Possible new split, need some help

HeyWaj10 · 03-30-2008, 12:35 PM

I'm looking to get back into the P/RR/S routine again, only my focus is going to initially be placed on improving my overall strength gains. Therefore, I plan on setting it up to be P/RR/P/S, etc.

As for my weekly split, I'm looking to set it up to be a 4-day split consisting of:

Monday: Push
Tuesday: Legs (Quad Dominant)
Wednesday: OFF
Thursday: Pull
Friday: Legs (Ham Dominant)
Saturday and Sunday: OFF

I'll be working compound movements for the first two exercises and unilateral for the second two exercises, finishing off with some sort of isolation for the last exercise. I'm still trying to figure out how to properly incorporate my isolation core movements, despite the fact my core will be heavily worked as it is with the compound movements.

As for my complete outline of the program, I don't have that all together. Despite the fact that it'll be lengthy, would you guys mind taking a look at it later?

Am I initially set up straight here (ie. my split)?

Let me know, thanks guys.

**Built** · 03-30-2008, 02:23 PM

Hey

This might help you - it's a split I wrote a few years ago and a lot of people seem to like it. It's based on the Ian King principals you appear to be looking at.

Got Built? » Baby Got Back
It was also published here: Wanna Be Big Bodybuilding: Articles by MariAnne Anderson

biggfly · 03-30-2008, 02:39 PM

Doing that split right now...a few excercises variance here and there, but I love it. Just switched to it 2 weeks ago...I do high intensity(heavy wght low rep) one week, then high endurance next week.

**Built** · 03-30-2008, 03:50 PM

Interesting about the intensity/endurance variation you toss in - how do you do the endurance version, and do you change your diet at all when you do this?

biggfly · 03-30-2008, 04:02 PM

For the endurance I increase the reps at a lower weight...so if my intensity week is 4-5 sets of 4-5 reps of heavy weights with a bit longer RI in between sets due to the heavy weight, the endurance is 4 sets of 12-15 reps, short RI's, and rapid, controlled reps. Keep my diet as is. My body reacts well to this sort of "periodization" very well.

biggfly · 03-30-2008, 04:07 PM

Take one compound excercise for instance...flat barbell bench press. High intensity days(heavier weight) I will do my 5 sets of 4-5 reps at 85% of my 1Rep max. Endurance days I will do my 4 sets of 12-15 reps at about 70% of 1RM.

Irons77 · 03-30-2008, 04:17 PM

That is interesting. One week heavy then the next light? Is that good for cutting?

biggfly · 03-30-2008, 05:00 PM

Seems to be a nice balance...I may go 2 weeks high intensity, 3rd week endurance. It lets my joints etc. have a break from the weights, plus never hurts to have strength plus endurance.Doing high reps won't give you a "cut" muscle as you often hear people say...but the energy exerted in the efforts could put you in caloric deficit mode. Take bench...heavy(315 for 4 reps...thats 1260 lbs. for that set)...light (260 12 reps thats 3120 lbs for that set). I think I read where on a heavy day, sometimes the neurological(?) gives out before the muscle fibers due to the sheer weight. As when endurance you can fully fatigue the fibers...maybe?? Thought that was how I read it or understood it.

**Built** · 03-30-2008, 08:17 PM

I wouldn't do this for cutting - although you could run a deficit during the heavy portion, and eat at maintenance for the higher-rep weeks.

For cutting, I'm thinking three weeks of heavy, one back-off week might be a nice mix.

You're not going SUPER high reps, either, so it's not like you're doing iron cardio.

Definitely tucking this into my back pocket for further thought.

Irons77 · 03-30-2008, 08:38 PM

Do you have a good 3-day split for cutting that I can look into? I'm eating 500 calories less then my maintain intake. With a p/c/f ratio of 30/50/20. Thanks

**Built** · 03-30-2008, 09:07 PM

You might want to reconsider your approach to dieting if you're still looking to ratios.

What is your lbm, and what is your maintenance?

