Thread: Building muscle, without fat?

stop asking questions and start reading the stickies and use the search function. these things have been hashed out a million times over.

patrick

Originally Posted by someguy1984

I've heard speculation that you can gain muscle, without gaining weight and eating over maintenance. Well, you would gain weight, but very slowly and not much at all. Is this true?

Well let me ask you this, does muscle weigh anything? I don't understand this statement. If you gain muscle surely you're getting heavier? But no, there needs to be fuel to synthesize new tissue, and that fuel comes from calories.

Originally Posted by someguy1984

Apparently, if you eat protein 1g per lb of body weight and a normal diet, you can gain muscle. But, to gain weight/muscle/fat, you have to eat over maintenance. Eating a normal diet will take longer, but you can actually build muscle while eating a normal diet, since you are lifting weights and making your muscles stronger. I know your supposed to eat over maintenance to gain additional weight and muscle together, but if your happy with your weight and want to just gain some muscle, isn't this a logical solution, rather than getting bigger and having to cut excess body fat?

Strength is not the same as size. If you're getting stronger it can be from neural adaptation rather than increased muscle size. Again, muscle IS weight. More muscle will make you heavier. Your muscles are not filled with helium!

The more calories you eat over maintenance, the quicker you will put on weight. This weight will either be in the form of muscle tissue, and any excess energy your body cannot synthesize into muscle tissue will be stored as fat.

So yes, if you eat 100 calories over your expenditure you will gain less weight than if you eat 500 or 1000 over your expenditure. I believe this is the principle of a "clean bulk" ie - bulking very slowly so as not to put on much fat due to grossly excessive calories.

Originally Posted by someguy1984

Everyone wants to get bigger..But, what about an athletic build? How do you get that toned athletic body? It can't be through diet, because they have muscle...Although, it's not body building, because they wouldn't be flexible...Their has to be some middle ground, or supplements, steroids, etc...Otherwise, it just doesn't make too much sense...

What do you mean it cant be through diet because they have muscle? Muscle is built through excess calories in the diet! Everybody has muscles, otherwise we wouldnt be walking around.

An athletic build is generally a build with less muscle tissue on it than a highly muscular bodybuilder type build. This definition is subjective. To get that "toned" body all you need is low bodyfat, which is acheived through eating less calories than you expend in order to use up fat stores.

Sure you need above-average sized muscles as well as low bodyfat, but why cant you have both? Just because you gain or lose weight, its not all going to be either muscle or fat, it will most likely be a bit of both.

Originally Posted by someguy1984

Or, do you HAVE to eat more calories do get stronger and gain muscle? Personally, i don't know if i believe this, because when i first started i weighed 143lbs and i could overhead shoulder press 30lb dumbbells. Now, i can overhead shoulder press 60lb dumbbells in each hand, but only weigh 147lbs. I don't eat over maintenance...I've also increased everything...My squat went from 85 and being sore, to 185 and not being sore...

To gain muscle yes you need to eat more calories than you expend. To get stronger, no - all you need to do is lift progressively heavier weights. Though at a certain point you will need to increase muscle size to get stronger. You can get as neurally efficient as you like (recruit the maximum amount of muscle as efficiently as possible to complete a contraction) but at some point there will be a limit, and a greater amount of muscle will be needed to move the weight.

Soreness also means nothing, you are not sore anymore because you are used to lifting.

Originally Posted by someguy1984

Would this be considered newbie gains, or is it possible you can gain muscle without gaining fat slowly...Because i count calories and i am 100% positive i do not eat over maintenance and i do HIIT cardio 2x a week. If i haven't gained muscle, i've obviously gained strength...Is their a difference between strength and muscle?

Perhaps you havent gained anything. My weight fluctuates by more that 4lbs during the day. In the morning i can weigh 160 and in the evening i can weigh about 168. Its normal for weight to fluctuate like that.

Like i said above, your body will adapt and allow you to get stronger neurally by becoming more efficient at recruiting muscle. Size isnt directly related to this.

Originally Posted by P-funk

stop asking questions and start reading the stickies and use the search function. these things have been hashed out a million times over.

patrick

Do this. There is a lot more information than i just posted in the stickies and other topics.

Originally Posted by P-funk

stop asking questions and start reading the stickies and use the search function. these things have been hashed out a million times over.

patrick

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Those are the stickies and i did look before i made this post. Nothing implies anything i asked...This is a thread and people can make whatever questions they want. If you don't want to answer, that's fine. But, maybe you shouldn't be a moderator?

I ask to learn and i read the stickies in this training forum as you see and nothing had anything to do with this question.

