squatting and deadlifting for fighters

danny81 · 05-02-2008, 09:24 PM

WTF. ken shamrock said it is a very bad idea for fighters to do them.

what do you guys say about it?

JonnyStead · 05-03-2008, 05:53 AM

When I trained with boxers (before I decided I was too much of a nancy to get in the ring!) I didnt see hardly any heavy weight work going on - mostly body weight exercises... Ken is a bit of a legend...

UFC rocks · 05-03-2008, 07:45 AM

i thinks its because if you do them the next day your legs will be really sore, so it will be harder to train, imagen standing on your feet all day rotateing around a puch bag and hitting it, or spareing with someone and trying to push them up against the cage, with really sore legs.

Its like JonnyStead said you dont see a lot of heavy weight work becasue they will be sore the next day making traing much harder. when i have a push day and work the shoulders and go on the puch bag the next day i find it really hard on my shoulders because they are so sore.

But i must say, some off those MMA fighters are in really good shape, and some are really big, have you seen ken samrocks arms there huge.

JonnyStead · 05-03-2008, 09:49 AM

It is insane just how big and strong, and quick those MMA guys can be - I have a huge amount of respect for them. I guess in boxing terms, you also want to be as strong and light as possible - if you pack on too much muscle on the legs you're going to go up a weight class and end up in there with some bloke who is cutting down to be that weight - which has to be bad news for your face!

Witchblade · 05-03-2008, 10:19 AM

I say it's retarded. Squats and deadlifts are fundamental to strength training.

Nate K · 05-03-2008, 10:21 AM

yeah they make you strenght and you want to be strong if your fighting people.

If you want to have muscle anywhere it would be the legs....why would you not want muscle on your legs.....you can always drop weight

JonnyStead · 05-03-2008, 11:01 AM

Hey look I'm not Ken Shamrock you know!

I dont fight but I know plenty of boxers and they're all a little 'top heavy' you know? big up top and little legs - just making an observation!

Its worth saying that Tito Ortiz said, when he was on TUF and someone commented on him having really thin legs "How do you think I make weight?!" so I dont think I'm just blowing smoke.

Goodfella9783 · 05-03-2008, 11:53 AM

I'd say squats would be better for mixed martial artists for all that scooping and slamming, kicking, shooting for takedowns, leg submissions, and so on.

For boxing it's more about body weight exercises or light/moderately weighted exercises: pushups, situps, dips, pull ups, etc. And then a ton of running, skipping rope, I see a lot of boxers slamming huge tires with sledge hammers and doing medicine ball routines. I don't see how some light squats or deadlifts could hurt but you honestly don't see them that much for boxing. I hear a lot of guys say they stiffin them up too much (no homo). Definately see it more in the MMA training though.

Goodfella9783 · 05-03-2008, 11:54 AM

YouTube Video

**DOMS** · 05-03-2008, 12:02 PM

I started doing Krav Maga a little over a month and pretty stopped working out until yesterday. What I had to do was carefully tailor my workouts so that they wouldn't burn me out for my Krav workouts.

I've made them very shot, in terms of time, but have kept the intensity up with the goal of still increasing my PRs. There's no way in hell that I'd give up doing the big three (squats, deads, and bench).

I also think that it comes down to timing. I don't think that it's sound to workout with weights (for strength) more than three times a week.

That's just my two cents.

KentDog · 05-03-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodfella9783

YouTube Video

Thanks for this video; I hadn't previously seen any footage of Judah training before, let alone during this time period (when he only had one loss). Too bad Spinks beat him.

Goodfella9783 · 05-03-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KentDog

Thanks for this video; I hadn't previously seen any footage of Judah training before, let alone during this time period (when he only had one loss). Too bad Spinks beat him.

No prob. This was actually before the fight where Zab knocked Spinks out, not the first fight. But yeah, Zab training footage is hard to come by.

danny81 · 05-03-2008, 01:10 PM

The reason boxers are top heavy is because all your punching power comes from your upper body obliques, abs, chest, and arms

Goodfella9783 · 05-03-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny81

The reason boxers are top heavy is because all your punching power comes from your upper body obliques, abs, chest, and arms

Hips.

danny81 · 05-03-2008, 01:42 PM

Yah hips too.

goob · 05-03-2008, 01:48 PM

A high proportion of your punching power comes from the hips. Legs support the hips, so strong legs will invariably help your punching power.

Danny, just keep doing them, it will make you all around stronger, and with other training, you will become better for it.

danny81 · 05-03-2008, 01:52 PM

I busted my elbow in an BJJ match and i busted my wrist on some dudes head at aparty who was talking shit so i cant realy do heavy weights for a while so im doing strictly bodyweight right now.

CORUM · 05-03-2008, 02:09 PM

you sound injury prone, you may want to find another profetion!!

KentDog · 05-03-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodfella9783

No prob. This was actually before the fight where Zab knocked Spinks out, not the first fight. But yeah, Zab training footage is hard to come by.

Ah, even better. That was a good rematch.

