Thread: Squat with a bar or dumbbell's

Your squatting 3 times a week? Thats insane, I do legs once a week, but thats me

I think you are over training your legs. What does your program look like?

Dumbells are nasty, very easy to turn the lift into a deadlift variant and the dumbells tend to scratch your things/knees. Good for your shoulders though.

Barbell squats are far better than dumbbell squats.
It seems you're a bit uninformed. In general, you have to do at least one barbell exercise for each bodypart:
Chest - BB bench press
Back - BB row
Shoulders - BB overhead press
Arms - BB curls
Legs - BB squats
These are often called basic exercises

I like how curls are basic, but deadlifts are not.

Originally Posted by Witchblade

I like how curls are basic, but deadlifts are not.

I like how DB squats are good for shoulders

Originally Posted by Metallibanger

I like how DB squats are good for shoulders

This is probably new for you, but barbell back squatting puts your shoulders in a prone position.

Really? ()

Originally Posted by Metallibanger

I like how DB squats are good for shoulders

Straight barbell squats can be tough on someone with low shoulder mobility. Stop biting Witchblade's shit all the time. Go ask any serious powerlifter what years of heavy straight bar squats will do to your shoulders.

Originally Posted by Witchblade

Dumbells are nasty, very easy to turn the lift into a deadlift variant and the dumbells tend to scratch your things/knees. Good for your shoulders though.

Thats quite true. I wanted to try to do DB Squats, but they end up feeling like a Conventional Deadlift with a Trap Bar.

I know if you put the DBs in front of your legs, rather than the sides, thats good for Romanians, but Conventionals? I dont know.

I am stumped on this one.

If you did Squats with DBs at your sides at all times, is it ham dominant or quad dominant? If its quad dominant, then a Trap Bar Deadlift should be quad dominant, right? Fuck!

db squats are great for strength imbalances and force the core to stabilize more wieght. If you are looking for overall mass and power then try some regular BB squats. and although heavy squatting for long periods of time can be bad on your knees you should do other movements to help strengthen the tendons and ligaments, that way your knees will stay strong!

i am an exercise science major and im not to sure about the "low shoulder mobility" correct form and the right weight should be good enough. if im not mistaken you want so "mobility" in your lower shoulder. just throwin that out there!

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Thats quite true. I wanted to try to do DB Squats, but they end up feeling like a Conventional Deadlift with a Trap Bar.

I know if you put the DBs in front of your legs, rather than the sides, thats good for Romanians, but Conventionals? I dont know.

I am stumped on this one.

If you did Squats with DBs at your sides at all times, is it ham dominant or quad dominant? If its quad dominant, then a Trap Bar Deadlift should be quad dominant, right? Fuck!

The trap bar does emphasize the quads more than the hams I think. then again, in my opinion, I don't think a regular conventional deadlift is truly a ham dominant exercise either. RDLs or SLDLs yes, but conventionals, while technically may be ham dominant, I don't really feel they are. I just think they are "whole leg" dominant, like I feel a squat is. They hit both the hams and the quads.

The trap bar or dbs at your sides allow you to keep your torso more upright and therefore you can focus on the quads more. I have tried doing trap bar "squats" before, basically instead of deadlifting the weight off the floor, I just started it off of stands and then held it and did squats. Only difference was that I didn't let the weight hit the floor so there was constant tension, and I had a lowering phase instead of the deadlift where it was just a concentric phase.

I think the trap bar or dbs are a good substitute for squats, only benefit to back squats is that the weight is on your back and supporting the weight up there has huge benefits, also, I am sure your grip would be a limiting factor in the amount of weight you could use. I am sure lots of people can squat 405 with the weight on their back for reps, how many can hold it in their hands for the duration of a set?

Originally Posted by jwalk127

i am an exercise science major and im not to sure about the "low shoulder mobility" correct form and the right weight should be good enough. if im not mistaken you want so "mobility" in your lower shoulder. just throwin that out there!

What do you have to do to hold a barbell when squatting? Hold the bar. Where is the bar? Behind you neck. Does your average person have the shoulder mobility to move a bar behing their neck? No. But where is the bar regardless? Behind the neck, placing the shoulders in an isometric position with a significant load.

