front squats????

rahaas · 07-02-2008, 07:29 PM

Getting back to the original topic:
Lately I've been using the smith machine for front and roman squats. I hate the machine for back squats but have found I can get greater ROM really streching out the quads with no stress on my joints.
I usually do these after back squats and before leg extensions or leg presses.

Metallibanger · 07-02-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livinlarge

i have not used a belt i dead lift over 800lb and never hurt my back

800 lb

Witchblade · 07-03-2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Have I had this wrong? I had been under the impression that the proper use of a belt is for max-effort lifting, where you stiffen your core by pushing your abs out on the belt. I didn't think you were supposed to wear it all the time to protect your back. I would have thought that by using a belt for all squats and deads, you'll just end up with a weaker back and core.

No?

A belt compresses your stomach contents resulting in increased intra-abdominal pressure. This stabilizes the spinal column so the erector spinae and abdominals have to do less work and there is less spinal compression. A belt also traps your torso in an upright position, which is proper form for deadlifts and squats. You don't really have to push your abdominals into the belt, but you can. You could also tighten the belt more or use a technique called 'bracing'. You can leave the belt on for several repetitions, but if you are constantly pushing your belly into it, you will have trouble breathing. I prefer bracing.

A belt is basically a substitute for a core that can't do the job on its own or for situations when you can't afford the risk (powerlifting). A belt also increases blood pressure significantly.

In short, you were right. Don't listen to the argumentless opinions of metallibanger and the like.

**Built** · 07-03-2008, 10:28 AM

Thanks Witchblade. I'm pretty careful with my back - I've had problems with it my whole life and I've done much to strengthen my core: unbelted squats, deads, rows... also heavy weighted ab work a few times a week - and of course the usual add-ons that hit core: chins, sprints, accessory work performed standing instead of sitting wherever possible, that sort of thing. I'm interested to see how I fare with a belt for some very heavy ME stuff this fall, but that's all I'll use it for. Besides, from what I understand, a properly-adjusted belt doesn't exactly feel very good - not something you'd want to leave on!

Metallibanger · 07-03-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchblade

Don't listen to the argumentless opinions of metallibanger and the like.

You will go far little boy

danzik17 · 07-03-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

not something you'd want to leave on!

I actually had to stop mid-set the other day because I started laughing at a guy doing curls with horrible form while wearing a belt. Good thing I saw it in the mirror so I wasn't facing him though

Made me think of that "Don't be that guy" video posted somewhere on here.

Metallibanger · 07-03-2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

I actually had to stop mid-set the other day because I started laughing at a guy doing curls with horrible form while wearing a belt. Good thing I saw it in the mirror so I wasn't facing him though

Made me think of that "Don't be that guy" video posted somewhere on here.

I'm sure Arnold didn't have any idea what he was doing

AKIRA · 07-03-2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metallibanger

I'm sure Arnold didn't have any idea what he was doing

Good pic of a back flip. Or wait....

Comparing Arnold to the average gym rat is blasphemy.

Face it. Belts are (for the most part) for pussies.

**Built** · 07-03-2008, 02:32 PM

That's right - Arnold's training techniques to this day continue to represent the state of the art of strength and conditioning.

Enjoy "arm day" everybody...

Metallibanger · 07-03-2008, 04:17 PM

Arnold's biceps are still unmatched to this day but of course he didn't know what he was doing, imagine what he could have done with the advanced advice of IM experts!

RasPlasch · 07-03-2008, 04:20 PM

I am going to have to look at these belts. Does anyone know a type of store that would have some to try on? Do you think sports stores would have them?

Metallibanger · 07-03-2008, 04:22 PM

The pink one?

livinlarge · 07-03-2008, 04:26 PM

that right metallibanger i have a 850lb deadlift from the floor i am i weight around 320lb i have a 540 bench raw and 1000lb squat parrel i am a pro strongman been training for about 15 years so i don't like to brag because it brings bad carma but you act like you never heard of that but i really can do so i have been compeating for about 3 years now so that is what i do for a living and love every min of it so lift hard and lift big

AKIRA · 07-03-2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metallibanger

Arnold's biceps are still unmatched to this day but of course he didn't know what he was doing, imagine what he could have done with the advanced advice of IM experts!