**P-funk** · 05-03-2008, 03:43 PM

I wouldn't be focusing on trying to hit 1RM's or anything like that, since it is the opposite of the goal of boxing. But, training the lower extremity is very important.

CORUM · 05-03-2008, 04:08 PM

In all honestly you can argue this all day and still not have an answer. generally you would be using or working your legs every day in MMA. some will say add to it and some would say what's the point because they are being worked everyday. sprints, shooting, throwing, lifting, and the list goes on, plus the sprints and other running exercises. You do some variety of that EVERYDAY, do you really think you need to add to that? Plus I stated before on this MMA training subject the bulkier you get, the easier you will tire out. Also you will move slower!!! No need to really add weights unless your trying to move up in weight, but then your going to meet up with guys about 20 pounds heavier than you who come down to that weight. I would seriously leave legs to a bodyweight workout. Or if you add weight I would do just the bar, and lung around then immediatly into some squats things like that. Squat jumps work WONDERS!!!!

danny81 · 05-03-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CORUM

you sound injury prone, you may want to find another profetion!!

MIKE TYSON BROKE HIS WRIST IN STREET FIGHTS ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!

CORUM · 05-03-2008, 05:43 PM

It happens!!! I've broke my hand five different times fighting, if you getting upset about that you need to work on thickening that skin before you go and try and be a fighter!!! They will say much worse!!

fufu · 05-03-2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny81

WTF. ken shamrock said it is a very bad idea for fighters to do them.

what do you guys say about it?

Ken Shamrock isn't an exercise physiologist.

They can most definitely be incorperated into a fighter's training program.

AKIRA · 05-03-2008, 07:03 PM

Id never really take the advice of Ken Shamrock.

The only thing I can think of that would make his statement logical is to avoid injury.

CORUM · 05-03-2008, 07:07 PM

Oh plus about Ken Shamrock, did you see the size of his legs when he fought kimo? They didn't get that way with out lifting I's sure he did serious squats, but I always feel his cardio is lacking, he big ass hell but look at him after one round! it was better when he was younger. EARLY UFC days, but he wasn't near as big then. Bottom line what works for one person wont work for another, try it out and see how you feel. Go to a small show and try to get on the card and see how you do. You have to test yourself!! and see how the squats and deadlifts work for you. If it makes you too bulky and slows you down and you get tired quicker try something different. Good Luck!!!

**P-funk** · 05-03-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufu

Ken Shamrock isn't an exercise physiologist.

They can most definitely be incorperated into a fighter's training program.

this man speaks the truth!

The thing to remeber about training for any sport....fighting, boxing, football, baseball, whatever.....is that you have to understand the characteristics of the sport and how they apply to the athlete you are working with. This comes down to your testing of the athlete and determination of what their limiting factors are. Training for powerlifting or training for bodybuilding, are probably not going to be the best ways to prepare for a match. You have to understand your sport in order to apply the training.

**P-funk** · 05-03-2008, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CORUM

Oh plus about Ken Shamrock, did you see the size of his legs when he fought kimo? They didn't get that way with out lifting I's sure he did serious squats, but I always feel his cardio is lacking, he big ass hell but look at him after one round! it was better when he was younger. EARLY UFC days, but he wasn't near as big then. Bottom line what works for one person wont work for another, try it out and see how you feel. Go to a small show and try to get on the card and see how you do. You have

05-02-2008, 09:24 PM	#1
danny81 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,282	squatting and deadlifting for fighters BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com WTF. ken shamrock said it is a very bad idea for fighters to do them. what do you guys say about it?
danny81 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,282	http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/on...preciated.html Aiyyo it's off with his head/Cock the lead redecorate the crib burgandy red

05-03-2008, 05:53 AM	#2
JonnyStead Good old English grit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: England Posts: 374 Photos: 4	When I trained with boxers (before I decided I was too much of a nancy to get in the ring!) I didnt see hardly any heavy weight work going on - mostly body weight exercises... Ken is a bit of a legend...
	I'm 34 - when am I officially an old fart?

05-03-2008, 09:49 AM	#4
JonnyStead Good old English grit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: England Posts: 374 Photos: 4	It is insane just how big and strong, and quick those MMA guys can be - I have a huge amount of respect for them. I guess in boxing terms, you also want to be as strong and light as possible - if you pack on too much muscle on the legs you're going to go up a weight class and end up in there with some bloke who is cutting down to be that weight - which has to be bad news for your face!
	I'm 34 - when am I officially an old fart?

05-03-2008, 10:19 AM	#5
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 3,944 Photos: 2	I say it's retarded. Squats and deadlifts are fundamental to strength training.
	My Journal My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

05-03-2008, 11:01 AM	#7
JonnyStead Good old English grit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: England Posts: 374 Photos: 4	Hey look I'm not Ken Shamrock you know! I dont fight but I know plenty of boxers and they're all a little 'top heavy' you know? big up top and little legs - just making an observation! Its worth saying that Tito Ortiz said, when he was on TUF and someone commented on him having really thin legs "How do you think I make weight?!" so I dont think I'm just blowing smoke.
	I'm 34 - when am I officially an old fart?

