Thread: Do you need muscle to cut?

Generally on a cut you will use SOME muscle as well as fat, the problem if you don't have much muscle start with should be fairly obvious, lol - you wont have any after you cut!

As somewhere to shoot for, bulk up to about 10-15lbs above the weight you want to be when you're done cutting.

Then cut, and you'll end up where you want to be - with some muscle, but with abs and all that stuff.

So if you're happy with your size right now at 152, but you want to be a cut up 152, youd need to bulk up to 160-165lbs then cut to 152.

If you cut at 152, youll probably end up at about 140lbs cut up, which might end up too small and all that definition wont actually be defining anything.

Does that make sense?

Also, welcome to the forums!

Well first you have a lot to learn and it's good you at least read some of the sticky's. You really need to read the rest though to help you understand.

The things you want to focus on are the diet sticky's.

One tip, if your goal is to cut and drop BF then you need to up your cardio. Don't drop the lifting!

Get your diet regimen in check first and post it for us to look over and then we can all suggest a cardio and lifting program for you.

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Generally on a cut you will use SOME muscle as well as fat, the problem if you don't have much muscle start with should be fairly obvious, lol - you wont have any after you cut!

As somewhere to shoot for, bulk up to about 10-15lbs above the weight you want to be when you're done cutting.

Then cut, and you'll end up where you want to be - with some muscle, but with abs and all that stuff.

So if you're happy with your size right now at 152, but you want to be a cut up 152, youd need to bulk up to 160-165lbs then cut to 152.

If you cut at 152, youll probably end up at about 140lbs cut up, which might end up too small and all that definition wont actually be defining anything.

Does that make sense?

Also, welcome to the forums!

I mean, yeah i would say I'm happy with my weight now and i wouldn't care about weighing 140lbs either...Like i said, i don't really want a body builder look. More flexibility and cross training type. I have additional fat and I'm probably about 14% or so. It seems odd to bulk up to 17-19% and cut down. I don't want to ever get that high in b/f...

Example:

I'm going for a body type more like this. If he was my height, he would probably weigh about 140lbs...Only difference is, i'm an endomorph, so genetically i would never look like this, yet i could achieve a low b/f level.

It also takes time to build muscle and i believe 1lb of muscle is an additional 65 calories burned a day...But, you have to put on fat as well. Keep in mind I'm an endomorph, so the fat really packs on. Lets say i gain 2lb of muscle a month. (That's probably about right) That's 130 more calories my body is burning a day. But, i also just put on 3-4lbs of fat. I continue to do this for another month and gain another 2lbs of muscle and 3-4lbs of fat. (minimal) That's 260 extra calories burned a day and 7-8lbs of additional fat. At this point, i feel like i need to lose weight. I go on a cut and lose about 2lbs of muscle, but 6lbs of fat...Ok, the end result is me weighing more than i did to begin with and only burning an additional 130 calories per day. That's roughly how many calories are in a banana...This doesn't seem to logical unless your a body builder. Not to mention you need to slow down cardio and eat like a pig in order to gain weight...(not something a fit person wants to do, lol)

So, i assume if i went on a mild cut and continued to lift, my body should tone up and not gain any muscle, but lose fat...(few have gained muscle on a deficit) Wouldn't this be optimal?

What Gaz is saying is if you cut you will lose muscle as well. It's nearly impossible to cut effectively and not lose muscle

It's sounds like this isn't an issue for you though. So get your diet and training program in check and have at it.

Most on these forums aren't looking for that body type. At 5'6'' 140lbs (after your cut) it seems that you'd be nowhere near the look of the above picture but again if this is what you want then have at it and you could always do a slow bulk to add muscle after.

why do so many post that pic as their goal...?? who is this guy

Originally Posted by plums_jp

why do so many post that pic as their goal...?? who is this guy

He's the before pick!

He's the sort of guy that has a tattoo saying "I luv mom" on his butt cheek!!!
Seriously though he's the sort of guy my wife would want me to look like! But what does she know? She freakin runs half marathons and competes in triathalons!! What a waste of a good weekend!!!

Originally Posted by largepkg

Most on these forums aren't looking for that body type. At 5'6'' 140lbs (after your cut) it seems that you'd be nowhere near the look of the above picture .

How do you figure? He would be about that weight, if he was 5'6. This guy was never a big muscular guy. Just a small ectomorph on a cut. He doesn't weigh more than 155 in this picture.