We didnt say he didnt know what he was doing. We knows what HE had to do for how HE wanted to look. However, if he had the knowledge that we have now then...then yeah, hed be bigger.

Dont forget, in those days, there were hardly any muscular guys at all. Now, we are still a rare breed, but we arent as scarce.

But...heh, putting up a pic of Arnold or ANYONE doing a barbel curl with a belt isnt going to help your point at all.

**Built** · 07-03-2008, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metallibanger

Arnold's biceps are still unmatched to this day but of course he didn't know what he was doing, imagine what he could have done with the advanced advice of IM experts!

He looked great, don't get me wrong - his upper body and tiny waist were, in a word, breathtaking. But his legs were small and he knew it - they were his worst part. In peak condition, in a modern-day competition, he'd be hard-pressed to make top 5 because of this.

Metallibanger · 07-03-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livinlarge

that right metallibanger

My bad

Quote:

Originally Posted by livinlarge

you act like you never heard of that

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

putting up a pic of Arnold or ANYONE doing a barbel curl with a belt isnt going to help your point at all.

If that's what you think

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

his upper body and tiny waist were, in a word, breathtaking. But his legs were small and he knew it

Well, he isn't exactly known for having a tiny waist, and we're not talking about his legs

Metallibanger · 07-03-2008, 06:57 PM

I'm having fun with you guys

**Built** · 07-03-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metallibanger

Well, he isn't exactly known for having a tiny waist...

He isn't?

In his prime, Arnold's chest was 57" and his waist was 34". That's quite the size differential!

livinlarge · 07-03-2008, 07:22 PM

not trying to be an ass metallbanger so that is cool alot of people don't beleave me when i tell them people stop and watch me do it because it is just amazing or something i leg press around 1800lb and everone in gym watches that that is just amazing but prettey cool to have people just in amzament

min0 lee · 07-03-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metallibanger

Well, he isn't exactly known for having a tiny waist, and we're not talking about his legs

No way.

Metallibanger · 07-03-2008, 07:38 PM

I'm listening to ZZ Top right now... wow they're the shit!, have you guys heard them?

Metallibanger · 07-03-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

No way.

Haven't you noticed that he always twisted his waist when posing?

**Built** · 07-03-2008, 07:40 PM

That's Zed Zed Top

- The Canadian.

min0 lee · 07-03-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metallibanger

Haven't you noticed that he always twisted his waist when posing?

You can twist yours twice over and I bet you can't get it that small.

Metallibanger · 07-03-2008, 07:44 PM

Can you make a bearded ZZ Top smiley min0

min0 lee · 07-03-2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metallibanger

Can you make a bearded ZZ Top smiley min0

It may take me a bit, I've taken a break from the chopz for a while.

Yanick · 07-04-2008, 06:54 PM

Such a stupid argument. Arnold did curls with a belt so its good. Ad hominems are logical fallacies there big guy. Arnold trained in the 60's and 70's, they didn't know shit back then. 1970 was when they first figured out that women orgasm from clitoral stimulation and not vaginal penetration (1970: Information and Much More from Answers.com). If you think that our knowledge of nature hasn't increased exponentially in the past 40 years then you have bigger problems than doing curls in the squat rack with a loose weight belt on.

And although there is no way to prove this, but give anyone the same circumstances that Arnold had (his genetics, training, eating and tanning all day, the same amount of juice etc) except give him a modern day coach who has extensive knowledge of sports physiology, like a P-funk for training and a Mudge for juicing for example, and Arnold will be a twig compared to the absolute monster that will arise out of our hypothetical subject.

