Physique with no cardo

jhawkin1 · 09-21-2008, 05:47 PM

I used to be in great shape because I had done a lot of cardio, along with lifting weights and having a clean diet. I have not done cardio for the last two months, and I can tell I am way out of shape, but have a better physique with no pudge on the bottom of my stomach. I feel that when I do cardio, I either retain too much water weight which causes it, or it's a matter of a lack of loss of body fat because my body recognizes that I am trying to lose it so I end up holding onto more than I want to.

I want to get back into shape, but at the same time want to keep my physique or improve it. At this point, I do not believe I am in good enough shape to do HIIT running. Any other suggestions/when is a good time to do cardio or should I even do it at all?

go4kj · 09-21-2008, 06:26 PM

Why not try Hills cardio. It is less intense than HIIT, but along the same lines. I was doing it before I started bulking. Believe me, it kicks butt. For details check out Built's page or do a search on this forum. I actually posted a thread on that topic in this section. Once you feel more comfortable you can try HIIT. I hate running, so HIIT is not an option for me.

Is your diet clean? Are you planning to bulk, cut or just maintain?

Also are you carb cycling? I'm sure you are, but just wanted to make sure...

As always, you are consuming adequate amount of fat?

Everybody is going to ask for your diet details- Total calories and Macros& your training schedule. So go ahead and post that info, so that the experienced guys and gals can give you valuable pointers.

Hope this helps in getting you started...

jhawkin1 · 09-21-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go4kj

Why not try Hills cardio. It is less intense than HIIT, but along the same lines. I was doing it before I started bulking. Believe me, it kicks butt. For details check out Built's page or do a search on this forum. I actually posted a thread on that topic in this section. Once you feel more comfortable you can try HIIT. I hate running, so HIIT is not an option for me.

Is your diet clean? Are you planning to bulk, cut or just maintain?

Also are you carb cycling? I'm sure you are, but just wanted to make sure...

As always, you are consuming adequate amount of fat?

Everybody is going to ask for your diet details- Total calories and Macros& your training schedule. So go ahead and post that info, so that the experienced guys and gals can give you valuable pointers.

Hope this helps in getting you started...

Thank you for asking me about my diet! I have been on this website for quite some time, but in the last month or so I've been so busy with my teaching job that I have had no time to make any posts!

I make sure fat is one of the most important parts of my diet- mainly almonds and nuts are key in that area. My protein is probably the highest in consumption which is almost 200g per day (I currently weigh about 155 pounds).

For the last 3 years my goal was to get down to a body fat around 6-8%, so I have been restricting my calories and cleaning my diet for at least 2 years now. I think I am ready for a bulk, so I can put on some more muscle so that when I get back to cutting on January 1st, I will have more than enough muscle to help with the cutting process.

Built has been great on here, and I did follow her cutting plan which has a great split for weights training and also a great philosophy about starving away body fat and not trying to burn it off through exercise. I, like her, do not cut very well when I try to do too much cardio. Cardio has not helped my physique, but now I am at the point that if I tried to sprint down a field I would be completely out of breath! I need to find a happy medium with staying in shape through small amounts of cardio, but keeping my physique or even improving it at the same time.

Any suggestions on if I should start bulking again? Is it healthy to just cut all the time, then maintain? Should the cycle be bulk, cut repeat?

go4kj · 09-23-2008, 08:55 PM

The ideal way to do it in my opinion would be to bulk up during the winter, Cut in spring and then try to maintain or slow bulk(I don't even know if that is a valid term) during other times. Let's see how that plan unfolds for me. 6% BF is pretty extreme. I would be mighty pleased with 8% BF.

If you are not an a bulk, I would recommend Hills cardio training. It works good for stubborn fat. Start slow, like once a week on one of your off days from weight training and then build it up from there.

Very few(actually none) guys or gals I know maintain all the time. Could it work, yeah sure, if you are at your "dream physique". Everybody is striving to work on deficient areas and fine tune this and that.

Hope that helped. Good luck in your goals and if you ever get to that dream 6% BF goal without losing too much muscle in the bargain, post some pics to keep us motivated.....

**Built** · 09-24-2008, 12:52 AM

Interesting that you found Hill Repeats helpful for stubborn fat. I use them to bring up work capacity - they're basically resistance-training for your heart. They do burn off a few calories - I do 'em at most once a week.

My cardio article has a sample month of cardio training integrated into the four day split and diet protocols on my blog. Check it out for ideas.

go4kj · 09-24-2008, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Interesting that you found Hill Repeats helpful for stubborn fat. I use them to bring up work capacity - they're basically resistance-training for your heart. They do burn off a few calories - I do 'em at most once a week.

I actually found it very useful for stubborn fat around my belly. It was mainly the dieting that did it, but once I started doing the Hills cardio, that area showed really great results. I was also consuming too little calories and doing the hills regimen like 2-3 times a week. It did make my Abs more prominent, especially the love handles . That was when I lost a lot of muscle and looked really skinny. Never want to go for that look again

. Also I was doing a more intense version where after warmup I started at 6% grade and was going all the way upto 13% grade at times.