Irons77 · 03-30-2008, 09:16 PM

M y lean mass is 155lbs. and my maintence is about 2700cals. daily

**Built** · 03-30-2008, 09:20 PM

You ever used a carb-cycling approach? What bodyfat are you at?

Irons77 · 03-30-2008, 09:23 PM

no I don't know a whole lot about that. My bodyfat% is 19.7

biggfly · 03-30-2008, 09:37 PM

No this is definitely not a cutting split or routine. But it does stray a little off the bulking splits, if your diet is in place as well with it. I like the 3 weeks intensity, 1 week back off. May explore that. Not doing SUPER high volume reps on endurance weeks, as the weight on those sets is still significant enough to reach fatigue @ 12 reps, and needing 1-2 mins RI...so def not a cardio/circuit type routine. I enjoy mixing it up, and trying new ways to improve and keep myself fresh, and the muscles guessing. Helps mentally, as a monotanous, stale routine can ruin your drive and motivation.

**Built** · 03-30-2008, 09:39 PM

Okay, so I'll assume you want to get down to around 10-12%, that about right?

Can you describe how you've been training currently? What do you squat, bench, dead? Do you do chins and dips? Any cardio, intervals?

Irons77 · 03-30-2008, 09:54 PM

10-12 is my goal by late May early June
I do a 3-day split on Mon, Wed, Fri
Cardio on Tues and Thurs. Jogging 1-1.5 milese a day
I have not maxed in about 3 months, but bench was at 220 and squat 260
I don't do dead but I will
BW Dips, 3 sets of 8, along with chins and pull ups

**Built** · 03-30-2008, 10:04 PM

Okay, cool - strong lad. Awesome.

You ever do any interval training? Sprints?
How many grams of protein and fat do you usually consume?

Irons77 · 03-30-2008, 10:15 PM

Sprints I'm going to start tues after my jog
Interval training no
Protein intake is 150-165g a day and fats is 50-60g a day all from foods

**Built** · 03-30-2008, 10:23 PM

Sprints are a form of interval training, so that's great that you have them planned. Do them before you do any steady-state cardio, just like you should lift before you do any form of steady state cardio.

Okay - so you're at around 192 lbs and you want to get down to about 172 lbs in two months, right? That's a lot of weight to drop in two months.

You ever done a cut before?

Irons77 · 03-30-2008, 10:28 PM

no first time I can do it.

**Built** · 03-30-2008, 10:37 PM

Well, your goal is overly optimistic. You intend to run a 500 calorie a day deficit - if you're lucky and do everything right, that means you'll lose a pound a week of bodyfat.

There are only 8 weeks between now and the first of June.

You see the problem.

You should be able to diet down a pound a week and hang onto your mass on the way down to 10%, but faster will most certainly drop muscle unless you're assisted.

Are you planning on doing this natty, or will you be running a cycle?

Irons77 · 03-30-2008, 10:56 PM

No cycle all natty
I see the problem
I'll work hard and 10% maybe a little farther down the road but I will get there.

**Built** · 03-30-2008, 11:00 PM

Well, let's shoot for a pound a week and it'll just take you longer than you wanted. You okay with that?

Irons77 · 03-30-2008, 11:07 PM

Yes I am!

**Built** · 03-30-2008, 11:14 PM

Okay, cool.

The rest of this by PM - then you can post it up in your log.

biggfly · 03-30-2008, 11:50 PM

Well hell, my turn then. I am at 12% BF and want single digits. Bio is as follows:
35 yrs. old
6'0 207 lbs
bench: 405
squat:415
weighted dips(45 lb plate) 4x20 reps
deadlift: no 1 rep max but 325 3x8
2-3 days HIIT cardio...6 minute warmup jog @ 6 mph...sprint 45 secs@ 12 mph zero incline...slow jog for 45 secs @ 4.5 mph....do this for 15-18 mins or until fatigue no longer allows the sprint.

