Thread: Shoulders and Upper Back needs work

Originally Posted by MCPaulyB

I'm looking to develop my shouders and upper back more. I want more rounded shoulders.

Here's my routine:

M-abs, chest, shrugs
T-legs
W-abs, shoulders
Th-abs, arms
F or S or Sun-back

What shall I do?

Thanks!

can't give you any help if you don't specifically name the exercises you perform on each day.[cough cough]

What shall you do? How about getting a well designed, well balanced routine? A complete day for arms?

There are numerous pre-packed routines located in the stickies at the top of this forum, on other websites, and in books. Pick one.

I've got to ask, what are the details of that workout? What exercises? How many sets and reps?

Designing a Split Routine

• • Don't train more than 2 consecutive days without taking a day off.

  • Try to keep the lifting portion of your workout to an hour or less.

  • Take a week off every 3 months or so, or implement planned deloading phases.

  • A general rule of thumb is to perform 2-4 sets of each exercise, although I suggest consulting my guide to designing routines (Guide To Designing A Routine) for more information on this topic.

  • Do at least one freeweight movement for push movements, pull movements, and leg exercises. Do more if at all possible.

  • In general, you should workout larger muscles first. As well, perform heavier compound movements first.

  • Rep range should primarily hang in the 6-12 range. However, going higher or lower on occasion is certainly a good idea. If you also value strength, then journey into the 3-6 range more frequently. Conversely, if you also value endurance, then go in the 15+ range more frequently.

  • Try to balance your pressing and pulling movements. Also, try to balance your quad-dominant and hamstring-dominant lower body exercises.

  2 day split examples:
  Upper - Lower
  
  (Full Body Push - Pull) Quads, Chest, Anterior & Lateral Delts, Triceps, Abs - Hamstrings, Back, Posterior Delts, Biceps, Abs
  
  3 day split examples:
  Week A: Upper - Lower - Upper / Week B: Lower - Upper - Lower
  
  (Push - Pull - Legs) Chest, Anterior & Lateral Delts, Triceps - Back, Posterior Delts, Biceps - Legs, Calves, Abs
  
  (Upper Horizontal - Upper Vertical - Legs) Chest, Back Thickness, Biceps - Back Width, Anterior & Lateral Delts, Triceps - Legs, Calves, Abs
  
  4 day split examples:
  Lower - Upper - Lower - Upper
  
  Chest - Back - Legs - Delts, Arms, Abs
  
  Week A: Push - Pull - Legs - Push / Week B: Pull - Legs - Push - Pull / Week C: Legs - Push - Pull - Legs
  
  As you can see, there is a wide variety of viable splits, and it should be no problem to find one that fits your schedule. As long as you follow the general guidelines I laid out, or something close to them that affords you full recovery, then you can cram muscle groups together virtually however you please. The split doesn't even have to be based around a calendar week if you don't want to do it that way.

Just an example, take it from there and then we can guide you.

I dont want to hijack this thread but I just saw the part about not working out more than 2 days in a row without taking a day off. Ive been using a 4 day a week routine basicly since high school and def understand that, but I am considering changing my routine for an upcoming cycle. I was wondering if I could go

day 1: chest, triceps, shoulders

day 2: back, biceps, abs

day 3: legs

day 4: off

than start over again and throw in a few times where I take two days off in between. Any input since my recovery time should be better?

Read the stickies.

Both of you.

And pay attention, this is important: A list of body parts and days is not a program. That is a miniscule portion of how to design an exercise regime. Like has been said above - Exercises, Sets, Reps, Rest Intervals, Intensities, Rep Tempos, Periodization over the length of the program or even the next few programs, what your goals are for the program or your next year of training.

We don't know you. We dont know what you want, what you're doing, or what is best for you unless you tell us whats going on.

Start a journal and if your nice people will help you.

Im not asking for help with my routines, Ive been lifting for over 6 years. Instead of listing every single lift, how many reps, etc, I summarized with body part to emphasize I would not be hitting the same part two days in a row. My question really doesnt have much to do with what lifts Im actually doing, but more with frequency of lifting while on cycle. So yes, I know how to lift but am new to anabolics. And what stickie would you refer me to that answers this directly?

Originally Posted by snoops

Im not asking for help with my routines, Ive been lifting for over 6 years. Instead of listing every single lift, how many reps, etc, I summarized with body part to emphasize I would not be hitting the same part two days in a row. My question really doesnt have much to do with what lifts Im actually doing, but more with frequency of lifting while on cycle. So yes, I know how to lift but am new to anabolics. And what stickie would you refer me to that answers this directly?

Its that information that determines whether the program is good or bad, its not just about not hitting the same bodyparts two days in a row. From that split you could be doing one set per exercise or ten sets per exercise - each case giving a VERY different result, i think you'd agree.

The truth of the matter is that the split has very little impact in the overall effect of the program. The other information in the program is far more important.

If you are looking for an exercise to targets those areas then try DB Overhead press

here are my favorite exercises for upper back, and shoulders. face pulls, upright rows, lat pulldowns to the front, and to the back. rear delt row, shrugs, shrug rolls, military press, bench press variations, side lateral raises. upright row to a roll. rear delt fly's. last but not least lat pull ups. those are a pain in the ass but will improve your back a great deal.

before some one calls me a moron that is not a workout. that is a list of exercises that are in my routines at diffrent times.

Originally Posted by snoops

I dont want to hijack this thread but I just saw the part about not working out more than 2 days in a row without taking a day off. Ive been using a 4 day a week routine basicly since high school and def understand that, but I am considering changing my routine for an upcoming cycle. I was wondering if I could go

day 1: chest, triceps, shoulders

day 2: back, biceps, abs

day 3: legs

day 4: off

than start over again and throw in a few times where I take two days off in between. Any input since my recovery time should be better?