Keep in mind, your on this forum constantly, so YOU know where everything is. People who make accounts aren't going to go search around in all these areas when they can simply ask their main question...Sure, it's repetitive to you, but to us it's NEW. So, perhaps getting a new hobby for you is in order, or at least being considerate. I don't spend hours a day on here, sorry...You could have at least given me the sticky and i would have read over it, instead of being a hard a$$ and trying to make me feel stupid. Your a moderator, I would expect you could do a little more than just say, "stop asking questions and read stickies." Come on man, if you don't like this, find something else to do...

maybe if you eat the exact amount of food that you need, not to much not to little, all the time, exact times =D why not bulk up then cut up? thats what im currently doing

Its possible sure. Good look making serious progress for any extended period of time doing it though.

Originally Posted by someguy1984

I've heard speculation that you can gain muscle, without gaining weight and eating over maintenance. Well, you would gain weight, but very slowly and not much at all. Is this true?

To gain muscle you need to eat enough calories to facilitate growth. this is only possible by eating over your caloric maintenance. Maintenance means that you are eating enough to maintain your body weight at your given daily expenditure. If you don't exceed that, you don't grow.



Apparently, if you eat protein 1g per lb of body weight and a normal diet, you can gain muscle. But, to gain weight/muscle/fat, you have to eat over maintenance. Eating a normal diet will take longer, but you can actually build muscle while eating a normal diet, since you are lifting weights and making your muscles stronger. I know your supposed to eat over maintenance to gain additional weight and muscle together, but if your happy with your weight and want to just gain some muscle, isn't this a logical solution, rather than getting bigger and having to cut excess body fat?

Again, you need t eat over maintenance to gain muscle mass. 1g per lb of bodyweight is a general rule of thumb for meeting protein requirements. If you aren't eating enough calories (IE over maintenance), then you are going to have some of that protein go towards repair of tissue and some of that protein used for other means (fat storage, possibly converted to glucose, etc). If you are happy with your weight, then don't change. If you want to gain muscle, then you have to understand that you will gain some body fat with the muscle you gain. At the end, you will have to diet the fat off to see your results.



Everyone wants to get bigger..But, what about an athletic build? How do you get that toned athletic body? It can't be through diet, because they have muscle...Although, it's not body building, because they wouldn't be flexible...Their has to be some middle ground, or supplements, steroids, etc...Otherwise, it just doesn't make too much sense...

Diet, Diet, Diet. That and a well-balance training program.


Or, do you HAVE to eat more calories do get stronger and gain muscle? Personally, i don't know if i believe this, because when i first started i weighed 143lbs and i could overhead shoulder press 30lb dumbbells. Now, i can overhead shoulder press 60lb dumbbells in each hand, but only weigh 147lbs. I don't eat over maintenance...I've also increased everything...My squat went from 85 and being sore, to 185 and not being sore...

Strength is a product of neurological efficiency. That being said, you can gain strength up to a certain point and then you may have to consider gaining muscle if you want to make further gains. If you have a glass of water and the water represents your strength and then glass represents your muscle - you can only fill that glass up with so much strength. Once you reach the top, you have no other choice but to get a bigger glass.



Would this be considered newbie gains, or is it possible you can gain muscle without gaining fat slowly...Because i count calories and i am 100% positive i do not eat over maintenance and i do HIIT cardio 2x a week. If i haven't gained muscle, i've obviously gained strength...Is their a difference between strength and muscle?

Newb gains are primarily increases in neurological efficiency - intra and intermuscular coordination.

Yes, there is a difference between strength and muscle. Train for strength and you will get strong. Eat a high calorie diet and you will gain muscle.


hope that helps.

patrick

I'll take a look.

Also, I'll eat over maintenance and just watch my fat gain and cut back if it gets out of control.

It sucks having a gut

The ladies won't like that, lol

Originally Posted by someguy1984

I'll take a look.

Also, I'll eat over maintenance and just watch my fat gain and cut back if it gets out of control.

It sucks having a gut

The ladies won't like that, lol

As one of my favorite actors Denzel Washington said in Training day " Make a decision man make a decision"

You want to add muscle and get bigger?.... or cut? I'm finishing a bulk and I have a six pack still. OF course I've been lifting a while and added the muscle a while a ago. Bulk and Cut and bulk and cut.

Can your body turn your excess bodyfat to muscle or is the muscle gain and fatloss function totaly seperate?

totally separate... fat cannot magically be turned into muscle...

Originally Posted by Dodge

Can your body turn your excess bodyfat to muscle or is the muscle gain and fatloss function totaly seperate?

No.

Muscle cells are not fat cells or adipose tissue and they never will be.

This is like saying can you turn blood cells into bone, skin into liver cells, or a foot into your eyes.

They are totally different structures

Originally Posted by Dodge

Can your body turn your excess bodyfat to muscle or is the muscle gain and fatloss function totaly seperate?

No, and no to the vice versa of "when you stop lifting it turns into fat" by all of the people who have never been big.

Double edge sword, its a bitch that you cant turn your beer belly into biceps but a relief that pecs dont turn into tits lol. Thanks for that info