My next experiment: PLASMA EXPANDER

[Snake_Eyes]

Doesn't matter what you think consciously. A study with a sample size of n=1, who is aware he is taking something that may or may not improve performance, WILL be skewed to the point of rendering that study useless, despite what you may feel to be the case.

 

[Training God]

That's a valid point Snake Eyes.

 

[~LP~]

LMAO! What a joke. I'm glad you've been at things so long, that pumps, and feeling your skin being tight, and slight progress that may or may not be a result of what you ate that day, how the spotter helped or didn't help, psychological factors, hydration level, warmup, length of rest prior to working sets.

I'm glad that you have it all figured out, with a one person test subject. You should maybe work for Muscletech too, so you can take cell tech, and feel your muscles grow by 184331% in one week.

If you are so doubtful about supplements you wouldn't be praising something after one week, and telling us these things you are imagining. I don't know if they pay you to do this, or if you simply don't know what is happening.

At least coming to this site, I've now realized who NOT to get supplement advice from. In this, I must thank you.

 

[Training God]

Lol.

 

[kuso]

it must really suck to be a whore and not have a board to post on

 

[Training God]

*** This is just a chunk of an article taken from the Skeptics Dictionary.



"Some believe the placebo effect is psychological, due to a belief in the treatment or to a subjective feeling of improvement. Irving Kirsch, a psychologist at the University of Connecticut, believes that the effectiveness of Prozac and similar drugs may be attributed almost entirely to the placebo effect. He and Guy Sapirstein analyzed 19 clinical trials of antidepressants and concluded that the expectation of improvement, not adjustments in brain chemistry, accounted for 75 percent of the drugs' effectiveness (Kirsch 1998). "The critical factor," says Kirsch, "is our beliefs about what's going to happen to us. You don't have to rely on drugs to see profound transformation." In an earlier study, Sapirstein analyzed 39 studies, done between 1974 and 1995, of depressed patients treated with drugs, psychotherapy, or a combination of both. He found that 50 percent of the drug effect is due to the placebo response.

A person's beliefs and hopes about a treatment, combined with their suggestibility, may have a significant biochemical effect. Sensory experience and thoughts can affect neurochemistry. The body's neurochemical system affects and is affected by other biochemical systems, including the hormonal and immune systems. Thus, it is consistent with current knowledge that a person's hopeful attitude and beliefs may be very important to their physical well-being and recovery from injury or illness.

However, it may be that much of the placebo effect is not a matter of mind over molecules, but of mind over behavior. A part of the behavior of a "sick" person is learned. So is part of the behavior of a person in pain. In short, there is a certain amount of role-playing by ill or hurt people. Role-playing is not the same as faking or malingering. The behavior of sick or injured persons is socially and culturally based to some extent. The placebo effect may be a measurement of changed behavior affected by a belief in the treatment. The changed behavior includes a change in attitude, in what one says about how one feels, and how one acts. It may also affect one's body chemistry."

 

[Training God]

Originally posted by kuso
it must really suck to be a whore and not have a board to post on

*** Do all the members flame people for finding a post funny???
Plus your a mod.

 

[kuso]

Oh come on.....if you think that was a flame you must really be pretty soft

And actually.....as you are here on and off I was actually refering to LP!

 

[~LP~]

Originally posted by kuso
it must really suck to be a whore and not have a board to post on

Hmmm...my post was valid, with rational reasoning. I don't know why you posted this, but I would rather hear your opinion...it seems there are a lot of yesmen on this board...I'd rather hear a thought out response. Regardless of what board is my main board, I'd like to think concepts are discussed objectively, regardless of who or where the info comes from.

Training god, good quote. I have also read how russian coaches used to have their lifters "visualize" their lift prior to lifting in their maximum range. Apparently, there was a well documented increase in performance from doing this. So this would lead me to believe that the mind can play a significant role in lifting performance. But I guess there is one man alive who is immune to this sort of thing.

 

[kuso]

shit......Ijust had a decent answer typed out and the fucking site dropped out.....you`ll need to w8 a bit now lol

 

[Training God]

Originally posted by ~LP~


Training god, good quote. I have also read how russian coaches used to have their lifters "visualize" their lift prior to lifting in their maximum range. Apparently, there was a well documented increase in performance from doing this. So this would lead me to believe that the mind can play a significant role in lifting performance. But I guess there is one man alive who is immune to this sort of thing.

