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Anyone have peer reviews articles on exogenous test and male fertility?

SloppyJ

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Get Shredded!
Been off for 6 months now and going to try and conceive a baby around July. I want to run a cycle but not sure if it will interfere. I can wait but you know how it goes.

Everyone always says "yeah I got my wife pregnant while I was on" that's cool but I'm looking for scientific data. But real experiences will be nice to hear about though.
 

biggiesmallz

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I've been on numerous AAS/PH/DS forums and the general concensus, even from the medical standpoint, seems to be that AAS doesn't effect quality of fertility, in other words it has zero impact on sperm DNA, but it does effect quantity. In other words, spermatogenesis is close to nil when you're on AAS simply because exogenous hormones shut down HPTA production. So, your chances of having a baby while on AAS, tho by no means improbable, are significantly lowered.

Again tho, I too am part of the same club of "I've known plenty of people to conceive child while on cycle" because I have friends that have done it. Kids are healthy AFAIK, but personally if I was making that kind of life decision I would want to do everything I could to get it right the way I wanted to get it right, if that makes sense. Personal opinion, wait to cycle till wife's pregnancy kicks in... pinning then would give you that extra energy boost to deal with all the bullshit anyway, best approach in my humble opinion
 

biggiesmallz

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Also here's some more info that may be useful for some;

Austinite said:
There are 2 major components involved in recovery. Testosterone production and Spermatogenesis.

LH and FSH are both required for the equation. LH is produced by the pituitary and stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. Once testosterone is in production it works alongside FSH and stimulates sertoli cells to produce sperm. Sperm production is hindered if either of these are unhealthy. They both work in synergy. You need BOTH to be at healthy levels.

clomid has multiple effects. It's an anti-estrogen, so it obviously decreases the estrogenic effects in your body by stimulating the Hypothalamus back to life and sending gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) to your pituitary, so that LH/FSH can be secreted.

Nolva boosts the effects of clomid because it put clomid into "competition" mode where they both fight for a receptors to bind to. This competitiveness will only occur with the presence of BOTH nolva/clomid, and will inevitably resolve the issue of excess estrogen in the Hypothalamus. This will trigger both LH and FSH to crank UP, as the high estrogen in this cluster is suppressive. This entire scenario is not as effective with only one drug.

Furthermore varying the compounds; Since we know both stimulate LH, what most don't know is that the act is different. clomid boosts the amplitude of LH serum, but has no effect on the frequency. Nolvadex is the complete opposite in that area, where it boosts the actual frequency of LH and has no effect on its amplitude.

You're probably assuming they're identical and overpowering... clomid is a mixed agonist/antagonist for the estradiol receptor. Nolva is also mixed, however.... it is a pure antagonist in the E receptor in breast tissue. There is a reason that clomid is not recommended for gynecomastia reversal, but Nolva is.

Can you recover with just Nolvadex, or just clomid? Well, anything is possible. But why would you take that risk if the combination gives you a much better chance? To save a few bucks and risk your health? clomid when coupled with Nolvadex is clearly the safer choice over using either compound individually.


Also in reference to sexual fluids, excuse the font it got shifted from the quote;

in reference to male/female sexuality, look into this:

OM-CHI Herbs - EPISANDRA Enhanced Stamina and Sexual Drive
Episandra compound is a proprietary blend of Chinese herbal extracts shown to have strong aphrodisiac properties and to improve general health. The herbs in this compound have all been used for centuries for these purposes in China, with excellent results.

This product can be used by both men and women with no undesirable side effects and is safe for all people.

Active Ingredients:
Epimedium sagittatum: "Epimedii is a very powerful yang (male) tonic herb. It?s power ranks almost with the animal yang tonics?It?s name can be translated as "the herb for the man who likes sex too much, like a goat" or "passionate goat weed"?This is what Epimedii is famous for. Women, too, take this herb to increase their sexual drive?

Schisandra is said to increase circulation in and sensitivity of the female genitals. Many women claim increased genital warmth and sensation after using Schisandra for a period of time "?for both men and women, Schisandra is considered to have aphrodisiac qualtities?it tends to contain sexual fluids until the appropriate time for their release. Thus, consuming Schisandra for a period of time, one tends to build up sexual fluids."

