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Been tinkering and I have come up with....

leg_press

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IML Gear Cream!
For those of you who dont know me I am 22 years old, like in the United Kingdom, weigh around 135lbs and I am around 5 ft 9 tall. My goal is to gain muscle mass but stay as lean as possible
ONE
3 whole eggs (poached)
65g bran flakes with semi skimmed milk
1 handful of raisins
1 scoop whey protein in water
2 tbs brown sauce to flavour eggs
2 tsp peanut butter
1 cup of coffee (no sugar and semi skimmed milk)
Two
I tub of cottage cheese w/ pineapple & a large banana

Three
1 chicken breast or 8oz lean steak orone can of tuna (no mayo)or one can of low salt/sugar baked beans w/ grated 1/2 fat cheese
1 medium sweet/white potato (baked)
or
1 cup (cooked) brown rice
steamed veggies
Four
65 g bran flakes w/ sem skimmed milk
1 handful of raisins
1 scoop of whey protein in water
Five
1 chicken breastor8 oz steak ortwo cans of tuna(no mayo)
steamed veggies and mixed salad (lettuce, tomato, mushroom, cucumber peppers etc)
before bed
1 scoop whey protein with milk
post workout
bottled protein shake with 50g protein and 60g fast release carbs
2x flax oil and 3 times fish oil caps
starting off at 3 ltrs of water a day gradually increasing over the coming weeks
 
I actually like this one, only thing I'd change is I'd trade the scoop of whey before bed for a scoop of casein instead.
 
Researched and seems like casein although I used to take it regularly some poeple say is the crap left after whey and isnt worth ingesting. Maybe I should have cottage cheese instead.
 
Casein is a slow digesting protein whereas whey is fast digesting, which is why you would want casein before going to sleep. The protein in cottage cheese is mainly casein, hence why the two are considered interchangeable.
 
Thats what i thought, I misread the article, it said that casein was used a cheap filler in some proteins which are very very cheap in small ammounts.
 
For those of you who dont know me I am 22 years old, like in the United Kingdom, weigh around 135lbs and I am around 5 ft 9 tall. My goal is to gain muscle mass but stay as lean as possible
ONE
3 whole eggs (poached)
65g bran flakes with semi skimmed milk
1 handful of raisins
1 scoop whey protein in water
2 tbs brown sauce to flavour eggs
2 tsp peanut butter
1 cup of coffee (no sugar and semi skimmed milk)
Ok way to much fat in this meal. You got 3 whole eggs, two TBSP of Peanut butter and Semi Skimmined milk, that's about 35G of fat! So -
-if you want whole poached eggs, and your having 3 drop the Peanut butter.
-Also may be a bit too much protein, if I were you I'd cut the whey back to 1/2 a scoop.
- Bran Flakes are okay so long as they fit into your overall caloric/macronutrient plan. There are better more vitamin/mineral dense options though such as oat meal or oat bran..
- The brown sauce is "alright" too, just make sure your accounting for it in your calories/macronutrients.
Two
I tub of cottage cheese w/ pineapple & a large banana
-Too much fruit here, drop either the pineapple or the large banana (preferably the pineapple).
-Add some starchy carbs here
-Add some Fat here (the peanut butter from Meal 1 would be good, although 2TBSP may be a bit much)
Three
1 chicken breast or 8oz lean steak orone can of tuna (no mayo)or one can of low salt/sugar baked beans w/ grated 1/2 fat cheese
1 medium sweet/white potato (baked)
or
1 cup (cooked) brown rice
steamed veggies
- No matter what try and include those steamed veggies in this meal
- If your eating the chicken breast or the Tuna then you need to include an additional fat source. (You don't if your eating the steak)
- If you have the baked bean with 1/2 fat cheese your probably going to need an additional protein source (so 1/2 a can of tuna, 1/2 a chicken breast etc.) Also fresh or frozen beans would be better than canned ..
Four
65 g bran flakes w/ sem skimmed milk
1 handful of raisins
1 scoop of whey protein in water
- Once again, the bran flakes are fine however there are better options ..
- Since you had some raisins at breakfast and it's later on in the day I'd be more opted for a type of berry, apple or pear instead of the raisins.
- The whey is fine, if you were being overly 'anal' about your diet then you'd want to think about switching it to a whole food source.
- Add a Fat source
- Can you get some Veggies in here?
- Also it may be a good idea to switch the skim milk to some form of a probiotic yogurt ..
Five
1 chicken breastor8 oz steak ortwo cans of tuna(no mayo)
steamed veggies and mixed salad (lettuce, tomato, mushroom, cucumber peppers etc)
- Once again if your having the chicken or tuna you need another fat source.
- Don't have two cans of tuna, one at most that's all you need.
before bed
1 scoop whey protein with milk
Switch this up to some Cottage cheese + some type of berry + some fat (Peanut butter would work well).
If you don't want Cottage cheese again, then your next best bet would to be have a bit of veggies with some red meat.
post workout
bottled protein shake with 50g protein and 60g fast release carbs
2x flax oil and 3 times fish oil caps
-You don't need 50G of protein at one sitting .. try for 30 -40G at most. -Also ditch the flax and fish oil - put them in another meal.
-Also if I were you I'd include some Skim milk PWO, milk is extremely anabolic at this time!