The body should not have to be forced into a foreign position to do work. Shoulder articulation is an aspect of squatting form. People with low shoulder mobility should place their place their hands closer to their shoulders(like an olympic squat, reducing abuduction which puts the shoulder in a less vunerable position) or not do them at all. Maybe replacing the back squat with a front squat, DB squat or using a safety bar to back squat.

Originally Posted by fufu

What do you have to do to hold a barbell when squatting? Hold the bar. Where is the bar? Behind you neck. Does your average person have the shoulder mobility to move a bar behing their neck? No. But where is the bar regardless? Behind the neck, placing the shoulders in an isometric position with a significant load.

The body should not have to be forced into a foreign position to do work. Shoulder articulation is an aspect of squatting form. People with low shoulder mobility should place their place their hands closer to their shoulders(like an olympic squat, reducing abuduction which puts the shoulder in a less vunerable position) or not do them at all. Maybe replacing the back squat with a front squat, DB squat or using a safety bar to back squat.

wouldn't placing the hands wider apart take the stress off the shoulders when holding the bar? I know for me personally, my shoulders feel a lot better when I hold the bar way out by the plates as opposed to shoulder width or thereabouts.

k-so lets talk about the foriegn position. Nobody ever said that weight lifting is supposed to comfortable all the time. any body can move a bar behind the neck if they have the common sense to adjust themselves. the bar cannot be moved then there is to much weight on the damn thing to begin with!!! also there are several movements in bodybuilding that are foriegn to begin with. if someone cannot handle the bar or they are I guess "AVERAGE" then drop the fuckin weights and find another damn hobby!

if someone is worried about stress on the shoulders and mobility problems then stop lifting. several movements involve the shoulders. It your going to lift weights, your goin to work the shoulders!

dont get me wrong...everybody has their comfort zone

Originally Posted by Stewart20

wouldn't placing the hands wider apart take the stress off the shoulders when holding the bar? I know for me personally, my shoulders feel a lot better when I hold the bar way out by the plates as opposed to shoulder width or thereabouts.

now that you mention that I've seen someone do that particular excersice with there arms spread around the bar (almost touching the plates). Makes sense to give it a shot.

Originally Posted by jwalk127

if someone is worried about stress on the shoulders and mobility problems then stop lifting. several movements involve the shoulders. It your going to lift weights, your goin to work the shoulders!

Its not about working the shoulder muscles, its the MOBILITY of the joint and 'positioning' those muscles. In this case, their role in supporting the bar in back squats.

Like not everybody has the ankle mobility to be able to squat properly, or at least go particularly low in the movement.

Mobility needs to be worked on before putting yourself in a prone position and risking injury, but like Fufu said - there are alternatives that arent so stressful on those areas, like Front Squats etc etc.

First thanks for the input.

Ok the program I am following is the Bill Starr 5X5 so as far as I am concerned it a well proven program, as for over training I don’t think I am.

These are the basic exercises I do (not all on the same day)
Mon medium, Wed light and Friday heavy weight
Chest - DB bench press
Back - BB Bent row
Shoulders - BB overhead press
Legs - DB Deep squats
And BB deadlifts.

As for extras. (Not all on the same day)
DB Preacher Curls
Triceps weighted dips
Weighted decline sit-ups
Weighted Hyperextensions

When it come to position of the body when squatting I am keeping my back straight, butt out and the dumbbell at my sides and the movement is the same as if I was using a bar. I do from time to time move myself to a more deadlift prone position just to mix it up a bit.

So guys/girls are there any downside to what I am doing and how can I combat any negative effect due to me doing DB squats as opposed to BB squats.

orsum

Originally Posted by Stewart20

wouldn't placing the hands wider apart take the stress off the shoulders when holding the bar? I know for me personally, my shoulders feel a lot better when I hold the bar way out by the plates as opposed to shoulder width or thereabouts.

Well just imagine a really wide bench press grip or overhead press grip. The force is being exerted through the shoulder joint into the hands. Placing the hands further apart puts them further away from their fulcrum, making them more vunerable.

I'm not going to tell you are wrong because your hand placement works well for you, some people are built differently. When I go from an olympic back squat to a PL style squat it takes me a bit(few weeks) to get accustomed to putting my hand out wider because of discomfort. That is for me personally depending on my flexibility at the time. I have also read in several articles that placing the hands closer to the body is a good way to alleviate shoulder discomfort.

People are built with different mechanics and people have different needs. This is an internet forum so I am going to give advice that is general.