Thread: True/False regarding Arnold shoulder presses

Arnold presses are good for periodization and getting a full range of motion. Personally, I believe it's better to do both an alternate bi weekly to receive optimal benefits and keep your body guessing.

They are an Overhead Press alternative, much like Floor Press is to Bench Press. Thats pretty much it i think.

Yep i agree with c6z06. Arnold presses gets more definition in your shoulders because of the range of motion involved. Presses both military and DB gets them pumped. By cycling through different exercises,you keep our delts guessing. Say hello to iron pumped round shoulders then haha.
Cheers to all!

Originally Posted by TitanUnleashed

Yep i agree with c6z06. Arnold presses gets more definition in your shoulders because of the range of motion involved. Presses both military and DB gets them pumped. By cycling through different exercises,you keep our delts guessing. Say hello to iron pumped round shoulders then haha.
Cheers to all!

1 - You can't define a particular muscle with a particular exercise. Definition is a by-product of low bodyfat, which is achieved through diet management.

2 - The pump is un-important, its just blood - not progress.

3 - Welcome to IronMag

Originally Posted by bigsahm21

I hear they're only useful for people with rotator cuff problems because it's easier on the RC, but for standard hypertrophy/other training purposes, you're better off doing standard DB presses or military presses.

Is this true? Or do Arnold's stimulate some other delt muscle/provide some other function (program variety, etc.)?

Actually, I would say if you have a RC pathology you may be better off going with something like a neutral grip or a press more in the scapular plane as the active internal rotation during the press (flexion) moves the greater tubercle into closer proximity under the subacromial space, leaving you more likely to compress the supraspinatus tendon or the subacromial bursa.

patrick

Originally Posted by P-funk

Actually, I would say if you have a RC pathology you may be better off going with something like a neutral grip or a press more in the scapular plane as the active internal rotation during the press (flexion) moves the greater tubercle into closer proximity under the subacromial space, leaving you more likely to compress the supraspinatus tendon or the subacromial bursa.

patrick

WOW....can you please elucidate that in plain English....

Originally Posted by the7zen

WOW....can you please elucidate that in plain English....

The supraspinatus attaches to the greater tubercle of the humerus. The greater tubercle gets its name because it is bigger than the lesser tubercle.

Look at this picture and it might help:



There are a few different factors that will determine how much space under the acromion process you have to move. Obviously, with the greater tubercle being bigger, it will further limit that space - creating more of a likelihood for impingement (subacromial) to occur.

The greater tubercle is moved further under that space when we place the shoulder into internal rotation. You may realize this if you try and raise your arm out to the side or overhead with it internal rotation. Obviously, you cannot raise it as high in this position, as you can if the arm were placed in external rotation. This is because external rotation moves the greater tubercle a little more "out of the way" and allows for movement to take place.

So pressing while moving into internal rotation (like the arnold press) may exacerbate this problem (RC pathologies) and give you some pain. This is another reason why I don't think that upper right rows or behind the neck presses are good to do. It comes down to how the shoulder moves and functions.

patrick

Originally Posted by P-funk

The supraspinatus attaches to the greater tubercle of the humerus. The greater tubercle gets its name because it is bigger than the lesser tubercle.

Look at this picture and it might help:



There are a few different factors that will determine how much space under the acromion process you have to move. Obviously, with the greater tubercle being bigger, it will further limit that space - creating more of a likelihood for impingement (subacromial) to occur.

The greater tubercle is moved further under that space when we place the shoulder into internal rotation. You may realize this if you try and raise your arm out to the side or overhead with it internal rotation. Obviously, you cannot raise it as high in this position, as you can if the arm were placed in external rotation. This is because external rotation moves the greater tubercle a little more "out of the way" and allows for movement to take place.

So pressing while moving into internal rotation (like the arnold press) may exacerbate this problem (RC pathologies) and give you some pain. This is another reason why I don't think that upper right rows or behind the neck presses are good to do. It comes down to how the shoulder moves and functions.

patrick

Keeping all this in mind, do you think Arnolds are a good movement? Or is the risk not worth the reward?

Thanks much for explaining this P-funk.

Originally Posted by Moondogg

Keeping all this in mind, do you think Arnolds are a good movement? Or is the risk not worth the reward?

I don't use them because they don't make my shoulders feel good. I have never had a client do them just because I would rather do other things.

patrick

Originally Posted by Gazhole

1 - You can't define a particular muscle with a particular exercise. Definition is a by-product of low bodyfat, which is achieved through diet management.

2 - The pump is un-important, its just blood - not progress.

3 - Welcome to IronMag

Yes, but making a muscle grow in certain ways, emphasising certain muscles can lead to a more "toned" look. It might not be toned but it looks more toned.

Originally Posted by T_man

Yes, but making a muscle grow in certain ways, emphasising certain muscles can lead to a more "toned" look. It might not be toned but it looks more toned.

Bigger muscles = bigger muscles.