Overall looks pretty good, you just need to balance your meals more, and not go so overkill on the protein. You'd be better off increasing your carb intake and lowering your protein right now for your goals.
Also you need to add in 6 - 10 fish oil caps throughout the day (not PWO though), 3 ain't enough.
Also just for overall health benefits I'd consider adding in a probiotic yogurt in place of the skim milk in those meals. (However stick to skim milk PWO, not yogurt).
 
Tom B, your advice is sound and everything and I'm not criticising you at all however, the dude is 22 years old and is a measley 135lbs. I think saying he is eating too much fruit at meal 2 is abit heavy and many of your comments. I just think the guy should eat for now, maybe look at the poportion and get an idea for it and listen to how is body responds. Damn most of it is all natural food neway so if he is eating like this everyday then I sure wouldn't think it need's tweaking excpet maybe MORE cals.

Your comments/advice is certainly appreciated not just to the poster but readers too, even myself. However I think it isn't as practical, I would say if the guy is 190lbs, 16% bf for e.g. the yes. But for now JUST EAT THE DAMN FOOD!

Raz
 
Ok way to much fat in this meal. You got 3 whole eggs, two TBSP of Peanut butter and Semi Skimmined milk, that's about 35G of fat! So -
-if you want whole poached eggs, and your having 3 drop the Peanut butter.
-Also may be a bit too much protein, if I were you I'd cut the whey back to 1/2 a scoop.
- Bran Flakes are okay so long as they fit into your overall caloric/macronutrient plan. There are better more vitamin/mineral dense options though such as oat meal or oat bran..
- The brown sauce is "alright" too, just make sure your accounting for it in your calories/macronutrients.

-Too much fruit here, drop either the pineapple or the large banana (preferably the pineapple).
-Add some starchy carbs here
-Add some Fat here (the peanut butter from Meal 1 would be good, although 2TBSP may be a bit much)

- No matter what try and include those steamed veggies in this meal
- If your eating the chicken breast or the Tuna then you need to include an additional fat source. (You don't if your eating the steak)
- If you have the baked bean with 1/2 fat cheese your probably going to need an additional protein source (so 1/2 a can of tuna, 1/2 a chicken breast etc.) Also fresh or frozen beans would be better than canned ..

- Once again, the bran flakes are fine however there are better options ..
- Since you had some raisins at breakfast and it's later on in the day I'd be more opted for a type of berry, apple or pear instead of the raisins.
- The whey is fine, if you were being overly 'anal' about your diet then you'd want to think about switching it to a whole food source.
- Add a Fat source
- Can you get some Veggies in here?
- Also it may be a good idea to switch the skim milk to some form of a probiotic yogurt ..

- Once again if your having the chicken or tuna you need another fat source.
- Don't have two cans of tuna, one at most that's all you need.

Switch this up to some Cottage cheese + some type of berry + some fat (Peanut butter would work well).
If you don't want Cottage cheese again, then your next best bet would to be have a bit of veggies with some red meat.

-You don't need 50G of protein at one sitting .. try for 30 -40G at most. -Also ditch the flax and fish oil - put them in another meal.
-Also if I were you I'd include some Skim milk PWO, milk is extremely anabolic at this time!