Once I start cutting, I'll probably start doing it again 1-2 times a week. Hopefully, it will help me get to my goal of chisseled abs then.

**Built** · 09-24-2008, 11:13 AM

I'd urge you to do them only once a week, and use a tighter diet and perhaps some HIIT to accomplish your goal. Hills are very taxing - you'll burn a ton of calories, but we're starting to learn that burning off fat isn't as effective as starving it off. Training it off simply burns too much muscle along the way.

If you diet properly and lift heavy, you risk manage muscle in a caloric deficit. Cardio can be part of that deficit, but look to your diet for the majority of it.

My .02

go4kj · 09-24-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

I'd urge you to do them only once a week, and use a tighter diet and perhaps some HIIT to accomplish your goal. Hills are very taxing - you'll burn a ton of calories, but we're starting to learn that burning off fat isn't as effective as starving it off. Training it off simply burns too much muscle along the way.

If you diet properly and lift heavy, you risk manage muscle in a caloric deficit. Cardio can be part of that deficit, but look to your diet for the majority of it.

My .02

Agree with it 100%. I didn't want him or her to make the same mistake I made. I overdid it & lost muscle. This time around when I do cut, hopefully I will do it right & retain as much muscle as I can.

jhawkin1 · 09-24-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go4kj

Agree with it 100%. I didn't want him or her to make the same mistake I made. I overdid it & lost muscle. This time around when I do cut, hopefully I will do it right & retain as much muscle as I can.

I usually do overdue it when it comes to exercising. I will bulk till January 1st, then go on to cutting. I am going to stick with lifting for now and eating a few more carbs and upping calories. Little cardio at the most. None for the most part though. Thanks both of you for the great tips! Built, I know I can def. count on you for cutting...starving the fat with a great training split (and of course, a very clean diet!) is the way to go!

**Built** · 09-24-2008, 08:37 PM

Enjoy your bulk. Don't enjoy it too much though

danzik17 · 09-24-2008, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

I'd urge you to do them only once a week, and use a tighter diet and perhaps some HIIT to accomplish your goal. Hills are very taxing - you'll burn a ton of calories, but we're starting to learn that burning off fat isn't as effective as starving it off. Training it off simply burns too much muscle along the way.

If you diet properly and lift heavy, you risk manage muscle in a caloric deficit. Cardio can be part of that deficit, but look to your diet for the majority of it.

My .02

Wait what?

I know that it is far easier to create a deficit via diet as compared to cardio which is why there is so much focus on that, but I have always believed that it was superior to actually burn the calories as compared to dieting them. It was just too inefficient to make it effective.

**Built** · 09-24-2008, 10:00 PM

Lyle McDonald - the undisputed king of recomposition - would beg to differ.

From The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Lyle

...<snip> Under most dieting conditions, unless a tremendous amount or a very high intensity of exercise can be done such that a very large amount of additional calories are burned, exercise simply fails to have much of an impact.

That is, unless you’re capable of literally hours per day of exercise, sufficient to burn a ton of calories, the calorie burn from exercise will generally be quite small compared to the deficit created by food restriction. To burn 500-1000 calories per day with low intensity exercise would require hours of activity, to reduce food intake by that much may be much easier...<snip>

danzik17 · 09-24-2008, 10:06 PM

Right but that agrees precisely with what I posted. It is far more efficient to create the deficit via dieting, but it is actually superior to burn the calories via exercise. It's just not possible to create a large enough deficit with exercise alone unless you're an athlete by profession.

The thinking behind it at least for me is that not only do you get the nutritional benefits of the additional food, but you get benefits from the exercise being performed whether it's cardio or weight lifting.

**Built** · 09-24-2008, 10:11 PM

Except it doesn't pan out in the research.

I'll try to dig up the reference, but it has been demonstrated that fat loss is greater and muscle-retention is enhanced when the deficit comes from diet rather than from exercise.

DaMayor · 09-25-2008, 12:43 PM

This doesn't hit the nail directly on the head...but it helps.

Originally Posted by Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook, Pg. 36

"Related to this, I've often seen what seems to be a thermodynamic impossibility, thecombination of extremely large caloric deficits with an extremely large amount of activity(or a very high intensity of activity) often slows down or even stops fat loss completely.Yes, I know, it seems impossible but I've seen it happen enough times (including in myself) to know it happens. Basically, if you want to create an extremely large caloric deficit through food restriction,you absolutely must not do too much activity (folks who have followed the diet in this (37) book have found this out the hard way, by ignoring my recommendations below and doing too much activity, they slowed their fat and weight loss). If you want to do a lot of activity, you cannot cut calories too severely. Again, I know this doesn't make much sense and I'm still trying to pin down the mechanisms of why this happens. But the simple fact is that it does and if you want to avoid problems, you must follow the recommendations I'm going to give below in terms of how much exercise you can or should do."

I recently read/received comments concerning this from Mr. McD..but I can't find them right now.

