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    Quote Originally Posted by supperfly1977 View Post
    300 dollars to get started sounds kind of high. All I need to get someone started is lab work that is less than a year old and general physical. the only fee we have is 35 for the doctor to give the script and over look your labs and a shipping fee can be 25 to 35 25 for two day and 35 for overnight. Can get 3 bottles of test cyp and 2 of deca every three months. the deca comes in 200mg and 300mg.

    Supperfly...can you PM where your at. I just need trt. I was 26 and had a 131 test level( low as fck ). Doc slapped me on trt without telling me anything of sides etc...The only thing that they got right, was the test cyp. Was dx with severe gonad... The kicker was it was one shot a month? So, I went to a uro and he upped it to EOW. 200 mg. I have to drive to the office to get injected, and I carry it with me. The last 18 months I have tried calling docs, went to two endos, and stick to EOW! Plus my blood work shows the up and down spikes, remember I am in my 20s. 131, 714, 231, 366....To top this off my uro even said it looks like I had some atrophy( no HCG ). Been doing this for 18 months. The endo believes being on trt @ 200 and having a 300 level is normal? It's fckin nuts....300 without is nothing being in my 20s. My pit. gland is fine...my FSH is fine. My cholesterol and everything is fine. I did suffer concussions and played with andro when I was younger- when it was legal on shelves on most health stores- So it's kind of gettin written as those are the factors why. I talked to another doc on the side, he said an endo thinking 300 was normal for my age, that I need to find another one. However, it's easy for a doc to say this and not prescribe, but when I talk to the endos, they are all the same. In their guidelines- 300- 1080 is normal.

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    TRT clinics

    300-1080 is "normal" from a blood lab, if u feel like crap, and ur life sucks from these levels then 300 is NOT normal for U!!!




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    Quote Originally Posted by j2048b View Post
    300-1080 is "normal" from a blood lab, if u feel like crap, and ur life sucks from these levels then 300 is NOT normal for U!!!




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    Just don't know of a descent TRT clinic/doc. Heck insurance covers test, I was dxed with severe gonad. Fck I just had an inj. today. Had to bring the cyp to the docs, wait 30 mins, then another 10 in back, then 20 mins ride home. Only way they do sh1T, EOW 200mg cyp. No HCG, have left testicular atrophy( small, but uro noticed ). Seen two endos, no E2 levels ever checked. Right now I'd take 200mg every ten days with hcg @ home. Or...make up something stupid to get a dx code and have a hot nurse come out and inj me...lol. Guys it's been like this for almost 2 years! I am in my 20s.... I stopped growing @ 17. So I might have had low T for awhile, or when monkeying around with andro when legal on shelves. I am 5ft.8 @ 202. Around 15% b/f. No adema or water with test, no swelling.
    Last edited by Dcrazy; 04-10-2013 at 01:38 AM.

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    I'm on 150mg EW and that puts me around 550....not really where I wanted to be either but at least at that level my dick stays hard. Its hard to find an endo that will give you like 200mg EW. They are very conservative and you have to stay on the ball with them. Ask questions and make sure you voice your opinion and give reasons why. If they don't want to hear you then find another Dr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcrazy View Post
    Just don't know of a descent TRT clinic/doc. Heck insurance covers test, I was dxed with severe gonad. Fck I just had an inj. today. Had to bring the cyp to the docs, wait 30 mins, then another 10 in back, then 20 mins ride home. Only way they do sh1T, EOW 200mg cyp. No HCG, have left testicular atrophy( small, but uro noticed ). Seen two endos, no E2 levels ever checked. Right now I'd take 200mg every ten days with hcg @ home. Or...make up something stupid to get a dx code and have a hot nurse come out and inj me...lol. Guys it's been like this for almost 2 years!
    Can't you get your doc to let you pin yourself? You really need to pin at least every 7 days if not every 3.5 days. At least try to pin 100mg every 7 days for a better experience.

