Bad form good?

Destram · 07-24-2002, 11:53 AM

Can bad form be a good thing? Like for instance, say you are doing standing barbell curls. If you bend your back a bit and up the weight you are lifting, wouldnt you then give your lower back a bit of a workout as well as your biceps? Couldn't you therefore get the same workout for your bi's and workout other groups at the same time by using bad form? Now i dont mean horrible form like swinging the weight up and using momentum and such, i just mean can different positions and stuff that would be considered "bad form" actually bring more muscle groups into the process of the lift and instead of having more of an isolated exercise, having a bigger compound movement?

TriZZle305 · 07-24-2002, 12:31 PM

IMO yes, as long as youre not doing what you said not to (swinging etc.) because it helps you work farther into failure

**dg806** · 07-24-2002, 12:51 PM

Any time you sacrifice weight for form that is not good! You take the concentration off the targeted muscle group and shift it somewhere else resulting in the muscle intended to get worked in the first place not getting trained correctly and thus not growing! Also, this is a good way to get injured. Don't believe me? Keep doing it long enough and see what I mean!

bludevil · 07-24-2002, 01:05 PM

I agree w/ dg806

TriZZle305 · 07-24-2002, 01:07 PM

not even to get in a last rep...? if i can find it someone said for a last rep just for failure it wont kill you but not to overdo it.. it might have been gopro or scotty -searching-

bludevil · 07-24-2002, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TriZZle305
not even to get in a last rep...? if i can find it someone said for a last rep just for failure it wont kill you but not to overdo it.. it might have been gopro or scotty -searching-

Yes to get that last rep for failure it might be beneficial, but Destram was talking about doing this for the entire set not for 1 last rep.

Destram · 07-24-2002, 01:32 PM

So even if you are still training the muscle, somehow having good form trains it "better"? That doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like you could reach failure faster with better form, but if you say bend your back just slightly while doing curls, thats still going to work your biceps just as hard if you go to failure, you will just also be working your lower back. And if you lean forward a bit maybe your abs. I can understand the concern for injury, but if you only change your form slightly and dont jerk/swing weight around, is there really that much more potential for injury? It seems like you are just using more muscles to stabalize/assist in the movement and therefore can use more weight and still hit the target muscle just as hard.

**dg806** · 07-24-2002, 01:55 PM

my sig used to read "It's not how much you lift, It's how you lift". I need to put that back up...
D, if you bend your back or whatever, your taking tension off the biceps weather you realize it or not! If your letting your back or legs do some work, your bicep is not being fully worked! One of the most important things to remember is, forget about how much weight you are lifting and concentrate on your form. You will see better growth over time! (I know that is hard to do!!!)

Destram · 07-24-2002, 02:55 PM

Yeah i know what you're saying, i usually use good form and im not concerned about how much weight i can lift because i lift at home anways. But wouldn't your biceps get the same workout if you did the same ammount of reps with a higher weight and just helped the biceps with your back/legs? I mean when your biceps fail they fail right?

Scotty the Body · 07-24-2002, 03:02 PM

If your gonna train bi's, then train bi's. If your gonna train back then train back, trying to both in the same exercise isn't going to get you anywhere.

Cheating should be left to the last rep or two and the focus should change to the negative portion of the movement.

TriZZle305 · 07-24-2002, 04:27 PM

o i didnt know he was talking about the whole set my bad

i always cheat the last one for bi's

Destram · 07-24-2002, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scotty the Body
If your gonna train bi's, then train bi's. If your gonna train back then train back, trying to both in the same exercise isn't going to get you anywhere.

Cheating should be left to the last rep or two and the focus should change to the negative portion of the movement.

Then why not train with all isolation exercises? And shouldn't you ALWAYS focus on the negative portion of the movement?

**Mudge** · 07-24-2002, 07:39 PM

Agree with Scotty. Dude, you will just hurt your back, and leaning back ends up negating a great deal of the curl effectiveness, I much prefer a helpfull forced-rep over leaning backwards which kills most of the rep effectiveness other than the negative.

Scotty the Body · 07-25-2002, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Destram

Then why not train with all isolation exercises? And shouldn't you ALWAYS focus on the negative portion of the movement?

There's nothing wrong with using "all Isolation exercises" but if you want your whole body to grow, you gotta do compound movments as well. And "no" using your back to help your bi's lift doesn't make that a compound movement.

Yes, you should always focus on the negative but for the last rep or two, the focus from the Positive and Negative portion can shift all to the Negative portion, cheating the weight up on the positive.

TriZZle305 · 07-25-2002, 11:44 AM

thats what i was gonna say... without a spotter how can you focus on the negative portion for the last few reps? answer.. use the back a little on positive portion so that you CAN focus on the negative portion

david · 07-25-2002, 12:43 PM

I tried to stay strict w/ everything so as I'm not cheating myself

TriZZle305 · 07-25-2002, 01:28 PM

your not really cheating yourself your helping yourself go further... what happens when you cant do it anymore strictly or you can only get it half way but you still have more negatives in ya?.. do you just quit and leave it alone or do you give yourself a boost on the postive so that you burn your arm a little more with negatives? i choose the latter but everyone does their own thang

**Mudge** · 07-25-2002, 01:47 PM

Also remember, while easy to think your done and its time for negatives, alot of the time you can pull 1 more rep out of yourself and then do your negative. I do cheat on my last 1 or 2 at times though for barbell curls, but with a spotter I prefer to have assistance instead.

