Thread: Shoes...

Pfunk could give you a real good answer to this, but im sure its because it leaves your body in a more natural position.

Hopefully he responds.


The shoes I'm using right now have an inclined heel. Which I'm sure isn't good.

i like to train barefoot as much as possible...

but alot of people will badger me on how terrible this is

Originally Posted by Ben dur

i like to train barefoot as much as possible...

but alot of people will badger me on how terrible this is

Lol. I'm not about to walk into my gym barefoot.

Originally Posted by RasPlasch

Lol. I'm not about to walk into my gym barefoot.

well...

obviously im not talking about int the gym

Bumpity Bump!

As far as squats and deadlifts go, it is easier to maintain a position where the weight is loaded through the heels.

on squats and deadlifts i prefer using a slightly raised heel allows me to go deeper

I use a slightly raised heel also. I just don't know if its a good thing, a bad thing, or just doesn't matter.

If you need a higher heel to go deeper, it generally means you are lacking mobility in your ankle (specifically dorsiflexion). Get that ankle mobile and you'll go deep without the heel.

Originally Posted by Yanick

If you need a higher heel to go deeper, it generally means you are lacking mobility in your ankle (specifically dorsiflexion). Get that ankle mobile and you'll go deep without the heel.

Originally Posted by Yanick

If you need a higher heel to go deeper, it generally means you are lacking mobility in your ankle (specifically dorsiflexion). Get that ankle mobile and you'll go deep without the heel.

Que?

oh man - i have a bunch of replies to this thread and (to yan) - it may mean that you have ankle restrictions but it could also mean you have issues with core stabiltiy, pelvic stability, hip mobility, in ability to drive thoracic extension (thoracic mobility probalms) during the decent.

off to do some cardio....more later.

patrick

Originally Posted by Yanick

If you need a higher heel to go deeper, it generally means you are lacking mobility in your ankle (specifically dorsiflexion). Get that ankle mobile and you'll go deep without the heel.

I know from research and knowledgeable people on this forum that your answer is correct. But, my personal experience has lead me to believe otherwise for my personal situation.

I have a very tall torso and average length legs. I have trained squats for a lot of years with great success and I think my form is spot on. But, I need heel elevation even get to parallel when I use shoulder width foot placement. I have tried everything to get what people are calling ankle mobility, but it simply doesn't work. I can't even squat to parallel with no weight without heel elevation. Now if I put some 10 or 25lb plates on the ground to stand on I can go ATG.

About 3 years ago I just said fuck it and switched to sumo style squat and avoided the problem.

i just kept doing it and i kept going deeper and deeper eventually i could break even without raised heels now im working at bottoming out lol without them

you can really lift in what feels comfortable to you. sometimes i use my flat shoes (adidas samba classics) and I used to have a pair of Nike Free Trainers (I liked training in those too) and sometimes I just use my regular running shoes.

Some of the problems with shoes other than the flat soled shoes is that:

a) the cushioning of the sole means that some of the force you put into the ground gets dissipated.

b) some of the shoes are very cushy (especially some of the nike air ones) and allow for to much movement of the foot (especially lateral movement) which isn't good.

c) the stabilizers of the foot (intrinsic muscles of the foot) don't really get worked in shoes that are very supportive.

d) the elevation of the heel picthes the hips forward and places you in a more of an anteriorly tilted position.

The flat shoes help to put you in touch with the ground (allowing for better proprioception) and can help to strengthen the ankle and foot.

As stated by Yan, the increase in the heel could indicate an ankle mobility issue. This issue could be soft tissue related (IE, tightness of the plantar flexors) or joint related (IE, improper joint function, poor tibial glide over the talus, etc).