    I'd try to get the doc to turn me loose and hardly ever do bw with them, I'd just get my script from them and get HCG from somewhere else (just check the HCG thread), pin myself 50mg every 3.5 days and check my own bw with privatemdlabs, including sensitive assay E2, it's crazy to put up with that crappy of care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanMan60563 View Post
    I'm on 150mg EW and that puts me around 550....not really where I wanted to be either but at least at that level my dick stays hard. Its hard to find an endo that will give you like 200mg EW. They are very conservative and you have to stay on the ball with them. Ask questions and make sure you voice your opinion and give reasons why. If they don't want to hear you then find another Dr.
    Well I started at 131- which shocked me. Then I think 200s, then 714, then 366...see the yo yo effect in blood work? Ok, so one time I hit what would be normal for my age, that was after being on it for awhile, then down 366. I honestly would do 150 EW. I mean can it help in the gym, sure....However, will 150 bulk like a cycle, no. However, I was open to 150. In the endo guidelines 300 is normal, which we all know is B.S unless your 60. However, with atrophy to top it off. I mean it's small atrophy but enough for me to notice a lil and the uro who even prescribes it. His wording is 200 EOW is a base dose. Well, Endos agree..atleast my experience. To expect me to drive is nuts after awhile. I mean I got the dx of severe gonad, the up and down blood work, minor atrophy, and me not feeling like I probably should. I don't know what else one needs to get EW and HCG. The facts are there.

    However, be glad you got a workable one that goes to 150mg EW. Here is a small tip....go..I don't know the rules, They sell coupons for ED where you get some for free, that might help with some of your problems. I would like to say where, it's simple, but idk the rules on this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1693 View Post
    Can't you get your doc to let you pin yourself? You really need to pin at least every 7 days if not every 3.5 days. At least try to pin 100mg every 7 days for a better experience.

    I'd try to get the doc to turn me loose and hardly ever do bw with them, I'd just get my script from them and get HCG from somewhere else (just check the HCG thread), pin myself 50mg every 3.5 days and check my own bw with privatemdlabs, including sensitive assay E2, it's crazy to put up with that crappy of care.
    Nope won't show me or let me pin myself. I hold onto the cyp, transport it there, get inj, bring it home. I went back and fourth with the guy to a point, I thought it could be a blow out right in his office one time. That's all done with now, on my last report, he transcribed I was a nice young man lol. I have done blood work with diff labs, with the script, all go on same test scale for blood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcrazy View Post
    Just don't know of a descent TRT clinic/doc. Heck insurance covers test, I was dxed with severe gonad. Fck I just had an inj. today. Had to bring the cyp to the docs, wait 30 mins, then another 10 in back, then 20 mins ride home. Only way they do sh1T, EOW 200mg cyp. No HCG, have left testicular atrophy( small, but uro noticed ). Seen two endos, no E2 levels ever checked. Right now I'd take 200mg every ten days with hcg @ home. Or...make up something stupid to get a dx code and have a hot nurse come out and inj me...lol. Guys it's been like this for almost 2 years! I am in my 20s.... I stopped growing @ 17. So I might have had low T for awhile, or when monkeying around with andro when legal on shelves. I am 5ft.8 @ 202. Around 15% b/f. No adema or water with test, no swelling.
    See if they will pin u every week of 100 mlg,

    And if u need hcg and an ai, check out research chemical web sites on google, ull find what u need!




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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcrazy View Post
    Nope won't show me or let me pin myself. I hold onto the cyp, transport it there, get inj, bring it home. I went back and fourth with the guy to a point, I thought it could be a blow out right in his office one time. That's all done with now, on my last report, he transcribed I was a nice young man lol. I have done blood work with diff labs, with the script, all go on same test scale for blood.
    Hah, where there's a will.........maybe get another vial and transfer your test to it and get some adequate oil to put in the present vial....your doc will then be pinning you with only oil....you can learn to pin from youtube and then pin once or twice a week, your choice, many places to get HCG too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcrazy View Post
    Nope won't show me or let me pin myself. I hold onto the cyp, transport it there, get inj, bring it home. I went back and fourth with the guy to a point, I thought it could be a blow out right in his office one time. That's all done with now, on my last report, he transcribed I was a nice young man lol. I have done blood work with diff labs, with the script, all go on same test scale for blood.
    Ask if his nurse staff can train you to pin yourself. I just flat out told my doctor I cant make time to come up there just to be given my meds. I think the doctor made me come in 3 times to show I could do it myself....then I was let loose. I never gone back in for that again. I just get refills and pin 100mg E5D which comes out to 150mg EW but split in a way that keeps my levels stable. If I were in your shoes I'd keep looking for a new doctor and when you meet them explain your expectations up front.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big jay 2424 View Post
    does anyone know of a HRT clinic in michigan that has a reasonable price
    Dr John in Lansing.. allthingsmale

