Majestyc

Is it possible to build muscle and lose fat at the same time?

For example, what would happen if I added 10-20 minutes of HIIT at the end of my workouts?

Built

1. Not to any appreciable extent, no. Not unless you're a novice overweight lifter, or on drugs. If you're a novice overweight lifer, you'll put on a small amount of muscle while dropping bodyfat, at first. But we're talking less than a pound of muscle a month for a few months. You'll notice it, but it won't make you jacked.
2. 20 minutes of true HIIT? You are a GOD. I can manage 6-8 minutes before I'm puking. Seriously, what most people think is HIIT is interval work, but not true HIIT. True HIIT is VERY intense, and if you can do more than 10 minutes of it, you're not pushing yourself hard enough. What will happen if you do it after lifting? This depends on your diet. On surplus calories, you'll burn a miniscule amount of calories and your hams might grow a bit. On a deficit, you'll add a miniscule amount to the deficit, and you'll mobilize FFAs that can get burned off if you follow it with steady state cardio for a bit.

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Majestyc

Thanks for the quick reply, Built.

I have taken bodybuilding very seriously for the past year. I went from 55kg to 70kg (my current weight) with minimal fat gain. Recently, I noticed that I'm starting to gain some fat on my stomach, and I'm getting a little worried. I'm wondering if it is possible to somehow get rid of that fat, and still continue to bulk?

Logman

I've been asking that same question and this is what I understand. If you keep to your calorie maintenance level over time you will gain a little muscle and lose a little (tiny bit) fat. On a calorie surplus you will gain alot more muscle and gain some fat too. On a calorie deficit diet you will lose alot of fat and a little muscle.

I'm exactly the same as you. Quite new to lifting, seeing some nice muscle gains but also abdominal fat. Even on a low deficit diet I didn't notice any loss of abdominal fat but other people noticed it in the face etc. Ab fat is always teh last to go.

So if you cut now you run the risk of losing a little of what you have gained. I have decided to bulk up a bit but still eat healthy. I'm aiming for a 5kg weight gain over the next few months and hope that most comes in muscle. And then I'll start cutting (calorie deficit diet) and lose the fat. Pretty sure all lifters go through regular cycles of Surplus/Maintenance/Deficit diets and I'm hoping that if I can get my body fat percentage to something like 6-8% then after that even if I bulk I won't ever see a gut again.

Built

You asked that and I answered - you are no longer a newbie.
There is one other way you can drop bodyfat and gain muscle, and I told you that part too.

Sorry.

5 kg in three months is just about a perfect gain to plan - if you do everything right and have good genetics, about half of this will be muscle.

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- My UD2.0 setup.

Logman

Pretty sure my genetics suck. Always been quite skinny but now the old metabolism has slowed down putting on weight seems to be quite easy. And losing it seems to be quite easy too.

PreMier

its possible, and i have bodpod results for myself to prove it. i would have to check the results again, but i put in 5-6lbs of lbm and lost about .5lb of fat. it was over the course of 6 months, with no major changes to diet/cardio/training.

does it mean that everyone or anyone can do it? no, and for the most part i would say not many people can

P-side Inc.

"the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

Built

You would have had to have changed your diet at least in terms of intake: you gained lean mass and kept it on.You would have had to have increased your calories by enough to create and support the increased lean mass and increased overall weight of your body.

BODPOD has been shown to underestimate bodyfat when compared with the gold-standard DEXA, but you did your pre and post test with BODPOD so that's a moot point. BODPOD has been shown to be accurate to within plus or minus 3 percentage points <link>

If I'm reading this right, the following example will serve as a demonstration:

I currently weigh about 140lbs and carry roughly 17% bodyfat (assume for this exercise that I really do know this). If measured repeatedly by a properly calibrated BODPOD, it could produce a result of anywhere from 14% to 20%, which means a properly calibrated BODPOD could reasonably be expected to estimate my lean mass as anywhere between 112 lbs and 120.4 lbs.

I could get tested on two consecutive days and on the second day show an apparent muscle gain - or loss. If the second test was right after a wheat-filled carbup and I showed up weighing a bloated 147.5 (this is TOTALLY possible for me if I eat a lot of wheat), testing on the SAME properly calibrated BODPOD could report a half pound fat loss and an 8 lb muscle gain and (7.5 lbs net gain) still be working within normal operating parameters.

You weigh more than I do so these demonstration numbers could be even more exaggerated.

Now, I'm not saying you didn't actually experience recomposition - you may very well have gained a bit of muscle and lost a bit of fat over this period. But you have no way to know how much of each based on the method you used.

- Signed, the Party-Pooper

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Built

PS if I interpreted this incorrectly, I'm quite certain somebody will be happy to drop by and shoot me down.

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juggernaut

hey Majestyc, you might want to touch up on a diet called ultimate diet 2.0. It is a cutting diet that I had great results with and can also be used as a bulking diet. check into it.
Overall, however, I really dont think a little fat gain is going to kill you and may help your gains.

