Shaping the shoulders

**T_man** · 04-06-2009, 04:03 PM

What are the best exercises for shaping the shoulders?? Im not talking about definition, as that would be bf loss, but I'm talking about shaping them, like getting them really 3d and round or something. I've noticed alot of people have like thick shoulders but only a few who actually do alot of shoulder work (for example boxers with their skipping & actual boxing) have shaped shoulders, rather than large.

I dont know if you get what im getting at

**Built** · 04-06-2009, 05:24 PM

There are three muscles to think about - rear, side and front delts.

Side delts make you look wide. Front and back make you look thick, and yes, they're both good.

Okay EVERYTHING I say sounds dirty.

Read this: Got Built? » The Shoulders of Giants

Make sure you do heavy rowing for back. That will fill in the rear delts better than anything.

**T_man** · 04-06-2009, 06:10 PM

is there a technique for the rowing?? Like bringing it up to around chest level rather than stomach to get the rear delts more involved?

**Built** · 04-06-2009, 06:10 PM

Just do them. Don't overthink it too much.

Try the shoulder module. I LOVE what it did for my delts!

**Ngordyn** · 04-06-2009, 06:21 PM

what she said dont over complicate things, keep your back straight and pull

**T_man** · 04-06-2009, 06:34 PM

well i'm definately gonna try those hang cleans, wall pushes and arnie presses next time. I'll take your shoulders as proof that the workout works built

Too bad I did my shoulders today, if only i'd posted this a day before! Although I think I might be hitting my shoulders too hard on a push day after heavy sets of pressing?

Those corner pushes are just like T bar rows except you're pushing upwards with the shoulder right - the way you set it up in a corner?

**Built** · 04-06-2009, 06:37 PM

That's right, like a t-bar. I do the "push press" variety, with a little momentum.

I train delts with lats. I train chest with horizontal pulling. You'll have to fiddle with how you organize your lifts.

And yes, thank you, I FINALLY have delts. I had NONE. I was the queen of shoulder pads in the eighties.

Ick.

**gopro** · 04-06-2009, 11:17 PM

I have had my greatest success with a very wide variety of laterals. I change the angles constantly. Presses are important too, but I have found a myriad of lateral and upright rows have rounded out my delts more than anything.

**Built** · 04-07-2009, 01:08 AM

I wouldn't recommend upright rows to a friend. Too much opportunity for rotator cuff damage, and the exercises I suggested are far more productive.

No offense.

**Merkaba** · 04-07-2009, 01:45 AM

I've never done alot of direct shoulder work. I just try to eliminate most momentum from my back and chest workouts. I do light weight shoulder raises and arnies...seldom go above 40 with the arnies, and seldom above 25 with the raises.

**Gazhole** · 04-07-2009, 08:28 AM

You can't shape a muscle, the shape is predetermined and cant be changed. You can make them bigger however, which is just training and eating

**T_man** · 04-07-2009, 11:45 AM

you can hit the different heads at different intensities to shape the muscle as a whole though cant you??

I dont like this "genetics" bs else I would be a skinny 7 stone kid and built wouldnt have those awesome delts!

**Built** · 04-07-2009, 12:02 PM

Pretty much every pressing movement you do will hit front delts. This includes millies, Arnies, Oly bar corner press, push press, bench press… those are easy to build.

Width happens from side delts - but these are little muscles relative to the anterior delt. You won't look like you've got any kind of size if you only do side laterals and upright rows; you simply can't go heavy enough on these exercises to generate enough microtrauma. (As an aside, this is where the Arnold press really shines, since it combines a military press with a side lateral - the front AND the side delt get a hit. Superset this with laterals and you'll get the most from this movement, since side delts like volume!)

Compounding this problem is the fact that upright rows are notorious RC killers. That's why I highly recommend cleans.

Think about what a clean does - as you pull, you're really preparing to throw the weight, and you're HEAVING it. This generates a great deal of microtrauma at the insertions of your delts due to the fast eccentric component.