Set you days to run like this:

On, on, off, on, off, on, on, off, on, off....

• face pulls, **good for rear delt and mid trap, posture
• upright rows, **avoid - there are far better movements that give much better shoulder development with less risk of rotator cuff damage
• lat pulldowns to the front, **good, even better one arm at a time
• and to the back. **avoid for the same reasons as upright rows
• rear delt row, **good for the same reasons as face pulls
• shrugs, **mostly overrated if you do heavy deads and cleans, but good
• shrug rolls, **avoid
• military press, **good, try to do 'em standing to involve more core and to avoid lower back strain
• bench press variations, **especially at an incline
• side lateral raises. **good for side delts at the end, but not much of a mass builder
• upright row to a roll. **avoid
• rear delt fly's. **good as a shoulder warmup/prehab/rehab
• last but not least lat pull ups. **overhand or underhand, chins are the bomb.

Comments: hang cleans, clean and press, olympic bar corner press (like a t-bar, but you face the corner and do a push press one arm at a time holding the end of the bar as a hand grip), jerks/push press, Arnold press and side laterals are all really great shoulder movements that will do nothing but condition and improve the your entire trap/shoulder area.

Oly bar corner presses:


From 7 Exercises From Thib's Toolbox

My favourite "shoulder" routines are, in no particular order, as follow:

5x5 hang cleans
3x8 Arnies ss with 3x8 side laterals

5x5 Oly bar corner presses
3x8 Arnies ss with 3x8 side laterals

If I've got extra piss and vinegar that day...
5x5 hang cleans
3x5 split jerks or push presses
3x8 Oly bar corner presses
3x6-8 Arnies ss with 3x8 side laterals

Originally Posted by Built

• face pulls, **good for rear delt and mid trap, posture
• upright rows, **avoid - there are far better movements that give much better shoulder development with less risk of rotator cuff damage
• lat pulldowns to the front, **good, even better one arm at a time
• and to the back. **avoid for the same reasons as upright rows
• rear delt row, **good for the same reasons as face pulls
• shrugs, **mostly overrated if you do heavy deads and cleans, but good
• shrug rolls, **avoid
• military press, **good, try to do 'em standing to involve more core and to avoid lower back strain
• bench press variations, **especially at an incline
• side lateral raises. **good for side delts at the end, but not much of a mass builder
• upright row to a roll. **avoid
• rear delt fly's. **good as a shoulder warmup/prehab/rehab
• last but not least lat pull ups. **overhand or underhand, chins are the bomb.

Comments: hang cleans, clean and press, olympic bar corner press (like a t-bar, but you face the corner and do a push press one arm at a time holding the end of the bar as a hand grip), jerks/push press, Arnold press and side laterals are all really great shoulder movements that will do nothing but condition and improve the your entire trap/shoulder area.

Oly bar corner presses:


From 7 Exercises From Thib's Toolbox

My favourite "shoulder" routines are, in no particular order, as follow:

5x5 hang cleans
3x8 Arnies ss with 3x8 side laterals

5x5 Oly bar corner presses
3x8 Arnies ss with 3x8 side laterals

If I've got extra piss and vinegar that day...
5x5 hang cleans
3x5 split jerks or push presses
3x8 Oly bar corner presses
3x6-8 Arnies ss with 3x8 side laterals

i dare not argue with you at all built. i like the exercises i listed and as long as perfect form is maintained i have neve had a problem with them. although if you do have a better exercise for building mass in the medial delt i would love to know. mine just will not grow. they are shaping but not getting bigger.

I had the same problem. NOTHING hit my side delts.

In addition to sufficient pulling/rowing movements to draw the shoulders back, try the "piss and vinegar" combination I posted.

Now, the nice thing about Arnies is that in addition to being a really nice conditioning movement for the rotator cuff, they're actually a hybrid between a milli and a side lateral. Doing the superset with those followed by side laterals REALLY hit your medials.

And NOTHING woke my delts up like power cleans. My strong feeling is that the fast negatives - both at the beginning of the movement when you're "flinging" the weight up, and the catch at the bottom - tugging on the insertions of the delts create a LOT of microtrauma. My shoulders literally exploded (in their little, girly way) when I started doing the combinations of movements I've listed.

well then i will have to re-evaluate my workout and give it a shot. my rear delts grow as well as front but medial wont do it. i get striations but no real size increase.

one last thing thank you built for the tip.

Hey Built,
What do you think of Snatches instead of cleans for the shoulders? I tend to prefer those as I think my form is a bit better and find it more difficult to execute with crappy form.

My training partner prefers snatches. They're both good.

Follow them with split jerks or push presses, then as above.

just make sure that you have someone teach you proper technique for these lifts.

also, the explosiveness should be coming from the hips during the double knee bend portion of the lift. You are shrugging to pull yourself UNDER the bar, not pull the bar up to you (ie, pulling with your arms).

Originally Posted by Built

My training partner prefers snatches. They're both good.

Follow them with split jerks or push presses, then as above.

Ya me too!!! OOPs, wrong forum!!!

Originally Posted by Built

My training partner prefers snatches. They're both good.

Follow them with split jerks or push presses, then as above.

Originally Posted by biggfly

Ya me too!!! OOPs, wrong forum!!!

I love men.

<giggles>

Originally Posted by Built

I love men.

<giggles>

I don't!!! But I think I established that in my last post!!