531 Starting Strength Westside Bill Starr's 5x5 Blue Collar

[juggernaut]

Which is your favorite method and why?

I'm a huge fan in 531 and had a ton of success with it. It's really very basic, but the strength gains are truly incredible in a short amount of time. To do most of the shortcuts in the math, use the spreadsheet to figure out your percentages.

Rippetoe's Starting Strength is a great routine that I've used with great success with some of my skinny clients who want to bulk and gain some serious strength.

 

[Gazhole]

Pretty much agree with you.

5/3/1 has totally turned my training around. Jim Wendler has a customer for life from that simple program. I've also seen great results in a lot of people on that stripped back version of 5x5. Its so simple you just can't not progress on it.

Honourable mention goes to Westside simply for making you succeed through sheer badass alone. 1RMs every week will either kill you or make you.

 

[juggernaut]

The problem with Westside is that to a person that is new to powerlifting, it is kind of convulted-I know myself that when I started reading about it, a lot of it didnt make sense at first. It needed to be reread a few times, but now I see it's value in both strength and bodybuilding.

 

[Life]

I started with 5x5 and switched to 5/3/1. While I progressed on 5x5, it was no where near as fast as I progressed on 5/3/1. Love 5/3/1 but 1RM weeks kill me.

 

[Hell]

Looks like I found my new program...Ive been wanting something new...

Thanks!!

 

[juggernaut]

Looks like I found my new program...Ive been wanting something new...

Thanks!!

Hell I'll send you a great spreadsheet for the 531 that I use. It's very convenient to use and works well.

Here's the address for anyone who wants to use it: http://www.doosoft.com/cgi-bin/download.pl?file=531

 

[vindicated346]

531 has always worked great for me as well as doggcrapp

 

[Rodja]

DeFranco's Westside for Skinny Bastards v3

 

[juggernaut]

^Excellent read. I like the newer version too. Much more intricate and better explained.

 

[omerta2010]

Hell I'll send you a great spreadsheet for the 531 that I use. It's very convenient to use and works well.

Here's the address for anyone who wants to use it: http://www.doosoft.com/cgi-bin/download.pl?file=531

I really like this spreadsheet for tracking progress.

Thanks

 

[Rodja]

^Excellent read. I like the newer version too. Much more intricate and better explained.

Not sure why a link was thrown on it. I agree that the latest version is much better and more complete.

 

[juggernaut]

Not sure why a link was thrown on it. I agree that the latest version is much better and more complete.

I'm certain people wanted to see ver. 3 so I linked it.

 

[Rodja]

Westside for Skinny Bastards, Part III - DeFranco's TrainingI already linked the pdf, but if you like the prettier pictures with the same text, it's cool

 

[mggisforme]

yes definitely try 5/3/1 if you are looking for a new program. I got stronger so fast that after the second month I had to re-do all of my percentages and maxes... I was actually getting too strong too fast, for the program. So i did new maxes and things are still going great for me now going into month 5.... another program that has been getting a lot of good attention lately is chad smith's juggernaut training system.. he has an ebook out now. I may have to give that a try next

 

[Stull34]

When I first started training about 20 years ago I used 5x5 mostly, I think 5-3-1 is a great program for everything but the Deadlift, but thats just my opinion. I compete in Strongman and powerlifting, and I emply alot of principles of all the programs depending on what comp Im getting ready for, I do some of the westside stuff, some pyramiding, and some DC stuff, but mostly tailor it all around what has and has not worked, I usually program out in 8-12 week blasts. Those spreadsheets are great for beginning and lifters who need a set program!!

ST

 

[juggernaut]

Interesting. When I was prepping for a SM contest, I used a 3 day 531 specifically tailored to my needs-including DL. I saw a marked difference in my DL numbers on a continual basis. My fourth day of training was specifically geared towards events.
Stull, perhaps taking a whirl at Blue Collar, a methodology which employs throwing a ton of shit at you on a 3 day week + events training, might be more focused towards your style of training.

 

[Hench]

Jug, how effective do you think 531 would be for cutting? Im not talking major calorie deficit, maybe 300-500 below maint. per day.

 

[juggernaut]

If you decide to cut, especially on a program like 531, I'd seriously recommend carb cycling with high and low days, keeping the fat higher. You need the carbs and can center it around pre-workout as well as post workout. After that, keep the carbs lower and have protein and fat meals.
If you've been fat before, you might need to use a CKD (cyclic ketogenic diet) with a one and a half day carb up. Lyle McDonald wrote a great book (Ketogenic Diet) that is a great read.

 

[Rodja]

When I first started training about 20 years ago I used 5x5 mostly, I think 5-3-1 is a great program for everything but the Deadlift, but thats just my opinion. I compete in Strongman and powerlifting, and I emply alot of principles of all the programs depending on what comp Im getting ready for, I do some of the westside stuff, some pyramiding, and some DC stuff, but mostly tailor it all around what has and has not worked, I usually program out in 8-12 week blasts. Those spreadsheets are great for beginning and lifters who need a set program!!

