If I wanted America to Fail

[Zaphod]

you mean letting the markets self-regulate. history has shown time and time again how well that works with recent events such as the BP Gulf oil spill and 2008 banking collapse being perfect examples of it's failure in reality.

government created the corporation and it's their responsibility to control them. self-regulation is purely delusion as history shows regulations were put in place because they were needed. does the love canal or erin brockovich ring a bell to anyone.

if self-regulation was ever going to work it surely wouldn't be in the US. the past 40 years shows how much US large firms care about american citizens, as stagnant wages are proof positive of this disconnect. but of course there was also lots of help from the central bank due to inflation.

It isn't that industry won't self regulate. We just haven't waited long enough for it to happen. Yeah. That's it.

 

[oufinny]

I'm all for regulation; it just needs to make sense and not stop growth. You can protect workers, the environment, all with regulations that don't make new investment or organic growth a non-starter. Also, federal and state regs that don't align at all does nothing to help the situation.

 

[myCATpowerlifts]

Obama is a buffoon who is barely qualified to run a McDonalds. The only reason he's president is because he's black and can read a teleprompter well.

Can you please name one nation that taxed itself into prosperity? If you can justify discrimination against those who make more money where does your discrimination have limits? Tax men more than women? Tax fat people more? Tax white people more?

And you could do better?

Look, at this point, it's not about philosophy. It's not about who should be taxed more or less or whatever.

It's about needing the money NOW and where are we going to get it?

Sink or float?

 

[LAM]

Obama is a buffoon who is barely qualified to run a McDonalds. The only reason he's president is because he's black and can read a teleprompter well.

Can you please name one nation that taxed itself into prosperity? If you can justify discrimination against those who make more money where does your discrimination have limits? Tax men more than women? Tax fat people more? Tax white people more?

the US has the lowest taxes on people and large firms yet we are the most in debt and spending hasn't increased that much (as a percentage of GDP) in the past 40-50 years..surely no correlation there

 

[DOMS]

the US has the lowest taxes on people and large firms yet we are the most in debt and spending hasn't increased that much (as a percentage of GDP) in the past 40-50 years..surely no correlation there

Source. Another.

Your statement is factually incorrect. Having said that, if you're inferring that taxes need to increase, I completely agree that they do; especially among the upper class.

 

[oufinny]

No argument there DOMS. If you are going to expand the tax base to include the poorer population, it has to go up on the rich. It won't solve the debt problem completely but it is a start.

 

[DOMS]

No argument there DOMS. If you are going to expand the tax base to include the poorer population, it has to go up on the rich. It won't solve the debt problem completely but it is a start.

The best thing we could do to fix the current debt crisis is to cut spending. I know, that just crazy talk.

 

[IronAddict]

you mean letting the markets self-regulate. history has shown time and time again how well that works with recent events such as the BP Gulf oil spill and 2008 banking collapse being perfect examples of it's failure in reality.

government created the corporation and it's their responsibility to control them. self-regulation is purely delusion as history shows regulations were put in place because they were needed. does the love canal or erin brockovich ring a bell to anyone.

if self-regulation was ever going to work it surely wouldn't be in the US. the past 40 years shows how much US large firms care about american citizens, as stagnant wages are proof positive of this disconnect. but of course there was also lots of help from the central bank due to inflation.

No, I was just being facetious and was commenting about the OP, because there's always a flipside to the stuff they spew. Getting rid of the EPA and all regulations is the Repulican stance, and that BP spill is a perfect example.

 

[secdrl]

The best thing we could do to fix the current debt crisis is to cut spending. I know, that just crazy talk.

What an incredibly offensive and foolish thing to say. Cut spending? You must've lost your mind.

Sincerely,

Any Democrat

 

[hoyle21]

What an incredibly offensive and foolish thing to say. Cut spending? You must've lost your mind.

Sincerely,

Any Democrat

A lot of people would argue the easiest and fastest place to save money would be in defense. Republicans refuse to go there. Both sides placate to their bases, and that ends up fucking is all.

 

[secdrl]

A lot of people would argue the easiest and fastest place to save money would be in defense. Republicans refuse to go there. Both sides placate to their bases, and that ends up fucking is all.

Defense should be off the table, IMO. To compromise National Security, but leave social programs untouched is insane.

 

[hoyle21]

And I absolutely disagree and side with Ron Paul on that topic. We have troops in over 140 different countries.


Bring them home, set'em on the boarder, let them defend our country.

 

[LAM]

What an incredibly offensive and foolish thing to say. Cut spending? You must've lost your mind.

Sincerely,

Any Democrat

you might want to check the historical records...there is no such thing as a fiscally responsible neo-conservative....

in the last 40 years almost all the debt has occurred under republican administrations

Roosevelt (R) 1901-1909
Taft (R) 1909-1913
Wilson (D) 1913-1921
Harding (R) 1921-1923
Coolidge (R) 1923-1929
Hoover (R) 1929-1933
Roosevelt (D) 1933-1945
Truman (D) 1945-1953
Eisenhower (R) 1953-1961
Kennedy (D) 1961-1963
Johnson (D) 1963-1969
Nixon(R) 1969-1974
Ford(R) 1974-1977
Carter(D) 1977-1981
Reagan(R) 1981-1989
GHB(R) 1989-1993
Clinton(D) 1993-2001
GWB(R) 2001-2009
Obama(D) 2009-

column G

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/hist07z1.xls

 

[LAM]

the increase in debt as a percentage of GDP has increased:

+21% Under Reagan

+13% under GHWB

-10% under Clinton

+28.8% under GWB

+10% under Obama

 

[LAM]

and why is it that every major downturn in labors share of the national income occurs when republicans are in the white house?