If I'm not mistaken (if I am, someone will surely come in and gleefully correct me…), fast eccentrics generate the most microtrauma, followed by fast concentrics and then slow eccentrics. The problem is that fast eccentrics have the potential to cause a lot of harm, at least over a full ROM. But for Olympic lifts, the fast eccentric component isn't over the full ROM, it's only over a small portion of it - and that portion happens to hit the delts in the same path as upright rows, but without the rotator cuff damage because you're not pulling through the portion of the movement where the elbows are externally rotated and the rotator cuff is compromised. Instead, you're catching the bar, preparing to drop it down to your thighs for the next rep. Guess what happens when you drop that weight? You got it, another tug at the insertions, and from what happened to my own delts, the side ones took one hell of a hit! I swear my shoulders blew up when I started doing these. I'd love to get this studied in a physiology lab, but in the meantime, try hang cleans next time someone suggests upright rows.

**Prince** · 04-07-2009, 12:06 PM

I do presses on the Hammer Strength machine, the only presses I do anymore, and laterals as gopro recommended.

**T_man** · 04-07-2009, 12:35 PM

Thanks built thats what I was looking for! I know the different heads of delts but was just asking for personal experiences working the shoulders for something that worked. And I'm excited I'm ready to go.
Never knew arnies worked the side delts that much, I would have thought db pressed would work the sides the most due to the positioning and heavy load

**T_man** · 04-12-2009, 08:52 AM

Something like that is what I'm aiming for.

They aint to big but they're like round and shaped, unlike many bb'ers who have chunky shoulders, rather than that one I'm looking for.

More iso or compound lifts??

**Built** · 04-12-2009, 11:56 AM

The "chunky" shoulder look you mention is from AAS use. When you see large, baseball-shaped delts is usually the tip off; all those androgen receptors... it's very unusual to see this kind of shape on an unassisted lifter.

**T_man** · 04-12-2009, 01:06 PM

So if I keep it natural my shoulders will end up looking like the pic?

**Built** · 04-12-2009, 01:16 PM

Your shoulders will look like your genetics, training and diet dictate.

I'm waffling around the word "yes", okay?

**T_man** · 04-12-2009, 01:49 PM

Well atm it would be no. Last 4 days ate like shit because I've been out on the piss twice hehe. Right now I'm recovering from last night's damage... making up for the 2-3 months I won't drink due to my final exams and such

Do you drink built?? and if you do, what do you do to minimise muscle loss? I drink like a pint of milk or a protein shake before I sleep and one when I wake up

**Built** · 04-12-2009, 01:56 PM

I'm not a drinker. It's never been my drug. Don't like the taste, don't like the effect.

I'm not a teetotaler - somebody pours me a glass of white wine, I'll have a sip, but I usually look for someone's glass into which I can surreptitiously pour the remainder of the glass.

Now CHOCOLATE... <sigh> THERE's a drug!

**T_man** · 04-12-2009, 02:35 PM

well I'm a teenager. it's what we do besides sleep

**Gazhole** · 04-12-2009, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by T_man

what do you do to minimise muscle loss?

Don't drink enough to get drunk.

Make sure you eat something before you drink, and after you drink. As well as meeting your requirements for the day.

Get plenty of vitamins and minerals to aid break down of alcohol.

Drink infrequently.

**Built** · 04-12-2009, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by T_man

well I'm a teenager. it's what we do besides sleep

I never did. Wasn't my thing.

**Rubes11** · 04-13-2009, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Don't drink enough to get drunk.

Make sure you eat something before you drink, and after you drink. As well as meeting your requirements for the day.

Get plenty of vitamins and minerals to aid break down of alcohol.

Drink infrequently.

good advice on the drinking also don't go out and do something stupid while your drinking stay somewhere safe.

**T_man** · 04-13-2009, 06:38 PM

Okay, points noted!

Built I did the hang cleans and arnie press SS with laterals today and boy did my shoulders recieve a blasting in only 6 sets!

I think either the rotation on the arnie or the hang clean technique was slightly bad and I had a slight ache in my left AC joint for a bit but it's gone.

The exercises also hit my real delts surprisingly because I could feel them fatigued.

But boy oh boy. I've never had such fun doing weights as much as hang cleans. With them you do exactly what you want to do with all the other exercises-just toss the weight around!!

**Built** · 04-13-2009, 10:58 PM

I know! Aren't they just SO much fun! I freaking LOVE that about the Oly lifts.

Glad you liked 'em. Your RC should have been okay with the Arnies - just watch yourself in the mirror - the dumbbells should each trace out half an oval.

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