Can google the rest and find the product, wasn't sure on forum rules so don't want to post links to "competing stores"

Also Ultra Male from Iron Mag Labs should provide a natural libido boost, if needed


 

the_predator

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I've been on numerous AAS/PH/DS forums and the general concensus, even from the medical standpoint, seems to be that AAS doesn't effect quality of fertility, in other words it has zero impact on sperm DNA, but it does effect quantity. In other words, spermatogenesis is close to nil when you're on AAS simply because exogenous hormones shut down HPTA production. So, your chances of having a baby while on AAS, tho by no means improbable, are significantly lowered.

Again tho, I too am part of the same club of "I've known plenty of people to conceive child while on cycle" because I have friends that have done it. Kids are healthy AFAIK, but personally if I was making that kind of life decision I would want to do everything I could to get it right the way I wanted to get it right, if that makes sense. Personal opinion, wait to cycle till wife's pregnancy kicks in... pinning then would give you that extra energy boost to deal with all the bullshit anyway, best approach in my humble opinion
^Great advice! If you have ever read any of my posts in the past about this you will know that I believe that in the long run gear can fuck you for baby making. Now don't get me wrong, this is not going to be the case with everyone. I have done a crap ton of cycles and self admitted I didn't know what I was doing when I was younger, ie, no pct, just bridging, ext. Anyway, my wife and I have been trying for seven years to have another child. We were blessed with one but have had massive problems since. My sperm count has been in the dirt for several years and we had tried everything minus IVF with the doctors and then I tried my own protocol of HMG. All of this to no avail. Months ago I found out my wife developed ovary problems as of recent and between that and my low sperm count were told there is pretty much no way to have another child. After that I went into a deep depression and drank and ate myself almost 50 pounds of weight(you can read more in my log if you choose) in the realization of never being able to have another child. Long story short, just watch cycles and sperm count.
 

SloppyJ

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Thanks for the info guys. It's just as I thought, exogenous test seems very counterproductive to conceiving a child.

Going to have to look into Clomid and nolva supplementation as well.
 

NoviceAAS

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on two occasions I have had one "slip by the goalie" while fully on blast , but I do think it depends on how you run your cycle. In your case I would certainly incorporate HCG and clomid if you dont already.
 

skinnyguy180

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Actually I have been on both sides of the fence. I got my girl preg while blasting after a while of trt and blasts but a year later(nowgoing on for almost a year) we are trying for more and its not happening easy. but we have two so we cant complain. Had to come off trt(this is the worste) for 6 mos now and went on clomid now doing hcg. bottom line is if you already have a plan to have a kid and your not on AAS just stay off till it happens then decimate that STOOPID HTPA.
 

heavyiron

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Steroids reduce fertility. This is commonly reported and has been studied extensively.
 

biggiesmallz

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^Great advice! If you have ever read any of my posts in the past about this you will know that I believe that in the long run gear can fuck you for baby making. Now don't get me wrong, this is not going to be the case with everyone. I have done a crap ton of cycles and self admitted I didn't know what I was doing when I was younger, ie, no pct, just bridging, ext. Anyway, my wife and I have been trying for seven years to have another child. We were blessed with one but have had massive problems since. My sperm count has been in the dirt for several years and we had tried everything minus IVF with the doctors and then I tried my own protocol of HMG. All of this to no avail. Months ago I found out my wife developed ovary problems as of recent and between that and my low sperm count were told there is pretty much no way to have another child. After that I went into a deep depression and drank and ate myself almost 50 pounds of weight(you can read more in my log if you choose) in the realization of never being able to have another child. Long story short, just watch cycles and sperm count.
Nothing is impossible brother, mayhaps with the right protocol and understanding there's still a chance. For what it's worth, here's another study done on reversal of hypogonadism from steroid abuse using HCG, may be of service to some

Anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism treated with human chorionic gonadotropin.

Also good to keep in mind the following info regarding HCG use;

HCG myth debunked:


There are 2 ways that could potentially desensitize Leydig Cells:

1. Prolonged LH deprivation: When you inject steroids, your LH production is halted at the pituitary, remember? So if you continue in a suppressed state for weeks upon weeks, your Leydig Cells could potentially become unresponsive, or desensitized. It is possible to reverse desensitization of the cells, but that has been proven to be quite a difficult task. So when you use hCG on cycle, the mimicked LH analog will maintain stimulation of Leydig cells so that you don't run the risk of rendering them useless. This level of maintenance will ensure a much healthier and speedy recovery and one of the most important reasons to use hCG on cycle.