Diet is 3300-3500 cals/day
Protein is minimum of 200 gram/day with 3 whey shakes/day(75 g total) 1 casein b4 bed (24 grams). Rest is food protein...chick,fish, nuts,cottage cheese. Carbs depends...fat 70-100 grams no saturated of course.

What is my number one element I need to concentrate on...caloric deficit?? Get down to 2800+/- cals/day?? More cardio??

**Built** · 03-31-2008, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggfly

Well hell, my turn then. I am at 12% BF and want single digits. Bio is as follows:
35 yrs. old
6'0 207 lbs
bench: 405
squat:415
weighted dips(45 lb plate) 4x20 reps
deadlift: no 1 rep max but 325 3x8
2-3 days HIIT cardio...6 minute warmup jog @ 6 mph...sprint 45 secs@ 12 mph zero incline...slow jog for 45 secs @ 4.5 mph....do this for 15-18 mins or until fatigue no longer allows the sprint.

Diet is 3300-3500 cals/day
Protein is minimum of 200 gram/day with 3 whey shakes/day(75 g total) 1 casein b4 bed (24 grams). Rest is food protein...chick,fish, nuts,cottage cheese. Carbs depends...fat 70-100 grams no saturated of course.

What is my number one element I need to concentrate on...caloric deficit?? Get down to 2800+/- cals/day?? More cardio??

Oooh, another taker!

You're maintaining currently?

PS you are one strong and fast mofo! I can only do 12 MPH sprints for about ten seconds!

Why no saturated fat? Your body needs saturated fat!

biggfly · 03-31-2008, 12:21 AM

Football since 5th grade through college, and just couldn't shake the madness of the whole workout thing!!! I am a single dad, getting older, so I get neurotic, obsessive about my physical being!!! Being a single dad, I don;t do much but work, work out, and spend all my time with my son when he is not at school. I don't really do much, unless it can involve him...i.e go out and socialize, etc. No drinking. Sorry I was rambling!!!
TO answer, yes I am maintaining currently.

**Built** · 03-31-2008, 12:30 AM

Supps? AAS or natty?

03-30-2008, 12:35 PM	#1
HeyWaj10 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 48 Photos: 5	Possible new split, need some help BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com I'm looking to get back into the P/RR/S routine again, only my focus is going to initially be placed on improving my overall strength gains. Therefore, I plan on setting it up to be P/RR/P/S, etc. As for my weekly split, I'm looking to set it up to be a 4-day split consisting of: Monday: Push Tuesday: Legs (Quad Dominant) Wednesday: OFF Thursday: Pull Friday: Legs (Ham Dominant) Saturday and Sunday: OFF I'll be working compound movements for the first two exercises and unilateral for the second two exercises, finishing off with some sort of isolation for the last exercise. I'm still trying to figure out how to properly incorporate my isolation core movements, despite the fact my core will be heavily worked as it is with the compound movements. As for my complete outline of the program, I don't have that all together. Despite the fact that it'll be lengthy, would you guys mind taking a look at it later? Am I initially set up straight here (ie. my split)? Let me know, thanks guys.

03-30-2008, 04:17 PM	#7
Irons77 Training like a bitch Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 822	That is interesting. One week heavy then the next light? Is that good for cutting?
	Soreness is weakness exiting the body.

03-30-2008, 08:38 PM	#10
Irons77 Training like a bitch Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 822	Do you have a good 3-day split for cutting that I can look into? I'm eating 500 calories less then my maintain intake. With a p/c/f ratio of 30/50/20. Thanks
	Soreness is weakness exiting the body.

03-30-2008, 09:16 PM	#12
Irons77 Training like a bitch Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 822	M y lean mass is 155lbs. and my maintence is about 2700cals. daily
	Soreness is weakness exiting the body.

03-30-2008, 09:23 PM	#14
Irons77 Training like a bitch Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 822	no I don't know a whole lot about that. My bodyfat% is 19.7
	Soreness is weakness exiting the body.