07-04-2008, 06:54 PM	#57
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	Such a stupid argument. Arnold did curls with a belt so its good. Ad hominems are logical fallacies there big guy. Arnold trained in the 60's and 70's, they didn't know shit back then. 1970 was when they first figured out that women orgasm from clitoral stimulation and not vaginal penetration (1970: Information and Much More from Answers.com). If you think that our knowledge of nature hasn't increased exponentially in the past 40 years then you have bigger problems than doing curls in the squat rack with a loose weight belt on. And although there is no way to prove this, but give anyone the same circumstances that Arnold had (his genetics, training, eating and tanning all day, the same amount of juice etc) except give him a modern day coach who has extensive knowledge of sports physiology, like a P-funk for training and a Mudge for juicing for example, and Arnold will be a twig compared to the absolute monster that will arise out of our hypothetical subject.
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	"...we have to remember that training is a complicated dance of stimuli and response. Our goal is to understand how to manipulate the stimuli in order to evoke the responses we desire." -Nathan J. Polenchek

07-02-2008, 07:29 PM	#31
rahaas Member Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 272	Getting back to the original topic: Lately I've been using the smith machine for front and roman squats. I hate the machine for back squats but have found I can get greater ROM really streching out the quads with no stress on my joints. I usually do these after back squats and before leg extensions or leg presses.

07-03-2008, 10:28 AM	#34
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 2,513	Thanks Witchblade. I'm pretty careful with my back - I've had problems with it my whole life and I've done much to strengthen my core: unbelted squats, deads, rows... also heavy weighted ab work a few times a week - and of course the usual add-ons that hit core: chins, sprints, accessory work performed standing instead of sitting wherever possible, that sort of thing. I'm interested to see how I fare with a belt for some very heavy ME stuff this fall, but that's all I'll use it for. Besides, from what I understand, a properly-adjusted belt doesn't exactly feel very good - not something you'd want to leave on!

07-03-2008, 02:32 PM	#39
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 2,513	That's right - Arnold's training techniques to this day continue to represent the state of the art of strength and conditioning. Enjoy "arm day" everybody...

07-03-2008, 04:17 PM	#40
Metallibanger Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: - Posts: 287 Photos: 13	Arnold's biceps are still unmatched to this day but of course he didn't know what he was doing, imagine what he could have done with the advanced advice of IM experts!

07-03-2008, 04:20 PM	#41
RasPlasch Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 477 Photos: 1	I am going to have to look at these belts. Does anyone know a type of store that would have some to try on? Do you think sports stores would have them?

07-03-2008, 04:22 PM	#42
Metallibanger Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: - Posts: 287 Photos: 13	The pink one?

07-03-2008, 04:26 PM	#43
livinlarge Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: virgina USA Posts: 23	that right metallibanger i have a 850lb deadlift from the floor i am i weight around 320lb i have a 540 bench raw and 1000lb squat parrel i am a pro strongman been training for about 15 years so i don't like to brag because it brings bad carma but you act like you never heard of that but i really can do so i have been compeating for about 3 years now so that is what i do for a living and love every min of it so lift hard and lift big

07-03-2008, 06:57 PM	#47
Metallibanger Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: - Posts: 287 Photos: 13	I'm having fun with you guys

07-03-2008, 07:22 PM	#49
livinlarge Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: virgina USA Posts: 23	not trying to be an ass metallbanger so that is cool alot of people don't beleave me when i tell them people stop and watch me do it because it is just amazing or something i leg press around 1800lb and everone in gym watches that that is just amazing but prettey cool to have people just in amzament

07-03-2008, 07:38 PM	#51
Metallibanger Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: - Posts: 287 Photos: 13	I'm listening to ZZ Top right now... wow they're the shit!, have you guys heard them?

07-03-2008, 07:40 PM	#53
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 2,513	That's Zed Zed Top - The Canadian.

07-03-2008, 07:44 PM	#55
Metallibanger Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: - Posts: 287 Photos: 13	Can you make a bearded ZZ Top smiley min0