ST

That's really odd because my deadlift is what improved the most with 5/3/1.

 

[Stull34]

one question is how long have you lifted? Were your DL #'s high to start with. I have never done well with higher reps on the DL, Im a soso puller, 630-650 right now regular DL, 700-720 trap bar. with the percentages it called for too many reps, which in turn wrecks my back, I had a microdiskectomy of my L4-L5 5 years ago. I think its a great program, jsut have known more than a few who had issues with the DL scheme. Juggernaut, I train 3 days a week during the , and a event day on the weekend, and have since 2000, this does seem to work well for me, but what I do might not work for some, I have spent years changing, writing down and adding to my program. I definately dont think its for everyone or its the best, jsut what I have found to be able to make continued progress.

ST

 

[juggernaut]

I've never gone higher than 5 reps on DLs-it's just retarded how drained you get if you attempt that kind of shit, even in Westside training on the rep day. it plain sucks.

 

[Stull34]

i agree 100% percent, I ususaully never pull over 2-3 reps on conventionals DL, I occasionally will go 5's for RDL, and rack pulls. We videotaped about 8 of us one night pulling 75% for 5 reps, even at that low of a weight its crazy how different your form looks from rep 1 to 5.

ST

 

[Rodja]

one question is how long have you lifted? Were your DL #'s high to start with. I have never done well with higher reps on the DL, Im a soso puller, 630-650 right now regular DL, 700-720 trap bar. with the percentages it called for too many reps, which in turn wrecks my back, I had a microdiskectomy of my L4-L5 5 years ago. I think its a great program, jsut have known more than a few who had issues with the DL scheme. Juggernaut, I train 3 days a week during the , and a event day on the weekend, and have since 2000, this does seem to work well for me, but what I do might not work for some, I have spent years changing, writing down and adding to my program. I definately dont think its for everyone or its the best, jsut what I have found to be able to make continued progress.

ST

When I started 5/3/1, I had about 8 years of lifting under my belt and had pulled 515 in the past at a weight just under 200. The highest I think I ever pulled rep wise on the program was 9 and that was an exception. Most people get really sloppy with their technique above 5 reps and usually struggle in the cardio department. I'm more oriented towards MMA than competing in PL'ing, so I have a higher level of cardio thn most.

When I added in Prowler sessions, my numbers took a bit of a dive for about a month, but I backed off on the extra work and made sure to include about 20-30 minutes of pre-hab. I also listened to my body and on the days where I really struggled with my deads, I didn't do any assistance work.

I should also add that I made gains with this program while losing about 15 lbs through the aforementioned Prowler and tightening the diet.

 

[juggernaut]

When I started 5/3/1, I had about 8 years of lifting under my belt and had pulled 515 in the past at a weight just under 200. The highest I think I ever pulled rep wise on the program was 9 and that was an exception. Most people get really sloppy with their technique above 5 reps and usually struggle in the cardio department. I'm more oriented towards MMA than competing in PL'ing, so I have a higher level of cardio thn most.

When I added in Prowler sessions, my numbers took a bit of a dive for about a month, but I backed off on the extra work and made sure to include about 20-30 minutes of pre-hab. I also listened to my body and on the days where I really struggled with my deads, I didn't do any assistance work.

I should also add that I made gains with this program while losing about 15 lbs through the aforementioned Prowler and tightening the diet.

Rodja, try doing a 20 rep squat routine with one day of 20 rep deadlifts. It's fucking awful.

 

[Marat]

with the percentages it called for too many reps, which in turn wrecks my back, I had a microdiskectomy of my L4-L5 5 years ago. I think its a great program, jsut have known more than a few who had issues with the DL scheme.

to paraphrase Wendler, 'do fewer reps'.

 

[Rodja]

Rodja, try doing a 20 rep squat routine with one day of 20 rep deadlifts. It's fucking awful.

Prowler suicides are far worse than 20 rep anything.

When I'm feeling really good, I'll do this routine for conditioning:
30M Prowler Push (low handles loaded with 140lbs)
3 tire flips (450lb tire)
30M Prowler Push (vertical bars)
x10

If I break 17:00, then it's a success, but I get a nasty case of Prowler flu when I do these and usually just lie on the pavement for about 15 minutes.

 

[juggernaut]

Sounds pretty damn tasty.

 

[Rodja]

Sounds pretty damn tasty.

It is. I really wish I had this at my disposal when I was fighting full-time as it would have taken my conditioning to a new level.

 

[juggernaut]

I train a Bellatore fighter and usually did a ton of explosive olympic training. No one could touch his strength. he tried the 20 rep deads and loved it.

 

[CG]

prowler flu defined

"Symptoms: Fever, aches, chills, tiredness, disassociation, slurred speech, cramping, some crap about GPP that nobody understands, seeing stars, muscle aches, dry coughs, vomiting, anal leakage, incontinence, precum – milky discharge, double vision, swamp ass, fromunda cheese, backing biscuits (females), decrease in FUPA volume, decrease of body fat,reinforcement of bulimic habits and being in the best shape of your life."