09-21-2008, 05:47 PM	#1
jhawkin1 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 496	Physique with no cardo I used to be in great shape because I had done a lot of cardio, along with lifting weights and having a clean diet. I have not done cardio for the last two months, and I can tell I am way out of shape, but have a better physique with no pudge on the bottom of my stomach. I feel that when I do cardio, I either retain too much water weight which causes it, or it's a matter of a lack of loss of body fat because my body recognizes that I am trying to lose it so I end up holding onto more than I want to. I want to get back into shape, but at the same time want to keep my physique or improve it. At this point, I do not believe I am in good enough shape to do HIIT running. Any other suggestions/when is a good time to do cardio or should I even do it at all? Goal: 8% Body Fat, maintain majority of muscle mass New Years Resolution: Build up my lower body

09-24-2008, 12:52 AM	#5
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,121	Interesting that you found Hill Repeats helpful for stubborn fat. I use them to bring up work capacity - they're basically resistance-training for your heart. They do burn off a few calories - I do 'em at most once a week. My cardio article has a sample month of cardio training integrated into the four day split and diet protocols on my blog. Check it out for ideas. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-24-2008, 11:13 AM	#7
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,121	I'd urge you to do them only once a week, and use a tighter diet and perhaps some HIIT to accomplish your goal. Hills are very taxing - you'll burn a ton of calories, but we're starting to learn that burning off fat isn't as effective as starving it off. Training it off simply burns too much muscle along the way. If you diet properly and lift heavy, you risk manage muscle in a caloric deficit. Cardio can be part of that deficit, but look to your diet for the majority of it. My .02 Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-24-2008, 08:37 PM	#10
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,121	Enjoy your bulk. Don't enjoy it too much though Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-24-2008, 10:06 PM	#13
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 3,075	Right but that agrees precisely with what I posted. It is far more efficient to create the deficit via dieting, but it is actually superior to burn the calories via exercise. It's just not possible to create a large enough deficit with exercise alone unless you're an athlete by profession. The thinking behind it at least for me is that not only do you get the nutritional benefits of the additional food, but you get benefits from the exercise being performed whether it's cardio or weight lifting. Ron Paul 2012 Journal: danzik17's Log - 4-6 Week Strength/Bulk Journal: Sub 10% by April <old>

09-21-2008, 06:26 PM	#2
go4kj Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: West virginia, USA Posts: 106	Why not try Hills cardio. It is less intense than HIIT, but along the same lines. I was doing it before I started bulking. Believe me, it kicks butt. For details check out Built's page or do a search on this forum. I actually posted a thread on that topic in this section. Once you feel more comfortable you can try HIIT. I hate running, so HIIT is not an option for me. Is your diet clean? Are you planning to bulk, cut or just maintain? Also are you carb cycling? I'm sure you are, but just wanted to make sure... As always, you are consuming adequate amount of fat? Everybody is going to ask for your diet details- Total calories and Macros& your training schedule. So go ahead and post that info, so that the experienced guys and gals can give you valuable pointers. Hope this helps in getting you started...

09-23-2008, 08:55 PM	#4
go4kj Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: West virginia, USA Posts: 106	The ideal way to do it in my opinion would be to bulk up during the winter, Cut in spring and then try to maintain or slow bulk(I don't even know if that is a valid term) during other times. Let's see how that plan unfolds for me. 6% BF is pretty extreme. I would be mighty pleased with 8% BF. If you are not an a bulk, I would recommend Hills cardio training. It works good for stubborn fat. Start slow, like once a week on one of your off days from weight training and then build it up from there. Very few(actually none) guys or gals I know maintain all the time. Could it work, yeah sure, if you are at your "dream physique". Everybody is striving to work on deficient areas and fine tune this and that. Hope that helped. Good luck in your goals and if you ever get to that dream 6% BF goal without losing too much muscle in the bargain, post some pics to keep us motivated.....

09-24-2008, 10:11 PM	#14
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,121	Except it doesn't pan out in the research. I'll try to dig up the reference, but it has been demonstrated that fat loss is greater and muscle-retention is enhanced when the deficit comes from diet rather than from exercise. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-25-2008, 12:43 PM	#15
DaMayor On a Perpetual Bulk Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Posts: 6,145	This doesn't hit the nail directly on the head...but it helps. Originally Posted by Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook, Pg. 36 "Related to this, I've often seen what seems to be a thermodynamic impossibility, thecombination of extremely large caloric deficits with an extremely large amount of activity(or a very high intensity of activity) often slows down or even stops fat loss completely.Yes, I know, it seems impossible but I've seen it happen enough times (including in myself) to know it happens. Basically, if you want to create an extremely large caloric deficit through food restriction,you absolutely must not do too much activity (folks who have followed the diet in this (37) book have found this out the hard way, by ignoring my recommendations below and doing too much activity, they slowed their fat and weight loss). If you want to do a lot of activity, you cannot cut calories too severely. Again, I know this doesn't make much sense and I'm still trying to pin down the mechanisms of why this happens. But the simple fact is that it does and if you want to avoid problems, you must follow the recommendations I'm going to give below in terms of how much exercise you can or should do." I recently read/received comments concerning this from Mr. McD..but I can't find them right now.

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