*** El P you're quite correct when you said that there are a lot of people who add in snide remarks and instead of posting rational remarks backed with common sense, experience and science.

The internet is all about sharing, debating and informing readers while passing on quality information. That's what the beauty of the internet is all about. Free flowing information at our very finger tips.

I ordered a book called "Mental Muscle" which was written by a local prof with his PHD in physcology. Apparently he has a love for bodybuilding and the book revolved around the power of the mind and how it can affect the outcome and skew the results we think we've obtained in our expereinces in lifting. I haven't finished reading it but I would reccomend it.

 

[kuso]

Originally posted by ~LP~



Hmmm...my post was valid, with rational reasoning. Maybe it was the lack of respect you`ve shown here to a mod, and the entire board by adding a link to your own in your profile I don't know why you posted this, but I would rather hear your opinion...Oh.....just so Training God can ask me for the research papers proving beyond a shadow of a doubt why I believe it??it seems there are a lot of yesmen on this board...Another rather general, stupid and insulting thing to say on a board you have only been a member of for two days.....I`m sure if I spoke this way at WBB, added a link to IM. and was rude to your mods I`d cop an earful tooI'd rather hear a thought out response. I disagree....I think you want to hear someone agree with you Regardless of what board is my main board, I'd like to think concepts are discussed objectively, regardless of who or where the info comes from.

Training god, good quote. I have also read how russian coaches used to have their lifters "visualize" their lift prior to lifting in their maximum range. Apparently, there was a well documented increase in performance from doing this. So this would lead me to believe that the mind can play a significant role in lifting performance. But I guess there is one man alive who is immune to this sort of thing.

Anyway...all that aside, IMO I believe that the placebo effect can infact, effect everyone, reguardless of training level or experience. I also think that gopro`s comment saying it doesn`t effect him is no worse that your first comment in here saying I think this is all psychological......................as Training God was nice enough to let us all know yesterday, no one knows to a certainty either way.

 

[~LP~]

I have rebutted a statement by another member. Because he is a mod does that mean I cannot do this now? Are mods superbeings here? There are others here that have links to other sites in their profile. I believe that is why it is there. If it bothers you maybe you should suggest to the admins that they remove that feature. So because it is another training board you have an issue with it. What if it was porn, or a political party you are against. I don't see wtf your point is here. But feel free to whine and complain about it if you wish...has nothing to do with this argument regardless.

Why do I care if someone agrees with me? If I wanted an argument that I would get a lot of support on, I doubt I'd argue with Gopro, as I'm sure his legions of followers will be here to aid his cause soon enough. Perhaps if you could simply stick to the issues at hand, you wouldn't get all riled up over something that has nothing to do with this debate.

Oh and for the psychological part...it seems you agree with me...but won't agree because you are acting childish. If you want to nitpick and look for any flaw in a statement you make, go ahead. Judging from this thread, and the fact that you have over 9k posts here...I'm sure I could find quite a few in yours...if I had the time to waste as you seem to.

I'm perfectly happy debating this subject...but your irrelevent and poorly thought out attacks have no place in this thread. After all, Gopro did say my thinking was incorrect, and that he isn't succeptible to something that seems to be normal, and common with human nature.

*** El P you're quite correct when you said that there are a lot of people who add in snide remarks and instead of posting rational remarks backed with common sense, experience and science.

Yeah, but you gotten my name incorrect...mak.

 

[kuso]

Originally posted by ~LP~
I have rebutted a statement by another member. Because he is a mod does that mean I cannot do this now? Are mods superbeings here? There are others here that have links to other sites in their profile. I believe that is why it is there. If it bothers you maybe you should suggest to the admins that they remove that feature. So because it is another training board you have an issue with it. What if it was porn, or a political party you are against. I don't see wtf your point is here. But feel free to whine and complain about it if you wish...has nothing to do with this argument regardless.

Why do I care if someone agrees with me? If I wanted an argument that I would get a lot of support on, I doubt I'd argue with Gopro, as I'm sure his legions of followers will be here to aid his cause soon enough. Perhaps if you could simply stick to the issues at hand, you wouldn't get all riled up over something that has nothing to do with this debate.

