witchblade

Even if your forearms give out, your biceps will be able to complete the movement (except if you have REALLY weak forearms so that you can no longer hold the weight), so your biceps will get worked by curls.

You're overthinking things, if you ask me.

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XFatMan

If you for example deadlift serious weights for a few repetitions, you will most likely get to the point where your forearms will give out. That is the point where you should start working your weak body part with isolation exercises. But until that point, isolation exercises are just a waste of time, which is what 99.99% of all beginners and even intermediate lifters can't and don't want to believe or understand. The deadlift, squat, and all the good compound lifts are going to put on more mass on your biceps than any isolation exercise ever will.

Goal: < 15% Body Fat by June 30, 2008
December 30, 2007: Body Weight: 75.8 Kg / 174.3 lbs Body Fat Percentage: 21.9%
Current (January 13, 2008): Body Weight 75.7 Kg / 174.0 lbs Body Fat Percentage: 21.4%

UFC rocks

XFatMan you made some good points but i still think you need some isolation exercises in your workouts. are you telling me that you do no curling movement for your biceps and just relie on them getting worked with your back and are you telling me that you do no isolation work for the triceps and just relie on them getting work with chest and shoulders. i understand were you are coming from i know how important compound exercises are and i do them. but i also do some isolation exercises, not alot but i do think you need some.

XFatMan

I do exactly two isolation exercises: Barbell Curls and Hanging Leg Raises. However, I don't do Barbell Curls to get a bigger biceps; I do them because I find they are what I need for my forearms as they nearly give out on deadlifts. I do Hanging Leg Raises because I believe it will help improve my Squats and Deadlifts. I don't do any other isolation exercises because they're not necessary at this point - and I have been lifting for a while. From your posts I understand that you're a beginner - and for a beginner, isolation exercises are a waste of time.

Goal: < 15% Body Fat by June 30, 2008
December 30, 2007: Body Weight: 75.8 Kg / 174.3 lbs Body Fat Percentage: 21.9%
Current (January 13, 2008): Body Weight 75.7 Kg / 174.0 lbs Body Fat Percentage: 21.4%

UFC rocks

XFatMan is hanging leg raises were you hang from a chin up bar and bring the knees up towards the abs, if so then what muscles get worked doing them.

also is it ture that your forarms can get stronger from just not using straps on any exercises, like chin/pull ups.

UFC rocks

back to my eailer question can i gain mass from concentrated curls?

XFatMan

Yes. The abs are the target muscles.

I don't know because I have never and will never use straps.

If done correctly, any exercise will add mass to the targeted muscle.

Goal: < 15% Body Fat by June 30, 2008
December 30, 2007: Body Weight: 75.8 Kg / 174.3 lbs Body Fat Percentage: 21.9%
Current (January 13, 2008): Body Weight 75.7 Kg / 174.0 lbs Body Fat Percentage: 21.4%

UFC rocks

thanks.

Witchblade

Hanging leg raises only target the abs if you consciously contract them by posteriorly tilting the pelvis though (which is proper form). Otherwise all you're doing is hip flexion.

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AKIRA

Agreed.

I had to really fuck with them (best way I can put it ) in order for my abs to be doing the work.

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buening

Refrain from using straps as long as possible. There are times which mechanically you cannot perform the lift to your potential without straps. An example of this would be a HEAVY deadlift. When you get to that point you won't need to question if straps are required, because you'll have enough knowledge from experience by then.

If you have grip problems, do static holds and/or farmers walks as well as heavy barbell rows and deadlifts.

buening

Typically your body will grow somewhat proportionate. It's often equated that you need to gain 25lbs of lean muscle mass to add an inch to your arms. You won't get guns by doing concentration curls 24/7 if that is what you are asking. Stick to compound lifts and leave the isolation exercises for finishing touches when you are more experienced. Your biceps will grow so much more with chins and rows, and the added mass elsewhere is nice too. Note: biceps are not the primary muscle involved in chins/rows but you are essentially doing more in the same amount of time as concentration curls.

KelJu

If you are doing bench presses, adding flies is a bad idea. You can replace bench press with flies for variation if you want. If you want more growth I wouldn't do flies, I would variate between dumbbell presses and barbell presses, but thats just my opinion.

Also, there are other muscles being worked by flies other than chest. Flies are not a better mass builder than bench presses.

KelJu

It doesn't matter what you feel, and pump is completely irrelevant. What matters is progress and numbers. I haven't gotten a pump in forever.

I saw the most improvement to my biceps when I started working hard at compound movements like pull-ups, chin-ups, and rows. I throw in one isolation movement for biceps at the end of my upper pulling day workout. I usually do dumbbell hammer curls. Again, I feel nothing from the hammer curls. I do however hit failure on the last set, so I know I am working biceps plus I continuously get stronger on the movements.

buening

Couldn't have said it better myself. I prefer hammer curls due to the added bonus of working the brachioradialis. But again, if it were me I would stick to the compound movements and leave the isolations for a few years down the road as a "fine tuning" exercise.

buening

Maybe these will help?

KelJu

Oh, I get that kind of pump every night after looking at:



and

Gazhole

Lanny Barbie?

http://sdatrainingprograms.blogspot.com - Updated 25/04/08

KelJu