Less bodyfat = more toned muscles.

I've never noticed any extra definition from making a muscle bigger, it just looks bigger, and therefore better. Same as being more ripped makes you look bigger than your weight. Perhaps this is what you're describing.

If certain muscles are bigger in proportion to others, then that can lead to a certain overall aesthetic, but it still wont actually make that area any more defined, thats the point im getting across.

Originally Posted by P-funk

The supraspinatus attaches to the greater tubercle of the humerus. The greater tubercle gets its name because it is bigger than the lesser tubercle.

Look at this picture and it might help:



There are a few different factors that will determine how much space under the acromion process you have to move. Obviously, with the greater tubercle being bigger, it will further limit that space - creating more of a likelihood for impingement (subacromial) to occur.

The greater tubercle is moved further under that space when we place the shoulder into internal rotation. You may realize this if you try and raise your arm out to the side or overhead with it internal rotation. Obviously, you cannot raise it as high in this position, as you can if the arm were placed in external rotation. This is because external rotation moves the greater tubercle a little more "out of the way" and allows for movement to take place.

So pressing while moving into internal rotation (like the arnold press) may exacerbate this problem (RC pathologies) and give you some pain. This is another reason why I don't think that upper right rows or behind the neck presses are good to do. It comes down to how the shoulder moves and functions.

patrick

i love how you explain everything but every time i learn something from you , and use it to inform people i help i always have to find a way to explain it in normal English

last time i used a few of the words you said i got this look with this sound "durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr what"

well when it grows in a certain way it can seem toned. For example I have some 14-15% bf on my bulk, but my shoulders seem toned because I've been doing laterals and so the muscle has been sticking out. however they are not toned according to your definition because there's still bf on them, although they look toned. If I had not been goin those laterals, they would look like they used to, and they would seem untoned under the same bf. Infact I've put on bf and my shoulders have gotten more "toned" lol.
Catch my drift?

Originally Posted by Ngordyn

i love how you explain everything but every time i learn something from you , and use it to inform people i help i always have to find a way to explain it in normal English

last time i used a few of the words you said i got this look with this sound "durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr what"

Finding a way to explain stuff in English is critical. When I educate my clients, I try and use a lot of analogies that they can understand and really try and break things down. Also, there is a lot of re-enforcement in having them go through the movement (IE abduction with internal rotation) and see how it feels to be restricted in that movement and explain to them why it is happening.

patrick

Originally Posted by P-funk

Finding a way to explain stuff in English is critical. When I educate my clients, I try and use a lot of analogies that they can understand and really try and break things down. Also, there is a lot of re-enforcement in having them go through the movement (IE abduction with internal rotation) and see how it feels to be restricted in that movement and explain to them why it is happening.

patrick

thats a really good idea next time i might have to do that

i had a friend who started out a few months ago lifting for the first time ever so i had him use your K.I.S.S program but being as he is a guy, want more isolation took me 3 hours to explain why this is one of the best ways to start

now he believes as he has made tremendous gains lol

Originally Posted by T_man

well when it grows in a certain way it can seem toned. For example I have some 14-15% bf on my bulk, but my shoulders seem toned because I've been doing laterals and so the muscle has been sticking out. however they are not toned according to your definition because there's still bf on them, although they look toned. If I had not been goin those laterals, they would look like they used to, and they would seem untoned under the same bf. Infact I've put on bf and my shoulders have gotten more "toned" lol.
Catch my drift?

yes but your saying "grow in a certain way" the muscles just grow , but since they are getting bigger the definition crevaces get larger allowing the bf to get in there more showing the high points more ........imagine if you cut

Now this is really interesting. I've always used - and recommended - Arnies because they just feel like such a good movement, they always make my shoulders feel better after I do them.

To be fair though, I don't generally use them for heavy work - I use push-presses and Olympic bar corner presses for that. I use Arnies for 8-12 rep work.

Originally Posted by Built

Now this is really interesting. I've always used - and recommended - Arnies because they just feel like such a good movement, they always make my shoulders feel better after I do them.

To be fair though, I don't generally use them for heavy work - I use push-presses and Olympic bar corner presses for that. I use Arnies for 8-12 rep work.

Same, I think ill keep doing them unless I notice a problem. I enjoy them at the end of my workout.

Originally Posted by Ngordyn

thats a really good idea next time i might have to do that

i had a friend who started out a few months ago lifting for the first time ever so i had him use your K.I.S.S program but being as he is a guy, want more isolation took me 3 hours to explain why this is one of the best ways to start

now he believes as he has made tremendous gains lol

Right now im doing something based on the KISS program and making awesome strength + size gains, and i've been training for about 6 years, lol. Doing 3 exercises per session is a masterstroke.

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Right now im doing something based on the KISS program and making awesome strength + size gains, and i've been training for about 6 years, lol. Doing 3 exercises per session is a masterstroke.

ya im planning on using something along the lines for my cut over the next 3.5 months