Overall looks pretty good, you just need to balance your meals more, and not go so overkill on the protein. You'd be better off increasing your carb intake and lowering your protein right now for your goals.
Also you need to add in 6 - 10 fish oil caps throughout the day (not PWO though), 3 ain't enough.
Also just for overall health benefits I'd consider adding in a probiotic yogurt in place of the skim milk in those meals. (However stick to skim milk PWO, not yogurt).

Should of mentioned that the flax/fish oil is over the course of the day, and the bottled protein is post workout because i want to feed my muscles with as much fast digesting protein/carbs
 
I understand what your saying Raz, and I completely agree.
My point is, is that alot of his meals are horribly unbalanced! In meal 1 he has near 35G of fat, in meal two he's got what maybe 5G?
Not to mention he's overdosing on the protein, when he could be saving his calories and money by replacing them with carbs. It just hate when people get the whole idea 'more protein is better' :rolleyes:

With my suggestions I'm mearly trying to tell him to
a) Balance out his meals
b) Cut out some of the protein and replace it with Carbs
c) Start taking more Fish oil
d) Stick to fesh or frozen veggies over caned

Even if he were to take my suggestions that would be no where near a 'perfect' diet .. Yes someone his age/height/weight should really just be focusing on eating healthy meals at appropriate times, however he posted his diet for a critique so obviously he wanted a little help in making it better and doing things in a more 'correct' manner so that's what helped with ..
Oh well :shrug: It's doubtful he'll make the changes anyway.
 
IML Gear Cream!
I understand what your saying Raz, and I completely agree.
My point is, is that alot of his meals are horribly unbalanced! In meal 1 he has near 35G of fat, in meal two he's got what maybe 5G?
Not to mention he's overdosing on the protein, when he could be saving his calories and money by replacing them with carbs. It just hate when people get the whole idea 'more protein is better' :rolleyes:

With my suggestions I'm mearly trying to tell him to
a) Balance out his meals
b) Cut out some of the protein and replace it with Carbs
c) Start taking more Fish oil
d) Stick to fesh or frozen veggies over caned

Even if he were to take my suggestions that would be no where near a 'perfect' diet .. Yes someone his age/height/weight should really just be focusing on eating healthy meals at appropriate times, however he posted his diet for a critique so obviously he wanted a little help in making it better and doing things in a more 'correct' manner so that's what helped with ..
Oh well :shrug: It's doubtful he'll make the changes anyway.


Point taken Tom, s'pose I used 4/5 egg whites instead of 3 whole eggs?
 
Then yes if you did that you could keep the Peanut butter. Also I would still consider reducing the whey to about 1/2 a scoop ... you got 4/5 egg whites (bout 20G protein) then a scoop of whey (about 24G protein) and then some milk! (about another 7G of protein or so), thats 51G of protein and your only 135lbs. You don't need that much in one meal, you'd be better off increasing your carbs.

Also make sure that the fat/calories your subtracting from that meal by taking out the egg yolks gets added elsewhere to another meal.
 
I understand what your saying Raz, and I completely agree.
My point is, is that alot of his meals are horribly unbalanced! In meal 1 he has near 35G of fat, in meal two he's got what maybe 5G?
Not to mention he's overdosing on the protein, when he could be saving his calories and money by replacing them with carbs. It just hate when people get the whole idea 'more protein is better' :rolleyes:

With my suggestions I'm mearly trying to tell him to
a) Balance out his meals
b) Cut out some of the protein and replace it with Carbs
c) Start taking more Fish oil
d) Stick to fesh or frozen veggies over caned

Even if he were to take my suggestions that would be no where near a 'perfect' diet .. Yes someone his age/height/weight should really just be focusing on eating healthy meals at appropriate times, however he posted his diet for a critique so obviously he wanted a little help in making it better and doing things in a more 'correct' manner so that's what helped with ..
Oh well :shrug: It's doubtful he'll make the changes anyway.


Yer your right actually, that's cool. I just hate it when ppl try to get things to perfection and over analyze things.

I used to do this when I was bulking up and eventually it sunk into my head 'I was getting nowhere fast!' So, I said to my self if this isn't working I will do a trial and go the opposite way. I looked at most the food I eat and try to calculate the macro balance in my head, no calorie counting or anything down on paper. Then b4 I knew it I blew up, Okay I may not be at my ideal physique now but I am a damn sight closer than I was counting my calories and macro's. Now, however I am being slightly stricter and putting much more thought into it and NOW is the time, I'm starting to lean out, recomp if you wish and taking it too the next level. I guess my point is don't act advanced when your a biggenner.