Oh and for the psychological part...it seems you agree with me...but won't agree because you are acting childish. If you want to nitpick and look for any flaw in a statement you make, go ahead. Judging from this thread, and the fact that you have over 9k posts here...I'm sure I could find quite a few in yours...if I had the time to waste as you seem to.

I'm perfectly happy debating this subject...but your irrelevent and poorly thought out attacks have no place in this thread. After all, Gopro did say my thinking was incorrect, and that he isn't succeptible to something that seems to be normal, and common with human nature.


Yeah, but you gotten my name incorrect...mak.

LMFAO.....you asked for the reson I posted, and you asked for my opinion......you now seem a little riled at both both, even though I did agree to a point with you, and to a larger point with Training God, and are now trying to turn this into some sort of personal attack? I must say, I was under the impression you were a little more mature than that

I personally have no problems whatsoever with WBB members here.....I quite enjoy reading some of the shit gopro and Maki go on with ( btw Maki...what part of aisa are you from? ). Love reading some of TCD`s things, and know many of the members at WBB from other sites.

Feel free to go through my posts too if you like, I`m sure you`ll find many stupid things in there, as you will of anyone constantly improving and not set in a single mind set.

 

[Training God]

Oh.....just so Training God can ask me for the research papers proving beyond a shadow of a doubt why I believe it??

*** No, I want to hear your flawed logic. I ask for weight to an argument because too often plain jane comments are made on this board.

Anyway...all that aside, IMO I believe that the placebo effect can infact, effect everyone, reguardless of training level or experience. I also think that gopro`s comment saying it doesn`t effect him is no worse that your first comment in here saying I think this is all psychological......................as Training God was nice enough to let us all know yesterday, no one knows to a certainty either way.

*** So then you agree that Go Pro is definitely suceptiable to this so called effect? Nothing is certain in fitness except the governing scientific laws. However we can come to an agreement that certain things happen in most people. Things such as muscle growth through progressive overload and eating more to gain weight.

 

[kuso]

Originally posted by Training God

*** No, I want to hear your flawed logic. no see...these kinda of rude comments don`t reflect well on WBB and as you keep saying have nothing to do with the topic at hand........shall we drop them?I ask for weight to an argument because too often plain jane comments are made on this board.


*** So then you agree that Go Pro is definitely suceptiable to this so called effect? Nothing is certain in fitness except the governing scientific laws. Yes, twice now I have said that I believe everyone is suceptiable.However we can come to an agreement that certain things happen in most people. Things such as muscle growth through progressive overload and eating more to gain weight.

 

[Training God]

Originally posted by kuso



I personally have no problems whatsoever with WBB members here.....I quite enjoy reading some of the shit gopro and Maki go on with ( btw Maki...what part of aisa are you from? ). Love reading some of TCD`s things, and know many of the members at WBB from other sites.

*** Half Japaneses, half red neck. My quarrel is that the members here need to think for themselves. I have no problem posting over here in a friendly manner and to help out where I can. I am not a nazi mod and haven't banned anyone yet on the other site. In other words I'm not out to be a pest although some may disagree.

 

[Trap-isaurus]

Originally posted by ~LP~
LMAO! What a joke. I'm glad you've been at things so long, that pumps, and feeling your skin being tight, and slight progress that may or may not be a result of what you ate that day, how the spotter helped or didn't help, psychological factors, hydration level, warmup, length of rest prior to working sets.

I'm glad that you have it all figured out, with a one person test subject. You should maybe work for Muscletech too, so you can take cell tech, and feel your muscles grow by 184331% in one week.

If you are so doubtful about supplements you wouldn't be praising something after one week, and telling us these things you are imagining. I don't know if they pay you to do this, or if you simply don't know what is happening.

At least coming to this site, I've now realized who NOT to get supplement advice from. In this, I must thank you.

So far I have seen a picture of GoPro and from the looks of him he knows what he is talking about...you on the other hand I have seen nothing of other than completely witless posting.

 

[kuso]

Personally, I think a lot of the members do think for themselves though usually don`t find the need to argue thier point

What part of Japan are you half from? And what is Maki shortened from....if you don`t mind me asking?

 

[Training God]

no see...these kinda of rude comments don`t reflect well on WBB and as you keep saying have nothing to do with the topic at hand........shall we drop them?