I'd like to take this one step further and say that biomechanically, the need for a heel lift may mean dysfunctions somewhere in the chain (I have seen people with normal ankle mobility who still couldn't squat down without compensation or form breaking down). Remeber, when we add a heel lift, we not only change the mechanics at the ankle, but over the entire body! The hips shift anteriorly, the torso/spine remains more upright, the head/neck can look straight ahead as the cervical curve is changed due to the increased lumbar curve. A dysfunction in any of these areas may change the squatting pattern without the heel lift. If someone is overly kyphotic, for example, the lack of thoracic mobility (specifically the in ability to drive thoracic extension) is going to change torso/truck position during the squat and force the foot and ankle complex to compensate to get to the full depth. Finally, the other thing we didn't look at is poor core function. If core function is poor it inhibits the ability of the body to maintain pelvic alignment during the squat, which changes the whey the hips have to move (ah - so maybe the knees buckling in on the squat isn't just a problem with a weak glute medius!!) and again, changes the way the ankle moves and the foot interacts with the ground.

Ok, that is enough on that. Just some things to think about.

patrick

Originally Posted by RasPlasch

I use a slightly raised heel also. I just don't know if its a good thing, a bad thing, or just doesn't matter.

My feeling is that it's like everything else in lifting, you do what works best for you. I've seen people do squats with a 10 lb plate under each heel because they say it allows them to push from their heels. When I try that it throws me forward and DOESN'T allow me to push from my heels. I'm like Ben dur, I like squatting bare foot. (Luckily I've got a rack at home so I can do that.)

Originally Posted by ALBOB

My feeling is that it's like everything else in lifting, you do what works best for you. I've seen people do squats with a 10 lb plate under each heel because they say it allows them to push from their heels. When I try that it throws me forward and DOESN'T allow me to push from my heels. I'm like Ben dur, I like squatting bare foot. (Luckily I've got a rack at home so I can do that.)

I disagree with the "do what works best for you."

What works best for people is to go with the compensation - the body always seeks the path of least resistance.

Fix the problem! Never add strength to Dysfunction, as this is how people end up getting hurt or developing annoying overuse injuries and aches and pains.

patrick

Originally Posted by P-funk

I disagree with the "do what works best for you."

What works best for people is to go with the compensation - the body always seeks the path of least resistance.

Fix the problem! Never add strength to Dysfunction, as this is how people end up getting hurt or developing annoying overuse injuries and aches and pains.

patrick

Okay, I can see your point. And it's probably because I didn't phrase my response well enough. I wasn't addressing the issues as though there WAS a problem.

Say for instance your pecs are a lagging body part, what do you do? You get in the gym and bench press your ass off, right? But what if bench presses just don't work for you? Do you keep on doing bench presses or switch to something else that more thoroughly targets your pecs? I my case bench presses are almost useless to me but I can absolutely hammer my pecs with slightly inclined dumbell presses. So, should I keep doing bench presses just because conventional wisdom says I should? In the case of squats I meant do whatever targets your quads best, assuming you don't have some sort of "problem" otherwise.

Originally Posted by ALBOB

Okay, I can see your point. And it's probably because I didn't phrase my response well enough. I wasn't addressing the issues as though there WAS a problem.

Say for instance your pecs are a lagging body part, what do you do? You get in the gym and bench press your ass off, right? But what if bench presses just don't work for you? Do you keep on doing bench presses or switch to something else that more thoroughly targets your pecs? I my case bench presses are almost useless to me but I can absolutely hammer my pecs with slightly inclined dumbell presses. So, should I keep doing bench presses just because conventional wisdom says I should? In the case of squats I meant do whatever targets your quads best, assuming you don't have some sort of "problem" otherwise.

the example of the bench press - I agree with that. If you feel you get a better response from a different exercise, then go for it. My post about compensation would have been something like "Bench press doens't work for me because I can't touch the bar to me chest - so I just do half reps now or decline presses." That would be indicative of a problem and an issue that needs to be addressed.

I see what you are saying about the targeting of quads. I do still thing that the individual should do some squatting without the heel lift, to make sure that the body still learns the appropriate squat pattern and not the squat pattern that is compensatory (IE, the heel lift which changes the entire chain).

see what i mean?

patrick