I shouldn't have pointed the finger on you, your advice is sound. I just think, at my age 18, 135lbs sucks so at his age Do something about it Fast! Whilst your young and still can, come back in 8-12months when you gained alot of mass and NEED to plan things out.

Raz
 
Well the way I started out doing things, and still do to a degree, is by counting calories and measuring things out. I think that everyone, no matter what shape you are in, should start out with portion and calorie measuring at the beginning. It gives you an idea of the real amount of food you need, and allows you to see an actual "perfect" meal. Is it realistic to do this as a lifestyle? Probably not, but doing that has, at least for me, given a sense of what is in a food, and allows me to guesstimate how much food I really need and what is in that food macro wise much more realistically than had I never done calorie/portion counting.
 
Eating nothing but egg whites pisses me off. Look, taking the yolk out of an egg is not the magical answer to making them healthier. Also, eggs as a whole food, if you eat one with the yolk and everything has a better synergy for absorption and digestion. Also if cholesterol is a concern there have been several studies that have shown that eating whole eggs every day does not noticably increase cholesterol.

I don't really agree with eating peanut butter early in the day period. If any time for peanut butter I would suggest eating it before bed. I approve of his diet mostly because it's calorie dense and it's decent quality foods. The guy is my height and weighs 50lbs less than me, and I'm LEAN!

Yes it would be good to reduce the fat on the first meal, and yes he could reduce the protein on some of his other meals... but really in a bulking situation like his the focus needs to be on overall calorie count and making sure it's a lot of carbs and protein and that every meal has around the same number of cals. Also why suggest berries on his last meal? And why say he has too much fruit on his second meal? Keep in mind fruit is one of the very best sources of natural sugar carbs and carbs are best consumed early in the day as opposed to later. When you're reaching the end of the day your focus needs to be shifted more to healthy fats which is where nuts and vegitibles play a big role... not fruit.

Another thing I would suggest is if you're going to have fast digesting carbs (low GI) then have them before your workout, not after. Yes after your workout it's a good idea to replenish glycogen stores but it's more of a concern for you to have your stores built up so it can be used for the workout itself. After you've tore down your muscles the best thing for you is complete proteins to be used in muscle repair. Which is why most have a shake with anywhere from 25-45g of protein, and then some SLOWER burning carbs to replace stores but not give your body a surge of carbs that will likely result in more fat storing. A good post workout shake (example) is a lean protein with whole oats, probiotic yogurt, and skim milk.

You know what... I'm just gonna go home haha to hell with it
 
Eh for me it's really the fat content in the eggs that kills me. Any more than 1 whole egg and it kills the macros for that meal, and I eat upwards of 5 eggs (1 whole egg, 4 egg whites) for breakfast every single day with an apple and some oats, so eating more than 1 whole egg per meal is sort of meh.
 
Ok firstly before I reply to Plateau Max's response I want to state that leg_press's goals were to bulk "While staying as lean as possible" He posted his diet for a critique, WHICH I DID. Even after I critiqued it would be no where near a completely clean planed out diet, and as I've already stated I believe that all he should be focusing on is eating healthy BALANCED meals at the appropriate times.
Anyways .. on we go

Eating nothing but egg whites pisses me off. Look, taking the yolk out of an egg is not the magical answer to making them healthier. Also, eggs as a whole food, if you eat one with the yolk and everything has a better synergy for absorption and digestion. Also if cholesterol is a concern there have been several studies that have shown that eating whole eggs every day does not noticeably increase cholesterol.
Your statement is what pisses me off. Are you trying to say that if your only eating egg whites it's not healthy? Why is removing the yolks SO horrible?? Not to mention no one even mentioned cholesterol, I already know that there are many studies disproving the fact that dietary cholesterol affects blood cholesterol.
He removed the yolks in order to bring the fat content down from his first meal (he had near 35G in that meal!) and I've already told him he needs to replace the fat/calories that he's losing in other meals.