Also, whoever said, "why do people post pics of their goals." Gee, i don't know, to help people realize that being 5'6 200 and benching 315lbs isn't everyones goal...If i didn't post the pic, you wouldn't understand.

The guy in the pic, is the actor in the movie "Never back down."

I never said i wanted to look like him and i clearly said i couldn't, because genetically it would be impossible...My point, is that i wouldn't mind being this skinny...

Also, you think 152lbs is light, but I'm 5'6 with a short torso. That's light, but not deathly skinny. If i was 5'10, i would weigh about 165, maybe more...

I'm on here for help and suggestions, not bashing for posting a pic. Also, i don't need comments from people who say "we don't want to look like that here." Good for you, but the idea is to give advice on the topic, not to just blow it off and laugh at the scenario...What does that do?

Thank you Gazhole for your suggestion and i look forward to your response.

That guy is closer to about 165lbs at your height than anything.

Also dont forget muscle weighs more than fat in the same volume.
So he may not have as much fat mass but because he has muscle he weighs alot more than you think.

and to c6z06, even if your argument holds weight, 15lbs of lean weight is not easy to obtain (comparing 140 ro 155), but I think he's still more.

Nobody is taking pot shots at you, man. No need to go on the defensive, okay? Just a few members have posted a picture of that guy in as many weeks.

LargePKG made the point i was gonna make:

Originally Posted by largepkg

It's sounds like this isn't an issue for you though. So get your diet and training program in check and have at it.

I.e. Read up on the info in the training section and the nutrition section, and post up a diet plan and a training program from the info you learn there.

Its also a good idea to do a search for threads that bear some resemblance to what you're asking.

But, chill out a little more. Maybe you're not used to the guys around here, but nobody was bashing you, and nobody is laughing at you. We're pretty laid back here and don't really take a bit of banter personally.

Rise above it, have a laugh, learn, and make some progress

Originally Posted by T_man

That guy is closer to about 165lbs at your height than anything.

Also dont forget muscle weighs more than fat in the same volume.
So he may not have as much fat mass but because he has muscle he weighs alot more than you think.

and to c6z06, even if your argument holds weight, 15lbs of lean weight is not easy to obtain (comparing 140 ro 155), but I think he's still more.

Muscle does not weigh more than fat.

A five pound pile of fat will take up more space (volume) than a five pound pile of muscle, but five pounds is still five pounds. Because muscle is more dense than fat, the person with less fat and more muscle will look smaller.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26...1177341903.jpg

Hence, why this guy would be about 140lbs if we was my height...The guy is a little over 6 foot and doesn't weigh more than 160lbs in these pics...

I did think people were bashing at first and i apologize for taking it that way. It just seemed odd...

This actor doesn't have the body to a typical guy in the gym. His body is much more athletic looking and refined. He looks like a soccer player or a surfer. Wouldn't a routine based around HIIT with low volume resistance training be the key to this look? Followed by a clean low calorie diet, to tighten your physique?

It's much more simple than you are making it.
You need to build more muscle. Then shed the excess fat.
140 is very light.

Originally Posted by C6zo6

Muscle does not weigh more than fat.

A five pound pile of fat will take up more space (volume) than a five pound pile of muscle, but five pounds is still five pounds. Because muscle is more dense than fat, the person with less fat and more muscle will look smaller.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26...1177341903.jpg

Hence, why this guy would be about 140lbs if we was my height...The guy is a little over 6 foot and doesn't weigh more than 160lbs in these pics...

I did think people were bashing at first and i apologize for taking it that way. It just seemed odd...

This actor doesn't have the body to a typical guy in the gym. His body is much more athletic looking and refined. He looks like a soccer player or a surfer. Wouldn't a routine based around HIIT with low volume resistance training be the key to this look? Followed by a clean low calorie diet, to tighten your physique?

muscle has more mass than fat, what you both said was right , thats besides the point

gazhole gave the best advise, pick a weight u want to be at, go on a clean bulk to 15 pounds over that , then have a clean cut to the weight you want , 5'6 152 pounds , after a cut will be pretty close to what you want i think, and i know because i'm about the same height as you and at 165 now. if after your cut u still have more fat then desired repeat the bulking and cutting process each time you will have a lower bf% because of increased muscle mass .....this will take time do not get discouraged