2. Over stimulation/supplying of Leydig cells: There is no reason to use more than 500 IU of hCG at one time. And certainly not a good idea to run even that dose on a daily basis. You do not have an unlimited-ever-flowing-supply of Leydig cells. There is only so much stimulation hCG can do. What happens when you dose hCG really high, is that you're increasing intra-testicular estrogen. So you're thinking that you could use an aromatase inhibitor in that case, right? Nope. AI's are not effective treatment for intra-testicular e2. Furthermore; high doses is a surefire way to desensitize Leydig Cells. So we have a double whammy here. And this is just another reason to use hCG on cycle, and not "blast" hCG post cycle leading up to and/or during PCT.

For the sake of preventing another debate, Rich Piana is clueless.
Now, I understand the proper usage of HCG on-cycle... generally advised at 250iu bi-weekly, sometimes at 500iu bi-weekly, but from the source I came across they referenced a study that basically said there's marginal benefit from HCG when pinning 250 vs 500 bi-weekly, so with that understanding I don't see the need to pin more than 250. That said, is there some limited duration to which HCG should be used on-cycle?

I also heard conflicting information on long-term HCG use can possibly desensitize lydig cells to natural LH response. Any truth to that?

There's only so many cells to stimulate, and the doses of 1500 weekly max, spread over 3 or more doses is sufficient enough. If long term therapy was dangerous at those doses, it would mean that our very own production would desensitize cells, doesnt make sense, does it? 250 IU is not necessarily the magic number. Your goal should be to use the least amount of hCG that works for you. Recently, discussing my concerns with the lead urologist in (some magical place out there somewhere), we came to conclude that for me, as a TRT patient, my usual dose of 250 twice weekly is excessive. So we are planning on reducing the dose to 100 IU, 3 times weekly. Note that this urologist is not my doctor, but a friend and partner in a clinical trial.

Blasting hCG is unhealthy, and the increase in intratesticular E2, which cannot be managed with the commonly readily available aromatase inhibitors, is damaging.




*******Would have to do your own thinking and figuring out from all the above info to see if you find anything useful for your personal specifics. Best of luck!


 

Kirk B

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it would probably be best to stay off till you try for just the fact you been off so your count should be good and keep it that way and after she's prego go back on it shouldn't take too long imho this is the best route i got wifey pregnate off the cycle for 9 months and only came in her 5 x in 5 years and she got prego 2 x and i ran 5 cycles so your fine while off i did this btw good luck and hope you and your have a beautiful healthy baby bro !!!!!!
 

biggiesmallz

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^Great advice! If you have ever read any of my posts in the past about this you will know that I believe that in the long run gear can fuck you for baby making. Now don't get me wrong, this is not going to be the case with everyone. I have done a crap ton of cycles and self admitted I didn't know what I was doing when I was younger, ie, no pct, just bridging, ext. Anyway, my wife and I have been trying for seven years to have another child. We were blessed with one but have had massive problems since. My sperm count has been in the dirt for several years and we had tried everything minus IVF with the doctors and then I tried my own protocol of HMG. All of this to no avail. Months ago I found out my wife developed ovary problems as of recent and between that and my low sperm count were told there is pretty much no way to have another child. After that I went into a deep depression and drank and ate myself almost 50 pounds of weight(you can read more in my log if you choose) in the realization of never being able to have another child. Long story short, just watch cycles and sperm count.
One more thing brother, I've used this information to successfully treat cancer in some people (true story) so this link may be of huge service to you and your wife if you understand it rightly, hope it helps. Best of luck;

Your unconscious mind is running your life! | LifeTrainings
 

biggiesmallz

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Gonna transform fertility like Optimus Prime with all this info :)


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biggiesmallz

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golden_sperm.jpg

(if any mods feel this is inappropriate please feel free to remove it, but it's nothing that no man has never seen ^_^ )
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The intention is medical in nature :winkfinger:
 
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