I don't really agree with eating peanut butter early in the day period. If any time for peanut butter I would suggest eating it before bed. I approve of his diet mostly because it's calorie dense and it's decent quality foods. The guy is my height and weighs 50lbs less than me, and I'm LEAN!
Ummm why in god's name do you not agree with eating peanut butter early in the day and think it should only be used before bed?? Have I been unaware that for some reason in the morning the human body can not process peanut butter?? :rolleyes:
I "approved" of his diet as well, the only difference is I told him he needs to balance it out more. Just because it's 'calorie dense' doesn't mean it's necessarily great. If he's eating too much for his body to handle then what's the point of bulking up if it's going to be mostly fat he's gaining? The trick is to be eating "decent quality foods" at the appropriate servings at the appropriate times. Especially considering he's trying to stay as lean as possible.
Also It doesn't matter how lean you are, this guy may be 50lbs lighter than you but that doesn't mean he's lean. Not everyone who's skinny is lean.

Yes it would be good to reduce the fat on the first meal, and yes he could reduce the protein on some of his other meals... but really in a bulking situation like his the focus needs to be on overall calorie count and making sure it's a lot of carbs and protein and that every meal has around the same number of cals.
... hmmm once again exactly what I was saying he needs to balance out his meals more! He doesn't need to be ODing on the protein, it's completely pointless all the excess is just going to undergo Gluconeogenesis and be turned into glucose, wasting calories as well as money he'll be spending on the extra food. All he needs is 1.5 - 2G x LBM as the absolute most.

Also why suggest berries on his last meal? And why say he has too much fruit on his second meal? Keep in mind fruit is one of the very best sources of natural sugar carbs and carbs are best consumed early in the day as opposed to later. When you're reaching the end of the day your focus needs to be shifted more to healthy fats which is where nuts and vegitibles play a big role... not fruit.
I told him he has too much fruit in meal 2 because you has a large banana as well as a pineapple, that's too much fructose all at once and he'd be better off replacing one of those with a starchy carb source.
That is a myth that towards the end of the day your focus NEEDS to be on fats and protein. Carbs before bed can actually be quite beneficial which is why I suggested the berries. The extra carbs (especially something like fructose) will help maintain heptic liver glycogen stores throughout the night which is not only anabolic but very anti-catabolic since it'll help maximize the Growth Hormone and blunt the release of cortisol at the same time.

Another thing I would suggest is if you're going to have fast digesting carbs (low GI) then have them before your workout, not after. Yes after your workout it's a good idea to replenish glycogen stores but it's more of a concern for you to have your stores built up so it can be used for the workout itself. After you've tore down your muscles the best thing for you is complete proteins to be used in muscle repair. Which is why most have a shake with anywhere from 25-45g of protein, and then some SLOWER burning carbs to replace stores but not give your body a surge of carbs that will likely result in more fat storing. A good post workout shake (example) is a lean protein with whole oats, probiotic yogurt, and skim milk.

You know what... I'm just gonna go home haha to hell with it
Ok firstly fat digesting carbs would be High GI not low.
Secondly you can't just suggest 'fast digesting' carbs before a workout before even knowing when he's training in correlation to his pre workout meal. What if he's training 2 hours after his pre workout meal? If that would be the case then he would need a complete meal (including fats) in order to maintain /sustain energy throughout his workout.
Also it's a personal decision as to whether or not he would want a faster digesting carb compared to a slower post workout or not. People respond better to different things but either way I wouldn't suggest a probitoc yogurt post workout. Firstly it's much more viscous than skim milk and would take longer to digest and secondly due to the fermentation and the live active bacterial cultures breaking apart the lactose and converting the glucose to lactic acid.


Anyways this is my last post in this thread.
Best of luck to ya leg_press in reaching your goals!
 
Tom you took what I said way too personally, I disagreed with a few things you suggested but it seems you treated it like I was attacking you. Which I wasn't.

Your statement is what pisses me off. Are you trying to say that if your only eating egg whites it's not healthy? Why is removing the yolks SO horrible?? Not to mention no one even mentioned cholesterol, I already know that there are many studies disproving the fact that dietary cholesterol affects blood cholesterol.
He removed the yolks in order to bring the fat content down from his first meal (he had near 35G in that meal!) and I've already told him he needs to replace the fat/calories that he's losing in other meals.