03-30-2008, 02:23 PM	#2
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,497	Hey This might help you - it's a split I wrote a few years ago and a lot of people seem to like it. It's based on the Ian King principals you appear to be looking at. Got Built? » Baby Got Back It was also published here: Wanna Be Big Bodybuilding: Articles by MariAnne Anderson

03-30-2008, 02:39 PM	#3
biggfly Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: u.s.a Posts: 431 Photos: 2	Doing that split right now...a few excercises variance here and there, but I love it. Just switched to it 2 weeks ago...I do high intensity(heavy wght low rep) one week, then high endurance next week.

03-30-2008, 03:50 PM	#4
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,497	Interesting about the intensity/endurance variation you toss in - how do you do the endurance version, and do you change your diet at all when you do this?

03-30-2008, 04:02 PM	#5
biggfly Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: u.s.a Posts: 431 Photos: 2	For the endurance I increase the reps at a lower weight...so if my intensity week is 4-5 sets of 4-5 reps of heavy weights with a bit longer RI in between sets due to the heavy weight, the endurance is 4 sets of 12-15 reps, short RI's, and rapid, controlled reps. Keep my diet as is. My body reacts well to this sort of "periodization" very well.

03-30-2008, 04:07 PM	#6
biggfly Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: u.s.a Posts: 431 Photos: 2	Take one compound excercise for instance...flat barbell bench press. High intensity days(heavier weight) I will do my 5 sets of 4-5 reps at 85% of my 1Rep max. Endurance days I will do my 4 sets of 12-15 reps at about 70% of 1RM.

03-30-2008, 05:00 PM	#8
biggfly Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: u.s.a Posts: 431 Photos: 2	Seems to be a nice balance...I may go 2 weeks high intensity, 3rd week endurance. It lets my joints etc. have a break from the weights, plus never hurts to have strength plus endurance.Doing high reps won't give you a "cut" muscle as you often hear people say...but the energy exerted in the efforts could put you in caloric deficit mode. Take bench...heavy(315 for 4 reps...thats 1260 lbs. for that set)...light (260 12 reps thats 3120 lbs for that set). I think I read where on a heavy day, sometimes the neurological(?) gives out before the muscle fibers due to the sheer weight. As when endurance you can fully fatigue the fibers...maybe?? Thought that was how I read it or understood it.

03-30-2008, 08:17 PM	#9
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,497	I wouldn't do this for cutting - although you could run a deficit during the heavy portion, and eat at maintenance for the higher-rep weeks. For cutting, I'm thinking three weeks of heavy, one back-off week might be a nice mix. You're not going SUPER high reps, either, so it's not like you're doing iron cardio. Definitely tucking this into my back pocket for further thought.

03-30-2008, 09:07 PM	#11
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,497	You might want to reconsider your approach to dieting if you're still looking to ratios. What is your lbm, and what is your maintenance?

03-30-2008, 09:20 PM	#13
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,497	You ever used a carb-cycling approach? What bodyfat are you at?

03-30-2008, 09:37 PM	#15
biggfly Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: u.s.a Posts: 431 Photos: 2	No this is definitely not a cutting split or routine. But it does stray a little off the bulking splits, if your diet is in place as well with it. I like the 3 weeks intensity, 1 week back off. May explore that. Not doing SUPER high volume reps on endurance weeks, as the weight on those sets is still significant enough to reach fatigue @ 12 reps, and needing 1-2 mins RI...so def not a cardio/circuit type routine. I enjoy mixing it up, and trying new ways to improve and keep myself fresh, and the muscles guessing. Helps mentally, as a monotanous, stale routine can ruin your drive and motivation.

03-30-2008, 09:39 PM	#16
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,497	Okay, so I'll assume you want to get down to around 10-12%, that about right? Can you describe how you've been training currently? What do you squat, bench, dead? Do you do chins and dips? Any cardio, intervals?