07-24-2002, 11:53 AM	#1
Destram Cat Lover Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: .... Posts: 70	Bad form good? Can bad form be a good thing? Like for instance, say you are doing standing barbell curls. If you bend your back a bit and up the weight you are lifting, wouldnt you then give your lower back a bit of a workout as well as your biceps? Couldn't you therefore get the same workout for your bi's and workout other groups at the same time by using bad form? Now i dont mean horrible form like swinging the weight up and using momentum and such, i just mean can different positions and stuff that would be considered "bad form" actually bring more muscle groups into the process of the lift and instead of having more of an isolated exercise, having a bigger compound movement?

07-24-2002, 12:31 PM	#2
TriZZle305 Go Away Body Fat Elite Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 809 Photos: 8	IMO yes, as long as youre not doing what you said not to (swinging etc.) because it helps you work farther into failure
	My "Quest for Strength" Journal The Cheapest Supplement is knowledge! Improve BACK to improve BENCH

07-24-2002, 12:51 PM	#3
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,251	Any time you sacrifice weight for form that is not good! You take the concentration off the targeted muscle group and shift it somewhere else resulting in the muscle intended to get worked in the first place not getting trained correctly and thus not growing! Also, this is a good way to get injured. Don't believe me? Keep doing it long enough and see what I mean!
	www.sbmuscle.com

07-24-2002, 01:07 PM	#5
TriZZle305 Go Away Body Fat Elite Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 809 Photos: 8	not even to get in a last rep...? if i can find it someone said for a last rep just for failure it wont kill you but not to overdo it.. it might have been gopro or scotty -searching-
	My "Quest for Strength" Journal The Cheapest Supplement is knowledge! Improve BACK to improve BENCH

07-24-2002, 01:55 PM	#8
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,251	my sig used to read "It's not how much you lift, It's how you lift". I need to put that back up... D, if you bend your back or whatever, your taking tension off the biceps weather you realize it or not! If your letting your back or legs do some work, your bicep is not being fully worked! One of the most important things to remember is, forget about how much weight you are lifting and concentrate on your form. You will see better growth over time! (I know that is hard to do!!!)
	www.sbmuscle.com

07-24-2002, 01:05 PM	#4
bludevil To God be the Glory Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: WeightRoom Posts: 1,567 Photos: 25	I agree w/ dg806

07-24-2002, 01:32 PM	#7
Destram Cat Lover Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: .... Posts: 70	So even if you are still training the muscle, somehow having good form trains it "better"? That doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like you could reach failure faster with better form, but if you say bend your back just slightly while doing curls, thats still going to work your biceps just as hard if you go to failure, you will just also be working your lower back. And if you lean forward a bit maybe your abs. I can understand the concern for injury, but if you only change your form slightly and dont jerk/swing weight around, is there really that much more potential for injury? It seems like you are just using more muscles to stabalize/assist in the movement and therefore can use more weight and still hit the target muscle just as hard.

07-24-2002, 02:55 PM	#9
Destram Cat Lover Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: .... Posts: 70	Yeah i know what you're saying, i usually use good form and im not concerned about how much weight i can lift because i lift at home anways. But wouldn't your biceps get the same workout if you did the same ammount of reps with a higher weight and just helped the biceps with your back/legs? I mean when your biceps fail they fail right?

07-24-2002, 03:02 PM	#10
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	If your gonna train bi's, then train bi's. If your gonna train back then train back, trying to both in the same exercise isn't going to get you anywhere. Cheating should be left to the last rep or two and the focus should change to the negative portion of the movement.
	Cool

07-24-2002, 04:27 PM	#11
TriZZle305 Go Away Body Fat Elite Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 809 Photos: 8	o i didnt know he was talking about the whole set my bad i always cheat the last one for bi's
	My "Quest for Strength" Journal The Cheapest Supplement is knowledge! Improve BACK to improve BENCH

07-24-2002, 07:39 PM	#13
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,027 Photos: 1	Agree with Scotty. Dude, you will just hurt your back, and leaning back ends up negating a great deal of the curl effectiveness, I much prefer a helpfull forced-rep over leaning backwards which kills most of the rep effectiveness other than the negative.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

07-25-2002, 11:44 AM	#15
TriZZle305 Go Away Body Fat Elite Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 809 Photos: 8	thats what i was gonna say... without a spotter how can you focus on the negative portion for the last few reps? answer.. use the back a little on positive portion so that you CAN focus on the negative portion
	My "Quest for Strength" Journal The Cheapest Supplement is knowledge! Improve BACK to improve BENCH

07-25-2002, 12:43 PM	#16
david EAST COAST BRAT Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waterworld, FL Posts: 25,419 Photos: 2	I tried to stay strict w/ everything so as I'm not cheating myself

07-25-2002, 01:28 PM	#17
TriZZle305 Go Away Body Fat Elite Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 809 Photos: 8	your not really cheating yourself your helping yourself go further... what happens when you cant do it anymore strictly or you can only get it half way but you still have more negatives in ya?.. do you just quit and leave it alone or do you give yourself a boost on the postive so that you burn your arm a little more with negatives? i choose the latter but everyone does their own thang
	My "Quest for Strength" Journal The Cheapest Supplement is knowledge! Improve BACK to improve BENCH

07-25-2002, 01:47 PM	#18
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,027 Photos: 1	Also remember, while easy to think your done and its time for negatives, alot of the time you can pull 1 more rep out of yourself and then do your negative. I do cheat on my last 1 or 2 at times though for barbell curls, but with a spotter I prefer to have assistance instead.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

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