I know no one mentioned cholesterol I was just covering my bases. I just think people see egg whites as the answer to making eggs healthy and it's just not true. Don't ignore what I said about the synergy of the food being disrupted, many sources talk about how foods are better whole regarding the body's ability to digest them better.

Ummm why in god's name do you not agree with eating peanut butter early in the day and think it should only be used before bed?? Have I been unaware that for some reason in the morning the human body can not process peanut butter?? :rolleyes:
I "approved" of his diet as well, the only difference is I told him he needs to balance it out more. Just because it's 'calorie dense' doesn't mean it's necessarily great. If he's eating too much for his body to handle then what's the point of bulking up if it's going to be mostly fat he's gaining? The trick is to be eating "decent quality foods" at the appropriate servings at the appropriate times. Especially considering he's trying to stay as lean as possible.
Also It doesn't matter how lean you are, this guy may be 50lbs lighter than you but that doesn't mean he's lean. Not everyone who's skinny is lean.

Calm down. I don't like the idea of having peanut butter early in the morning because it's fat dense.... not to mention you're the one yelling at me about eggs without yolks because of the fat content.

... hmmm once again exactly what I was saying he needs to balance out his meals more! He doesn't need to be ODing on the protein, it's completely pointless all the excess is just going to undergo Gluconeogenesis and be turned into glucose, wasting calories as well as money he'll be spending on the extra food. All he needs is 1.5 - 2G x LBM as the absolute most.

So here's a point where we agree on something yet you're yelling at me about it anyway. I said his focus needs to be balanced out and focused on carbs and protein, what's the problem?

I told him he has too much fruit in meal 2 because you has a large banana as well as a pineapple, that's too much fructose all at once and he'd be better off replacing one of those with a starchy carb source.
That is a myth that towards the end of the day your focus NEEDS to be on fats and protein. Carbs before bed can actually be quite beneficial which is why I suggested the berries. The extra carbs (especially something like fructose) will help maintain heptic liver glycogen stores throughout the night which is not only anabolic but very anti-catabolic since it'll help maximize the Growth Hormone and blunt the release of cortisol at the same time.

It's not a myth that later in the day your focus needs to be on fats and protein. Someone didn't just randomly decide one day that it's better to do that, there have been several studies backing it up. Also I'm not going to get into another arguement about carbs before bed, if you do a search you'll find plenty of thread several pages long about it with some great arguements on both sides. Ask Jodi or Emma about it I'm sure they'll fill you in.

Ok firstly fat digesting carbs would be High GI not low.
Secondly you can't just suggest 'fast digesting' carbs before a workout before even knowing when he's training in correlation to his pre workout meal. What if he's training 2 hours after his pre workout meal? If that would be the case then he would need a complete meal (including fats) in order to maintain /sustain energy throughout his workout.
Also it's a personal decision as to whether or not he would want a faster digesting carb compared to a slower post workout or not. People respond better to different things but either way I wouldn't suggest a probitoc yogurt post workout. Firstly it's much more viscous than skim milk and would take longer to digest and secondly due to the fermentation and the live active bacterial cultures breaking apart the lactose and converting the glucose to lactic acid.

The low GI thing was a typo. Thanks.

So when you say people react different to different things are you telling me that the insulin surge you get from high GI carbs isn't the case in some people? Also I'm just saying if he really wants the fast digesting carbs then they'd be better before a workout where the energy can be used for the workout itself, nothing wrong with that. I didn't tell him to consume pure carbs either so that complete meal aspect you're talking about is moot. Besides I think every meal should be complete. So probiotic yogurt is viscous and takes longer to digest sure, but why is that a problem? I'm still not understanding why he needs to have fast digesting food immediately after working out. Whey is better because it's faster digesting but the muscle needs that complete protein for the repair process... other than that his body doesn't need immediate digestion of anything especially since the workout is later in the day not in the morning.



Also keep in mind I'm not pulling any of this out of my ass. I have been in the game for a few years now, and have read about 17 books in the last 2 years just on diet/nutrition and physical fitness. That's not including my NASM CPT study/text books, or the books I've read for my anatomy and physiology classes (college, not HS).

I hate arguing.
 
Thanks guys, I was told that post workout, the body was like a sponge and that fast release carbs were best to replace glucogen, so that protein could start repairing the damage the workout had done.
 
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