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?FIRST CYCLE HELP??mudge, pirate, D, etc..

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bullet 29

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IML Gear Cream!
ok boys. bought 2 of your books have made much progress from a medical standpoint and have enjoyed learning the intelect aspect but im still having trouble using understanding and putting together a first stack cycle. the books dont help me relate to forum chat. i have read through about twenty threads on 40 or fifty differnet pages and im flooded. a jump start to keep me pumped would be great.
i did a first cycle of -test enan 250-- for 8 weeks 3cc's once a week. pretty primal considering the forum im in buuut.
did great loved the gains no sides lost a little but felt reletively comfortable. dont know if it was great to do but didnt have this site and my books to reference before i started.
i now have access to a few more items and would like to know what im missing or what do i still not understand. i want to put together a stack that a little more involved. but need guidance??

weeks
1-11 test enan 250 mg 2x week

1-4 dianabol 25 mg ed

7-11 winny or eq 50 mg ed


is this a suitable "first time stacking cycle"??


and more importantly the next part which is the hardest for me to figure out--every thing i read is different quantities at different times with different doses etc...



13-15 clomid or nolvadex??? dose???

1-11 armidex or liquidex dose ?????



would this cover everything. question marks represent contradictions in several threads so im not sure which ones and how much is best for this cycle and what are reasonable doses.
nolva for example ive read really only needs to be taken "if gyno" starts but in the sticky regarding pct it states a good pct will have nolva during weeks 3-8. so should i have it on hand and wait if gyno shows up or with this stack should i just work it in and run it?

so in basic i would love some of the feedback that has helped me in the past.


is the stack on top ok for a beginner (the right weeks and dosage amounts)?

And

Is my pct realistic or should I add or delete something??
Thanks again guys/ good or bad do what yall do best and let me know what ya think!!
bullet

 
Last edited:
just caught this and it seemed basic,reasonable and manageable.

would a simple cycle be better than my above cycle????
week
1-11 test enan 500mg once a week
1-4 dbol 25mg ed

with something this simple what could i run a good pct with.
?????? looking at nolva or clomid?? which one and how much?
or waht else if needed?

thanks bullet
 
looks like a good plan to me

i'd go with this...

weeks 1-10 test enan 500mg/wk
weeks 1-4 dbol 25mg/ed

for PCT i'd go with...

weeks 13-18 nolva 40,40,20,20,20,20/ed
weeks 13-15 HCG 5000iu, 5000iu, 2500iu/wk

just keep nolva on hand incase of gyno on cycle, maybe some letro too, if you wanted to you could add in some winny towards the end of your cycle on weeks 9-12 but i think the dbol/test stack would be plenty enough, that is pretty much what i'm gonna run as my 1st AS cycle, same doseages n' all
 
I would run HCG during the entire cycle vs using it for PCT
 
LAM said:
I would run HCG during the entire cycle vs using it for PCT
Click to expand...

what use is HCG during the cycle? i've heard HCG during can be overkill, best saved for PCT

when and how much HCG would you recommend on this cycle LAM?
 
I thought if you ran HCG too long anyway it did the actual opposite of it's original intention of halting or minimising natural shut down/suppression and actually causing it alongside the exogeneous testosterones etc. Would running HCG for eight weeks (as many have posted saying they'd start HCG in the 2nd or 3rd weeks of the cycle) contribute or cause the above problem then? I thought it would be best either to run it staggered or just at the end as PCT. If an eight week stint isn't long enough to cause shut down, then I guess we wouldn't have aproblem running it throughout the cycle too. For some cycles, with all the different hormones going on with the tests, HCG producing natural test and the Dbol etc, won't that get abit much on the body?
 
young d said:
what use is HCG during the cycle? i've heard HCG during can be overkill, best saved for PCT

when and how much HCG would you recommend on this cycle LAM?
Click to expand...

HCG during the cycle prevents testicular atrophy which makes for a more successfull PCT. personally I would rather prevent my nuts from shrinking then have to worry about getting them back to normal.