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    is superfly still around? like to know where he is out of too

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanMan60563 View Post
    Ask if his nurse staff can train you to pin yourself. I just flat out told my doctor I cant make time to come up there just to be given my meds. I think the doctor made me come in 3 times to show I could do it myself....then I was let loose. I never gone back in for that again. I just get refills and pin 100mg E5D which comes out to 150mg EW but split in a way that keeps my levels stable. If I were in your shoes I'd keep looking for a new doctor and when you meet them explain your expectations up front.
    Thought I'd give an update. A small one. Well I talked to an endo, just to be refered to another endo..when I brought up left testicular atrophy and HCG. So guys kind of need advice. Took a shot of 200mg( yes still driving to the uro office every other week ), the same day I seen the Endo. She is a 30 min drive. I just layed it out, and said I really don't care if my test comes back 900 or 300..my main concern is how feel, getting a shot done every week, and hcg+ no in office shot visits. I gave her previous tests, showing 131, 712, 208.....She checked the boys downstairs, and walla as I had been preaching, left testicular atrophy. My uro noted small atrophy as well. So she ordered a test for me to take, well two of them. One right after shot checking free and total test, plus blood panel, etc etc. The second test, near the end of my 14 days and just checking total and free test, no other blood panels.

    Test 1: I did 32 hours after 200mg shot, fasted, and 4 hours after I got up. Test came in at 977. So I didn't do anything to alter the test, allowing it to be the truest/highest( see how I took it ). I have to take test number 2, within a week. Two things I am afraid of, and need advice:
    - She will see the test( yes even though at the peakest hours after a shot ) and say, yeah EOW is good.- That is my number 1 concern.
    Second concern- She said that HCG was used after test, not during. She said because there is no natty test, that the HCG would have no receptors. Well, there is some natty T. Isn't that free test....you have to have some free test in you, so hence there has to be receptors for the hcg to bind to. So for my second test, I was thinking...I could either take it how I did before- of course levels will be lower b/c it's about 10-11 days after shot v.s 30 hrs, fasted, after REM sleep, or....... I could drink like a fish, stay up, eat carbs, and then take the test lol- I think those lower levels. I say this b/c my fear is she will say no HCG, and just say keep doing what your doing- which involves driving, etc. She is open for me to do it at home, and she goes by both ACCE and the endo society guidelines, I brought up ACCE and she said which ever is more current- the ACCE is. Guys I know it sounds like too much thought, but need advice or opinions. It's been 2 years now, tired of driving to the office. Also, do to the nature of my future employment after a masters, I don't wanna gut busted for doing " Self Trt ."- Trust me, I thought about it though. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcrazy View Post
    Thought I'd give an update. A small one. Well I talked to an endo, just to be refered to another endo..when I brought up left testicular atrophy and HCG. So guys kind of need advice. Took a shot of 200mg( yes still driving to the uro office every other week ), the same day I seen the Endo. She is a 30 min drive. I just layed it out, and said I really don't care if my test comes back 900 or 300..my main concern is how feel, getting a shot done every week, and hcg+ no in office shot visits. I gave her previous tests, showing 131, 712, 208.....She checked the boys downstairs, and walla as I had been preaching, left testicular atrophy. My uro noted small atrophy as well. So she ordered a test for me to take, well two of them. One right after shot checking free and total test, plus blood panel, etc etc. The second test, near the end of my 14 days and just checking total and free test, no other blood panels.

