Routine Critique -- From 5 x 5 to Mix of 5 x 5 / Hypertrophy

**kyoun1e** · 03-20-2009, 06:03 PM

I'm going to be done with my 4th week of 5 x 5 soon. While I'm pretty satisfied with progress I keep hearing that it's important to introduce some variance. I also want to compliment this strength work with hypertrophy to gain size.

First question before I get to the routine -- is it too early to start mixing this up after 4 weeks?

Here's what I was thinking as far as routine. Three day split. Day 1 of a muscle group would stick with 5 x 5 while Day 2 of a given muscle grouping would go to a hypertrophy rep range while also incorporating short rest periods and possibly supersets.

Here are my initial thoughts...for example, horizontal push pull day would look like this:

* Flat Bench -- Day 1 5 x 5; Day 2, 3 x 10
* Barbell Rows -- Day 1, 5 x 5; Day 2, 3 x 12
* Incline Bench -- Day 1, 5 x 5; Day 2, 2 x 12
* One Arm Rows -- Day 1, 5 x 5; Day 2, 2 x 12
* Weighted Dips -- Day 1, 5 x 5; Day 2, 2 x 12

Anyone try anything like this with success?

Thanks.

KY

**Built** · 03-20-2009, 07:17 PM

Yanno who to ask for help here? P-Funk.

You eating enough to ensure weight gain? <-sorry, reflex, I have to ask...

**kyoun1e** · 03-20-2009, 07:42 PM

I'm working on it Built.

When I first got to this board I was probably consuming 2500 calories a day. Now I"m up to 3000. Steady progress. Slow, but steady.

KY

**Built** · 03-20-2009, 07:43 PM

What macros, roughly, do you run?

**kyoun1e** · 03-20-2009, 07:48 PM

Here's the last week's daily average:

* Protien: 234g
* Carbs: 199g
* Fat: 136g

I'm 208 lbs right now.

KY

**Built** · 03-20-2009, 07:50 PM

Fat's nice and high, protein COULD go up if you wanted it to, so could carbs, but really, looks good.

What's the hard part for you about getting the calories in?

**kyoun1e** · 03-20-2009, 08:00 PM

Just can't seem to stuff it into me.

I feel like I"m making a lot or progress. I mean...damn...I never really ate breakfast before and now I'm consuming 800+ calories before 8:30 AM. Each week it seems like I can take more in. Would think when April hits I'll be 3,200ish anyways.

More protien would be easy enough. I only take one protien drink a day right now.

KY

**Built** · 03-20-2009, 08:06 PM

Ah, here you go then: more liquid food.

Into a blender:
scoop of protein powder
A few ice cubes
milk - WHOLE milk
shot of olive oil
shot of chocolate syrup
scoop of dextrose if you have it

Optional: grind oats to a flour in a coffee mill and keep in a jar for such occasions. Toss a scoop into the blender with the above.

Blend, knock back, go to sleep.

Have a dry shake with protein and dextrose in a shaker cup, and a glass of water beside it ready to rock and roll for when you wake up - just fill it with water and knock it back on your way to the bathroom.

Another trick: eat lower fiber carbs - white rice, white flour, white noodles.

**kyoun1e** · 03-20-2009, 08:11 PM

Hell, I can do that.

Dextrose...need to Google that.

Question: How much protien from powder is too much?

Right now I"m at 30g per day. This is accounts for 12.5% of my average daily protien intake.

There's something about doing the protien shake that says I'm "cheating."

I figure there must be some line in the sand where it's too much.

KY

**Built** · 03-20-2009, 08:16 PM

There is no line in the sand where it's too much.

Protein powder is just food. You eat pasta? Bread? Those are made from powdered wheat. That's not cheating, right? Same difference.

**Built** · 03-20-2009, 08:16 PM

Dextrose is sold as corn sugar at ubrew stores, cheap. I think I pay five bucks for a couple of kg of it at Superstore.

**kyoun1e** · 03-20-2009, 08:21 PM

Sweet!

New concoction will be made starting tmrw!

**kyoun1e** · 03-20-2009, 08:22 PM

And thanks much Built!

**P-funk** · 03-20-2009, 08:47 PM

Increasing load is a great stimulus. 5 reps is fine to see hypertrophic gains provided you are eating adequatly.

I would stick with 5x5 for longer and keep on getting stronger. Once you start to stall out on progress, move to 3x3. Here is one of my 5x5 routines that will definitely get your strong and pack the size on!

Patrick

**the7zen** · 03-20-2009, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Built

Ah, here you go then: more liquid food.

Into a blender:
scoop of protein powder
A few ice cubes
milk - WHOLE milk
shot of olive oil
shot of chocolate syrup
scoop of dextrose if you have it

Optional: grind oats to a flour in a coffee mill and keep in a jar for such occasions. Toss a scoop into the blender with the above.

Blend, knock back, go to sleep.

Have a dry shake with protein and dextrose in a shaker cup, and a glass of water beside it ready to rock and roll for when you wake up - just fill it with water and knock it back on your way to the bathroom.

Another trick: eat lower fiber carbs - white rice, white flour, white noodles.

Hey Built, a quick question on this...
is it ok to have the protein with dextrose first thing in the morning while cutting ? or just take the protein with water ?

**Built** · 03-20-2009, 11:03 PM

Is it okay? Sure, if you still hit your macros and you're comfortable.

Why, do you train in the AM? If you don't, I can't see why you'd WANT dex in the AM, but it's just calories. Stick to your limit and you're golden.