I run 500 iu's every 4-5 days during all cycles
 
I am running HCG throughout my entire cycle too. As far as using an aromatase inhibitor like letro or arimidex, letro has been said to be too strong and even arimidex will hinder your gains. Keep Nolva on hand the entire time. I have been told that it isn't hurting gains if you take small doses everyday to ward off gyno. I am taking 15mg/day.
 
phenominal guys much appreciated. ill take this and look to the books again for a bit.

still a little cofused whehther or not to run hcg all through or as pct etc.. but ill hit the books and see what i come up with.
thanks again.
bullet
 
IML Gear Cream!
Purdue Power said:
I am running HCG throughout my entire cycle too. As far as using an aromatase inhibitor like letro or arimidex, letro has been said to be too strong and even arimidex will hinder your gains. Keep Nolva on hand the entire time. I have been told that it isn't hurting gains if you take small doses everyday to ward off gyno. I am taking 15mg/day.
Click to expand...

so even a very low dose of letro 0.25mg eod will hinder gains? in what way?

why are you taking 15mg nolva ed? are you gyno prone or are you just taking it to be extra safe? will a dose of nolva say @ 10-20mg ed reduce bloat? nolva won't hinder gains then?
 
HCG costs me $5 a week and for me its not overkill, and likewise better to have no problem than to have to try and fix it later. Atrophy can become permanent, so leaving the problem unsolved is not wise.
 
So running HCG during the cycle for approx. eight weeks won't start to shut down your nuts along with the AS? Would taking 500iu's aweek be affective at halting nut atrophy/natural suppressiion?
How long after finishing the cycle would you continue to take HCG?
Is running nolva continuous throughout the cycle any good to reduce bloat/estrogen sides etc?
Cheers
 
HCG is to avoid atrophy, you are in HTPA suppression regardless of using HCG or not. You simply have the ability to mimick LH when your body is going to be putting out very little to zero on its own.

500iu a week? Maybe, maybe not. Some people do 250iu twice a week, I do 500iu twice a week because my amps are 5000iu and that stuff doesn't last forever in the fridge.
 
I wouldn't do any cycle without HCG during it. It is certainly possible to do too much, though. 250 iu every three days starting the second week works well for me. If they still shrink, go every other day until up to size.
 
young d said:
so even a very low dose of letro 0.25mg eod will hinder gains? in what way?

why are you taking 15mg nolva ed? are you gyno prone or are you just taking it to be extra safe? will a dose of nolva say @ 10-20mg ed reduce bloat? nolva won't hinder gains then?
Click to expand...
You need estrogen in your system to have a more anabolic environment. If you start taking estro out of the equation, you won't get as much out of everything. You just want to keep yourself below the gyno threshold. So the way I understand it(only from being told by trusted people here) since Nolva just blocks receptors and doesn't actually eliminate estrogen, it won't hinder your gains. 10-20mg ed will reduce bloat somewhat, but as soon as you stop dosing it, the bloat will all come back since the bloat is caused mostly by the estrogen and it will all still be in your system.
 
I dont buy into that loss of gains stuff at all. I know a guy that pulls in massive amounts of water on 15mg of dbol ED, is that what you call gains, a chipmunk face? So in his case, he would be losing "gains" by using an AI?

I always use one during my cycles and am not about to stop now.
 
Mudge said:
I dont buy into that loss of gains stuff at all. I know a guy that pulls in massive amounts of water on 15mg of dbol ED, is that what you call gains, a chipmunk face?
Click to expand...
:laugh: I love that guy.
 
He is the kind of guy who wont run dbol because of that, and wont ever touch more than 250mg of test a week. His favorite cycles would pretty much be 300 deca once a week and 100mg of winny ED (since he discovered how much a ripoff gym prices were).

Lots of guys at my old gym were all low dosers, there wasn't enough cash for running cycles like lots of internet people do. This guy was 5'7" 205 after a cut, not shredded but in good shape.
 