PreMier

no, you are correct for the most part. i did both tests early in the morning, before any food was consumed, and they were exactly 6 months apart(within 2 days). i had a weight gain of 6lbs, and it showed as lbm, and a slight drop in fat weight. i tried to keep the variables as consistent as possible. and honestly if you know of a better way, then please do share

most people use caliper testing, and that leaves a huge area for human error, especially if a different person does it, or they are inexperienced. the bod pod was as accurate or more so than hydrostatis testing. getting a dxa scan is out of the question for me.. i have never heard of any one using this method, and i wouldnt know where to get it done.

so, i did everything in my power to make sure i tested correctly, and it showed lbm gain over 6 months without any fat gain. and 6lbs of lbm in 6 months isnt a lot at all. the testing showed that i successfully recomped. so you can doubt it if you would like.. but again i dont know of a better way to test it.

P-side Inc.

"the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

Built

Okay, the BEST way: render the body. Measure the liquid fat, dehydrate the remains, separate out the bone...

Next best is DEXA. I highly recommend DEXA testing - I've had three done, and it's very interesting. Not only does it tell you fat mass, it tells you bone mass and muscle mass, all broken down by left and right leg, left and right arm, trunk, head (I have a fat head LOL!)

Really cool to see not only what the net change in LBM is, but also WHERE it changed, and where the fat comes from and goes to.

I get them done through nuclear medicine at Lion's Gate Hospital in North Vancouver, BC. 95 bucks, or 65 bucks if you have a PT call it in.

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- My UD2.0 setup.

juggernaut

i assume thats where you received the massive overdose of gamma radiation, turning you into a hulking 9 ft creature, thought to have committed a crime in which you must now make the world think you are dead until you find a way to control the creature?

chronicelite

LMAO

juggernaut

oh and you must always change your last name from something that begins the letter "B"; as in Beaker, Banning, Busby, Becker...etc.

Built

Roflmfao!

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Lobo2009

add some morning cardio to help keep the fat in check and you also may need to check the timing of your carb intake.

Moondogg

this is the second incorrect post ive seen of yours bud, i think you need to do some reading ^^stickies!!

Lobo2009

You believe cardio is of no benefit when trying to keep the fat off and put on muscle?

Can you point me at the sticky your referring to?

chronicelite

In my opinion the best way to do what you're asking is calorie cycling.

5 days of the week, eat 500 calories below maintenance
2 days of the week, eat 700 calories above maintenance

This also serves to stop your body from slowing down it's metabolism due to starvation.

Moondogg

if i were you i would probably head to the 'diet and nutrition' section and take a look at the stickie 'gudie to bulking, maint and cutting' its probably the best place to start. i also think that going through past D&N threads and reading the posts by Built esp. will give you better knowledge of the muscle building process.

unless you are an absolute beginner or using drugs, you cant keep the fat off and put on muscle, it doesnt work like that. cardio can be of benefit when trying to gain muscle, but not in terms of keeping fat off. in order to gain muscle you must be in a caloric surplus, performing cardio can make it harder to reach this surplus. so unless you have your diet dialled in, performing cardio every morning while trying to add muscle will just leave you spinning your wheels. because you need to be in a surplus to gain muscle, this leads to the inevitable fat gain. however if you have you diet in check and monitor your progress you can keep this fat gain to a relative minimum.

After you do some reading ask away about anthing your confuse about. youd be amazed how much more willing people are to help with the question asker has actually done some research before hand. hope this helped.

Moondogg

why do you go so high above maint. on the surplus days?

Built

Well, let's turn this around here. How do you think it helps?

By burning off fat calories? It will burn some fat - half an hour of moderate intensity cardio might burn what, 180 calories? That translates to ... wait for it ... 20 grams of fat. TWENTY. Why, that's 0.045 pounds! Yep, gonna get you RIPPED!

But really, I'm exaggerating here - you won't only burn fat. You'll burn fat, muscle, glucose, glycogen... 0.045 lbs fat loss in a half an hour of moderate cardio is a pipe-dream.

So how else would it help - by building muscle, like it does for all those jacked marathon runners?

Now I'm not saying "don't do it". A little cardio is good for your heart, good for circulation, burns off stress, clears the metabolites from lifting and even helps you reglycogenate if you do a little after a meal.

Just don't look to it to make you jacked and ripped.

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Skib

Keep in mind this method applies the use of ionizing radiation which should always be kept as low as reasonably achievable. In other words this procedure should be used based on a demonstrated medical need rather than satisfy the bodybuilder's curiosity :P

Moondogg

I cant believe that i went to all that trouble to make a helpful post...when i could have had SOO much more fun and taken the piss at the same time

Moondogg

You definitely copy and pasted that from somewhere!!

PreMier

P-side Inc.

"the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

Skib

haha no i work in the field of medical imaging... i'm an x-ray/cat scan technologist :P

Moondogg

that thought did cross my mind before i posted, but i decided to play the odds and call you out. fair deal, you won

Built

That's awesome, Skib!

I had my DEXAs done because I wanted data on how much more muscle I could expect to gain on a bulk, unassisted (if you're curious, I gained 18 lbs from end of cut to end of bulk over about five months and netted 3 lbs of extra muscle. Yeah, I know, I'm JAYAKED baby!!!)

I also wanted to actually KNOW my bodyfat percentage. You hear people posting up all kinds of crazy numbers and there's no way some of these are as lean as they say they are.

In my profile/avatar pic I'm 14%. Lower body holds more fat on females; our numbers are higher than a comparably lean male.

The other cool thing I got to see was my bone density. Middle-aged and dieted-down lean enough to almost see my spleen, my bone density was more than two standard deviations higher than normal for a woman of twenty.

Lifting works.

-Signed, "Glows in the dark"

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