**the7zen** · 03-20-2009, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Built

Is it okay? Sure, if you still hit your macros and you're comfortable.

Why, do you train in the AM? If you don't, I can't see why you'd WANT dex in the AM, but it's just calories. Stick to your limit and you're golden.

Thanks Built, Some days because of work I hit the GYM in the AM and I just take protein with water at that time, tried milk instead of water but felt very uncomfortable, thought i would try the dex.

**Built** · 03-20-2009, 11:57 PM

Oh, in this case then by all means, yes. Toss your creatine into it, if you're taking it.

**the7zen** · 03-21-2009, 12:06 AM

cool, just bought the creatine this evening I will add it to the shake, thanks much for your help...you rock

**Built** · 03-21-2009, 12:08 AM

Drop me a line anytime.

**kyoun1e** · 03-21-2009, 05:12 AM

P-Funk,

Does the 3 x 3 squeeze the last bit out of this routine?

What do you move to after the 10 weeks are up? Something more higher volume?

I think I'll roll with the 5 x 5 through April. This will give me more or less 8 weeks on this routine. Maybe I'll work in 3 x 3 towards the end there.

At some point I've got to mix it up though. My body is going to need to be surprised to keep gains going. Mixing in hypertrophy around May 1 may be perfect timing with beach weather a couple months away.

Thanks.

KY

**T_man** · 03-21-2009, 05:33 AM

Just a question.
How does 5x5 actually work for developing the whole body?? things like abs, side delts, calves, hams and glutes.
Surely if you're doing 3 exercises it hits different muscles at different intensities and so *as would be thought* eliciting and un-even muscle development.
Or is this something to do with hormones?

**kyoun1e** · 03-21-2009, 06:14 AM

A 5 x 5 incorporates mostly compound movements -- bench, squats, presses, etc. Also, depending on your routine, some isolation is allowed as well.

You're hitting the whole body believe me.

And whether you're 5 x 5 or 3 x 8 you should still be using compound movements.

KY

**T_man** · 03-21-2009, 06:40 AM

Do you switch round which exercises you do?? Or do you just do the same 3 for a few weeks?

**kyoun1e** · 03-21-2009, 06:48 AM

I stick more or less with the same, but rotate some in and out of muscle groupings to mix it up and keep the body guessing.

You should read some of the stickies...vs. listening to someone like me. I'm more or less a 40 year old beginner here. There's a lot of good advice and information here that can get you on the right track.

KY

**P-funk** · 03-21-2009, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by kyoun1e

P-Funk,

Does the 3 x 3 squeeze the last bit out of this routine?

What do you move to after the 10 weeks are up? Something more higher volume?

I think I'll roll with the 5 x 5 through April. This will give me more or less 8 weeks on this routine. Maybe I'll work in 3 x 3 towards the end there.

At some point I've got to mix it up though. My body is going to need to be surprised to keep gains going. Mixing in hypertrophy around May 1 may be perfect timing with beach weather a couple months away.

Thanks.

KY

The 3x3 is the intensification phase. The 5x5 is the accumulation (higher volume) phase.

The only reason you need to "mix it up to suprise your body" is if you believe that stupid shit in flex magazine or the P90x commercials.

Variation can come in many varieties - load, intesnity, volume, exercise selection, exercise tempo, rest interval, etc. As a total beginner, you can ride with the same exercises for a long time and make great progress.

patrick

**P-funk** · 03-21-2009, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by T_man

Do you switch round which exercises you do?? Or do you just do the same 3 for a few weeks?

Keep the exercises the same! This is the best way to know if you are making progress. Also, by keeping the exercises the same and adding weight each week, you are creating stress which your body can adapt to; which equals gains.

patrick

**P-funk** · 03-21-2009, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by T_man

Just a question.
How does 5x5 actually work for developing the whole body?? things like abs, side delts, calves, hams and glutes.
Surely if you're doing 3 exercises it hits different muscles at different intensities and so *as would be thought* eliciting and un-even muscle development.
Or is this something to do with hormones?

When you squat a heavy weight for 5 sets of 5 reps; come back and post here and let us know how it hit your abs, shoulders, delts, calves, hams and glutes.

Your body learns movements, not muscles. If you learn the proper movement patterns, the muscles will have to increase size and strength in order to adapt to the stress you are placing on them.

patrick

**T_man** · 03-21-2009, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by P-funk

When you squat a heavy weight for 5 sets of 5 reps; come back and post here and let us know how it hit your abs, shoulders, delts, calves, hams and glutes.

Your body learns movements, not muscles. If you learn the proper movement patterns, the muscles will have to increase size and strength in order to adapt to the stress you are placing on them.

patrick

I tried but it didnt hit my hams, lower glutes, calves or delts as much as the quads. Surely if you do just squats you'll get quads out of proportion with the other parts of the legs.

Btw I'm not arguing for the sake I just wan't to beat a good answer out of you seeing as asking normally doesn't work ^_^

**P-funk** · 03-21-2009, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by T_man

I tried but it didnt hit my hams, lower glutes, calves or delts as much as the quads. Surely if you do just squats you'll get quads out of proportion with the other parts of the legs.

Btw I'm not arguing for the sake I just wan't to beat a good answer out of you seeing as asking normally doesn't work ^_^

The hip extensors (glutes, hams, adductor magnus) work during a squat. Whether you feel or not, they are working. You may be a very quad dominant squatter and squat with a high bar, but they are still working.

If the case is one of fearing decreased hip extensor strength/balance. Then the program can look something like this:

Mon- squat, bench row

wed- deadlift, bench, chin up

fri- squat, bench row

patrick

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