Reagan(R) 1981-1989
GHB(R) 1989-1993
Clinton(D) 1993-2001
GWB(R) 2001-2009
Obama(D) 2009-

Nonfarm Business Sector: Labor Share (PRS85006173) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

 

[DOMS]

the increase in debt as a percentage of GDP has increased:

+21% Under Reagan

+13% under GHWB

-10% under Clinton

+28.8% under GWB

+10% under Obama

Source. Another.

Increase in debt/GDP

2009–2011: 15.4%

 

[LAM]

Source. Another.

Increase in debt/GDP

2009–2011: 15.4%

and the majority of that debt increase is a direct result of reduced tax revenues from the recession that Bush created from financial deregulation, not from legislation passed since the end of 2009.

even with that high number of 15.4% what are the totals since the 80's?

GOP = 62.8% increase
Dems = 5.4% increase

 

[irish_2003]

it's Lam's fault

 

[M4A3]

A lot of people would argue the easiest and fastest place to save money would be in defense. Republicans refuse to go there. Both sides placate to their bases, and that ends up fucking is all.

And I absolutely disagree and side with Ron Paul on that topic. We have troops in over 140 different countries.


Bring them home, set'em on the boarder, let them defend our country.

We actually get a tangible benefit with defense spending. We get no benefit for giving money to pookie and her four crack babies.

Ron paul is a tard of the highest order. If we withdrew from the world, we'd lose the majority of our power and influence in the world. Other nations would quickly fill in that power vacuum, and America would become weak and vulnerable. Our interests such as the free flow of oil and commerce would be threatened. What you and Paul are advocating is complete insanity and not an option unless you are intentionally trying to weaken America.

The bad guys won't stop being bad if we "just leave them alone". I promise you.

 

[LAM]

We actually get a tangible benefit with defense spending. We get no benefit for giving money to pookie and her four crack babies.

direct money transfers from TANF account for a whopping 20B a year, that number hasn't changed since the welfare reform act of 1996 even once adjusted for inflation...that's what's caused the 15T deficit for sure

 

[Swiper]

We actually get a tangible benefit with defense spending. We get no benefit for giving money to pookie and her four crack babies.

Ron paul is a tard of the highest order. If we withdrew from the world, we'd lose the majority of our power and influence in the world. Other nations would quickly fill in that power vacuum, and America would become weak and vulnerable. Our interests such as the free flow of oil and commerce would be threatened. What you and Paul are advocating is complete insanity and not an option unless you are intentionally trying to weaken America.

The bad guys won't stop being bad if we "just leave them alone". I promise you.

Who's going to attack us if we pull out of other countries and have out troops stationed here? You remember what we did to Japan when they attacked us? An attack on us is highly unlikely.

Most of The "bad boys" are a result of our foreign policy. As the CIA calls it, blow-back.

Why do you feel we need to police the world?

 

[Swiper]

and the majority of that debt increase is a direct result of reduced tax revenues from the recession that Bush created from financial deregulation, not from legislation passed since the end of 2009.

even with that high number of 15.4% what are the totals since the 80's?

GOP = 62.8% increase
Dems = 5.4% increase

Fact: Obama has added 5 trillion to the national debt since he took office.

 

[M4A3]

Who's going to attack us if we pull out of other countries and have out troops stationed here? You remember what we did to Japan when they attacked us? An attack on us is highly unlikely.

Most of The "bad boys" are a result of our foreign policy. As the CIA calls it, blow-back.

Why do you feel we need to police the world?

You live in fantasy land. That's ok nancy. Rough men are ready to do violence on your behalf. Sleep peacibly sheep.

The fact that this forum is filed with Paulbots and commies makes me want to puke.

 

[Swiper]

You live in fantasy land. That's ok nancy. Rough men are ready to do violence on your behalf. Sleep peacibly sheep.

The fact that this forum is filed with Paulbots and commies makes me want to puke.

Thanks for answering the questions. Lol

 

[LAM]

Fact: Obama has added 5 trillion to the national debt since he took office.

Fact: and the majority is not from spending it's from reduced tax revenues. the GOP hasn't allowed any of the major legislation proposed by the Dems get passed.

as with anything that is complex in nature, the devil is in the details....

The Truth About Who's Responsible For The Explosion In Government Spending - Business Insider

 

[Swiper]

Fact: and the majority is not from spending it's from reduced tax revenues. the GOP hasn't allowed any of the major legislation proposed by the Dems get passed.

as with anything that is complex in nature, the devil is in the details....

The Truth About Who's Responsible For The Explosion In Government Spending - Business Insider

Not from spending? Lol. if there is less revenue then you cut spending, not increase taxes. But I know you disagree because you're a champion for big bloated over powering government.

Obama singed the bush tax cut extension. He could have let them expire. He chose not to.

The dems had control of both houses for two years. They could have passed anything they wanted.

 

[irish_2003]

has anyone else noticed that the last few months now of Barry Soetoro's campaign and press conferences of bullshit he spews that we're not seeing Pelosi, Reid, or Waxman? are they even buying the bullshit anymore?

 

[Dale Mabry]

We actually get a tangible benefit with defense spending.

What tangible benefit did we get from Iraq and Afghanistan?

 

[colochine]

^ immigrants that want to kill us.

 

[troubador]

What tangible benefit did we get from Iraq and Afghanistan?

It's impossible for military spending to not protect are freedom. I know because it's taboo to question it.

Commie!!