05-03-2008, 07:45 AM	#3
UFC rocks Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: England Posts: 202	i thinks its because if you do them the next day your legs will be really sore, so it will be harder to train, imagen standing on your feet all day rotateing around a puch bag and hitting it, or spareing with someone and trying to push them up against the cage, with really sore legs. Its like JonnyStead said you dont see a lot of heavy weight work becasue they will be sore the next day making traing much harder. when i have a push day and work the shoulders and go on the puch bag the next day i find it really hard on my shoulders because they are so sore. But i must say, some off those MMA fighters are in really good shape, and some are really big, have you seen ken samrocks arms there huge.

05-03-2008, 10:21 AM	#6
Nate K Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,593 Photos: 3	yeah they make you strenght and you want to be strong if your fighting people. If you want to have muscle anywhere it would be the legs....why would you not want muscle on your legs.....you can always drop weight

05-03-2008, 11:53 AM	#8
Goodfella9783 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,889	I'd say squats would be better for mixed martial artists for all that scooping and slamming, kicking, shooting for takedowns, leg submissions, and so on. For boxing it's more about body weight exercises or light/moderately weighted exercises: pushups, situps, dips, pull ups, etc. And then a ton of running, skipping rope, I see a lot of boxers slamming huge tires with sledge hammers and doing medicine ball routines. I don't see how some light squats or deadlifts could hurt but you honestly don't see them that much for boxing. I hear a lot of guys say they stiffin them up too much (no homo). Definately see it more in the MMA training though.

05-03-2008, 01:10 PM	#13
danny81 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,282	The reason boxers are top heavy is because all your punching power comes from your upper body obliques, abs, chest, and arms
danny81 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,282	http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/on...preciated.html Aiyyo it's off with his head/Cock the lead redecorate the crib burgandy red

05-03-2008, 01:42 PM	#15
danny81 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,282	Yah hips too.
danny81 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,282	http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/on...preciated.html Aiyyo it's off with his head/Cock the lead redecorate the crib burgandy red

05-03-2008, 01:48 PM	#16
goob Smartass anthropologist Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Anywhere, everywhere, nowhere.... Posts: 5,345	A high proportion of your punching power comes from the hips. Legs support the hips, so strong legs will invariably help your punching power. Danny, just keep doing them, it will make you all around stronger, and with other training, you will become better for it.

05-03-2008, 01:52 PM	#17
danny81 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,282	I busted my elbow in an BJJ match and i busted my wrist on some dudes head at aparty who was talking shit so i cant realy do heavy weights for a while so im doing strictly bodyweight right now.
danny81 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,282	http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/on...preciated.html Aiyyo it's off with his head/Cock the lead redecorate the crib burgandy red

05-03-2008, 02:09 PM	#18
CORUM Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: California Posts: 204	you sound injury prone, you may want to find another profetion!!

05-03-2008, 03:43 PM	#20
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,137	I wouldn't be focusing on trying to hit 1RM's or anything like that, since it is the opposite of the goal of boxing. But, training the lower extremity is very important.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

05-03-2008, 04:08 PM	#21
CORUM Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: California Posts: 204	In all honestly you can argue this all day and still not have an answer. generally you would be using or working your legs every day in MMA. some will say add to it and some would say what's the point because they are being worked everyday. sprints, shooting, throwing, lifting, and the list goes on, plus the sprints and other running exercises. You do some variety of that EVERYDAY, do you really think you need to add to that? Plus I stated before on this MMA training subject the bulkier you get, the easier you will tire out. Also you will move slower!!! No need to really add weights unless your trying to move up in weight, but then your going to meet up with guys about 20 pounds heavier than you who come down to that weight. I would seriously leave legs to a bodyweight workout. Or if you add weight I would do just the bar, and lung around then immediatly into some squats things like that. Squat jumps work WONDERS!!!!

05-03-2008, 05:43 PM	#23
CORUM Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: California Posts: 204	It happens!!! I've broke my hand five different times fighting, if you getting upset about that you need to work on thickening that skin before you go and try and be a fighter!!! They will say much worse!!

05-03-2008, 07:03 PM	#25
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 7,119 Photos: 3	Id never really take the advice of Ken Shamrock. The only thing I can think of that would make his statement logical is to avoid injury.
	6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 360 (11/29) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal

05-03-2008, 07:07 PM	#26
CORUM Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: California Posts: 204	Oh plus about Ken Shamrock, did you see the size of his legs when he fought kimo? They didn't get that way with out lifting I's sure he did serious squats, but I always feel his cardio is lacking, he big ass hell but look at him after one round! it was better when he was younger. EARLY UFC days, but he wasn't near as big then. Bottom line what works for one person wont work for another, try it out and see how you feel. Go to a small show and try to get on the card and see how you do. You have to test yourself!! and see how the squats and deadlifts work for you. If it makes you too bulky and slows you down and you get tired quicker try something different. Good Luck!!!