03-30-2008, 09:54 PM	#17
Irons77 Training like a bitch Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 822	10-12 is my goal by late May early June I do a 3-day split on Mon, Wed, Fri Cardio on Tues and Thurs. Jogging 1-1.5 milese a day I have not maxed in about 3 months, but bench was at 220 and squat 260 I don't do dead but I will BW Dips, 3 sets of 8, along with chins and pull ups
	Soreness is weakness exiting the body.

03-30-2008, 10:04 PM	#18
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,497	Okay, cool - strong lad. Awesome. You ever do any interval training? Sprints? How many grams of protein and fat do you usually consume?

03-30-2008, 10:15 PM	#19
Irons77 Training like a bitch Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 822	Sprints I'm going to start tues after my jog Interval training no Protein intake is 150-165g a day and fats is 50-60g a day all from foods
	Soreness is weakness exiting the body.

03-30-2008, 10:23 PM	#20
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,497	Sprints are a form of interval training, so that's great that you have them planned. Do them before you do any steady-state cardio, just like you should lift before you do any form of steady state cardio. Okay - so you're at around 192 lbs and you want to get down to about 172 lbs in two months, right? That's a lot of weight to drop in two months. You ever done a cut before?

03-30-2008, 10:28 PM	#21
Irons77 Training like a bitch Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 822	no first time I can do it.
	Soreness is weakness exiting the body.

03-30-2008, 10:37 PM	#22
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,497	Well, your goal is overly optimistic. You intend to run a 500 calorie a day deficit - if you're lucky and do everything right, that means you'll lose a pound a week of bodyfat. There are only 8 weeks between now and the first of June. You see the problem. You should be able to diet down a pound a week and hang onto your mass on the way down to 10%, but faster will most certainly drop muscle unless you're assisted. Are you planning on doing this natty, or will you be running a cycle?

03-30-2008, 10:56 PM	#23
Irons77 Training like a bitch Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 822	No cycle all natty I see the problem I'll work hard and 10% maybe a little farther down the road but I will get there.
	Soreness is weakness exiting the body.

03-30-2008, 11:00 PM	#24
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,497	Well, let's shoot for a pound a week and it'll just take you longer than you wanted. You okay with that?

03-30-2008, 11:07 PM	#25
Irons77 Training like a bitch Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 822	Yes I am!
	Soreness is weakness exiting the body.

03-30-2008, 11:14 PM	#26
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,497	Okay, cool. The rest of this by PM - then you can post it up in your log.

03-30-2008, 11:50 PM	#27
biggfly Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: u.s.a Posts: 431 Photos: 2	Well hell, my turn then. I am at 12% BF and want single digits. Bio is as follows: 35 yrs. old 6'0 207 lbs bench: 405 squat:415 weighted dips(45 lb plate) 4x20 reps deadlift: no 1 rep max but 325 3x8 2-3 days HIIT cardio...6 minute warmup jog @ 6 mph...sprint 45 secs@ 12 mph zero incline...slow jog for 45 secs @ 4.5 mph....do this for 15-18 mins or until fatigue no longer allows the sprint. Diet is 3300-3500 cals/day Protein is minimum of 200 gram/day with 3 whey shakes/day(75 g total) 1 casein b4 bed (24 grams). Rest is food protein...chick,fish, nuts,cottage cheese. Carbs depends...fat 70-100 grams no saturated of course. What is my number one element I need to concentrate on...caloric deficit?? Get down to 2800+/- cals/day?? More cardio??

03-31-2008, 12:21 AM	#29
biggfly Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: u.s.a Posts: 431 Photos: 2	Football since 5th grade through college, and just couldn't shake the madness of the whole workout thing!!! I am a single dad, getting older, so I get neurotic, obsessive about my physical being!!! Being a single dad, I don;t do much but work, work out, and spend all my time with my son when he is not at school. I don't really do much, unless it can involve him...i.e go out and socialize, etc. No drinking. Sorry I was rambling!!! TO answer, yes I am maintaining currently.

03-31-2008, 12:30 AM	#30
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,497	Supps? AAS or natty?