    Test 1: I did 32 hours after 200mg shot, fasted, and 4 hours after I got up. Test came in at 977. So I didn't do anything to alter the test, allowing it to be the truest/highest( see how I took it ). I have to take test number 2, within a week. Two things I am afraid of, and need advice:
    - She will see the test( yes even though at the peakest hours after a shot ) and say, yeah EOW is good.- That is my number 1 concern.
    Second concern- She said that HCG was used after test, not during. She said because there is no natty test, that the HCG would have no receptors. Well, there is some natty T. Isn't that free test....you have to have some free test in you, so hence there has to be receptors for the hcg to bind to. So for my second test, I was thinking...I could either take it how I did before- of course levels will be lower b/c it's about 10-11 days after shot v.s 30 hrs, fasted, after REM sleep, or....... I could drink like a fish, stay up, eat carbs, and then take the test lol- I think those lower levels. I say this b/c my fear is she will say no HCG, and just say keep doing what your doing- which involves driving, etc. She is open for me to do it at home, and she goes by both ACCE and the endo society guidelines, I brought up ACCE and she said which ever is more current- the ACCE is. Guys I know it sounds like too much thought, but need advice or opinions. It's been 2 years now, tired of driving to the office. Also, do to the nature of my future employment after a masters, I don't wanna gut busted for doing " Self Trt ."- Trust me, I thought about it though. Thanks.
    Its not hard to find an endo to let you do the shots at home. I didn't even have to ask mine. I had to pretty much tell my general doc that I wouldn't be able to do it unless I could do it at home and androgel was no longer an option. Granted his protocol sucked and failed, but when I was told by him to see an endo the endo didn't mention anything other than me doing the shots on my own at home. You can tell them anything...work schedule makes it too difficult to make frequent appointments....tell them you have experience etc...

    Anyways as for your test if you take labs 2 days post injection and its 977 it will be probably be in the 200's come day 14. That is not ok, and when I was on 200mg every 2 weeks I could feel the hormone changes....I had more anxiety...I had acne....basically it created side effects! I've done so many labs and I can tell you Testosterone Cypionate in me is SUPER stable levels when given every 5 days. My levels 2 days post injection are only like 25-50 higher than the day I take my next injection. That is after 6 weeks of being on a given dose.

    So I would make her see your levels drop below normal by the end of the 2 weeks...then I would tell her you can feel the hormone change and it causes side effects...Ask her if you can do at home injections and do them more frequently to avoid peaks and valleys. Its not an unreasonable request. You're not asking for any huge amount of test either. Even if you split it up 100mg a week that is better than the 200mg every 2 weeks. Furthermore my old dose of 150mg every 5 days comes to 900mg per month and my test is around 525-550 at any given time.

    All I can say is provide her with a case. Ask to do at home injections...tell her you want to do labs to see if your idea works for you because ultimately it will it did wonders for me.

    As for your ball sizes most people don't have same sized balls. One of mine is smaller than the other and always has been. HCG might help make them larger but probably still not same sized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanMan60563 View Post
    Its not hard to find an endo to let you do the shots at home. I didn't even have to ask mine. I had to pretty much tell my general doc that I wouldn't be able to do it unless I could do it at home and androgel was no longer an option. Granted his protocol sucked and failed, but when I was told by him to see an endo the endo didn't mention anything other than me doing the shots on my own at home. You can tell them anything...work schedule makes it too difficult to make frequent appointments....tell them you have experience etc...

    Anyways as for your test if you take labs 2 days post injection and its 977 it will be probably be in the 200's come day 14. That is not ok, and when I was on 200mg every 2 weeks I could feel the hormone changes....I had more anxiety...I had acne....basically it created side effects! I've done so many labs and I can tell you Testosterone Cypionate in me is SUPER stable levels when given every 5 days. My levels 2 days post injection are only like 25-50 higher than the day I take my next injection. That is after 6 weeks of being on a given dose.

    So I would make her see your levels drop below normal by the end of the 2 weeks...then I would tell her you can feel the hormone change and it causes side effects...Ask her if you can do at home injections and do them more frequently to avoid peaks and valleys. Its not an unreasonable request. You're not asking for any huge amount of test either. Even if you split it up 100mg a week that is better than the 200mg every 2 weeks. Furthermore my old dose of 150mg every 5 days comes to 900mg per month and my test is around 525-550 at any given time.

    All I can say is provide her with a case. Ask to do at home injections...tell her you want to do labs to see if your idea works for you because ultimately it will it did wonders for me.

    As for your ball sizes most people don't have same sized balls. One of mine is smaller than the other and always has been. HCG might help make them larger but probably still not same sized.
    Hey thanks man. You have been great help. Acne I know exactly what you mean, it' not crazy acne like a bunch of it, more cyst like here and there. I look this up and swinging hormone changes can cause that. My second test I am taking 11 days out, not 14 days AKA not the full two weeks. It's because of my schedule, so I don't know how low they will drop. I just don't want her to go, yeah EOW is good. However the test won't probably be taken as cleanly as the first one, 977. However, I told her even 140-150 EW is prob better. 100 mg would just be a starting point again. It's just two years of this.

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