*** I'm sorry I sound rude but that is the sole reason I find myself arguing so much with the members here and at other boards as well. Flawed logic backed by a good dose of ignorance equals a stupid post. I'm not directing this at you though. So don't take offense to it.

 

[Training God]

Originally posted by kuso

What part of Japan are you half from? And what is Maki shortened from....if you don`t mind me asking?

*** Born and raised here in Canada. But my mom is from Tokoyo.
I'm actually going back this christmas for the second time.

My name is not short for anything. Hehe, I get that quite a bit.
Just plain old "Maki."

 

[kuso]

Originally posted by Training God


*** I'm sorry I sound rude but that is the sole reason I find myself arguing so much with the members here and at other boards as well. Flawed logic backed by a good dose of ignorance equals a stupid post. I'm not directing this at you though. So don't take offense to it.

Ok then, I don`t think I`ve read it anywhere else, so tell me, what makes you so muche better than the rest of the members? Phd`s IFBB pro??

And btw......LP.....why would you change your name to post over here? That seems a little small to me.

 

[Trap-isaurus]

Originally posted by Training God
no see...these kinda of rude comments don`t reflect well on WBB and as you keep saying have nothing to do with the topic at hand........shall we drop them?

*** I'm sorry I sound rude but that is the sole reason I find myself arguing so much with the members here and at other boards as well. Flawed logic backed by a good dose of ignorance equals a stupid post. I'm not directing this at you though. So don't take offense to it.

hmmmmm, you have a very curt way of speaking as well freind, I can see that some of it is unintentional.....but it's all in the perception of others i guess.

 

[Training God]

Originally posted by BjUaFyF


So far I have seen a picture of GoPro and from the looks of him he knows what he is talking about...you on the other hand I have seen nothing of other than completely witless posting.

*** You are aware that presence is not everything if anything?
I can look the part but act a fool.

As for Go Pro, just because he is bigger then most and has more competition experience does not mean his word should be taken over and above someone else. It should be the quality of advice backed with the presence of how this person has used the information that should be the determining factor.

 

[Training God]

Originally posted by kuso


Ok then, I don`t think I`ve read it anywhere else, so tell me, what makes you so muche better than the rest of the members? Phd`s IFBB pro??

*** I did not say I was superior to the people on this board. Not once have I ever said that in fact. I just find it peculiar (sp) that when I question someone I get a backlash of verbal attacks on myself as a person and my stance. It's like people are insulted and offended if I question their philosophy.

 

[kuso]

Originally posted by Training God


*** I did not say I was superior to the people on this board. Not once have I ever said that in fact. I just find it peculiar (sp) that when I question someone I get a backlash of verbal attacks on myself as a person and my stance. It's like people are insulted and offended if I question their philosophy.

Well, as you said, you sound rude most of the time!

 

[Trap-isaurus]

Originally posted by Training God


*** You are aware that presence is not everything if anything?
I can look the part but act a fool.

As for Go Pro, just because he is bigger then most and has more competition experience does not mean his word should be taken over and above someone else. It should be the quality of advice backed with the presence of how this person has used the information that should be the determining factor.

Yes I have heard that before, but (and here we go again TG) I don't feel that one can easily look the part of an expereinced body builder/shaper, as In GoPros case to look at his picture shows not only a large amount of muscle and excellent conditioning but years of work, I have yet to find something/anything questionable about GoPros advice. I personally prefer the advice of practical expereince verses book expereince. That is the reason i purchased the book I refered to in another thread, due to the authors years of intense training and practical expereince in the gym.

LP didn't offer any advice all he did was slam a response from GoPro, therfore no quality to measure and no presence of information as he made none available.

 

[Training God]

I guess rudness can be mistaken for being blunt?
Whatever the case I will tone it down and mind my manners.

 

[kuso]

Originally posted by Training God


*** Born and raised here in Canada. But my mom is from Tokoyo.
I'm actually going back this christmas for the second time.

are you gong to be doing any traveling?

My name is not short for anything. Hehe, I get that quite a bit.
Just plain old "Maki."

It`s not the most common male name is it!? Were you actually given a kanji for it, or just the romaji?

 

[Trap-isaurus]

Originally posted by Training God
I guess rudness can be mistaken for being blunt?
Whatever the case I will tone it down and mind my manners.

yes it can I am often accused of the same thing at my work, i don't mean to sound rude but i don't take the time to pretty my comments up I guess you could say.