Purdue Power said:
You need estrogen in your system to have a more anabolic environment. If you start taking estro out of the equation, you won't get as much out of everything. You just want to keep yourself below the gyno threshold. So the way I understand it(only from being told by trusted people here) since Nolva just blocks receptors and doesn't actually eliminate estrogen, it won't hinder your gains. 10-20mg ed will reduce bloat somewhat, but as soon as you stop dosing it, the bloat will all come back since the bloat is caused mostly by the estrogen and it will all still be in your system.
Click to expand...

thanks PP

Mudge, you use letro right? what dose do u run? the only think making me think twice about running dbol right now is the bloat on my face, if its bad with 1-ad and 4-ad its gonna be a LOT worse with dbol :(

will nolva at 10mg ed be as good as letro (say at 0.25 eod) at stopping bloat?

for the guys doing there 1st/2nd cycles and who did PH before is this the first time your running HCG or did you run it previously when you did PH? would HCG be necessary for a 6 week stack of dbol and s1+?

thanks
 
IML Gear Cream!
young d said:
for the guys doing there 1st/2nd cycles and who did PH before is this the first time your running HCG or did you run it previously when you did PH? would HCG be necessary for a 6 week stack of dbol and s1+?

thanks
Click to expand...
I wouldn't do ANY cycle without HCG during it.
 
PirateFromHell said:
I wouldn't do ANY cycle without HCG during it.
Click to expand...

really??

did you run HCG on all your PH+PS cycles too then, or are you just refering to more lenthly AS cycles?

for a 6 week dbol+1test cycle could i just shoot hcg weeks 3 and 4 to prevent testicular atrophy, or would i carry it through to pct?
 
young d said:
really??

did you run HCG on all your PH+PS cycles too then, or are you just refering to more lenthly AS cycles?

for a 6 week dbol+1test cycle could i just shoot hcg weeks 3 and 4 to prevent testicular atrophy, or would i carry it through to pct?
Click to expand...
I didn't run it with my 20 day M1T/4-ad cycle and regreted it. Yes, even short cycles that shut you down. Aim for 250 iu every three days starting the second week and ending a week before pct with that cycle.
 
gococksDJS said:
I prefer 2 250mg shots as opposed to 1 500mg shot a week.
Click to expand...
agree. more stable levels
 
I dont really bloat off dbol, I know a guy that goes chipmunk but it doesn't happen to me, for me its for gyno purposes on test and keeping free T a bit higher. I am using low dose test right now though, so its not completely neccessary.

.1/4 of 2.5mg ED.
 
I never really got much bloat from the dbol. I held more water, but I just lost a little definition. It wasn't really that noticable to me, anyways.
 
update guys need a little tutoring!!
i recieved my shipment and some changes were made.


i have ready to run
test enan qv 250 = 30cc
nolvadex =890mg
oxavet qv (anavar) = 500mg
clomid =4350mg
d-bol =1000mg

the clomid is not "clomid" it is the off brand, the doc said they couldnt get "clomid" anymore but this new stuff was what everyone uses in its place (dont have the name for it anymore, but it is the same as what is pictured in the anabolic pics sticky)
sooo with these amounts im going to run

test 2cc/week weeks 1-11
d-bol 20mg/ed weeks 1-5
anavar?? only have 500mg how could i
incorporate into my cycle??
nolvadex??? when should i run ? during whole
cycle ?only for a few weeks at end??
only if gyno occurs??
clomid??? best advice with this cycle??

a little rushed in the purchasing and transporting but i think i covered the test d-bol and nolvadex. the anavar im short on so let me know if its usable. the clomid should be sufficient, just need to know dosages? really appreciate all the input.
bullet
 
what dosage did the dbol come in ?

I would save the anvar for later, the test dbol stack is good enough for a 1st cycle.
 
thanks lam

d-bol 10mg
ill hold on the anavar/ when would i be able to use it though? dont know if im planning another cycle anytime soon. can i use it alone later or does it need to be taken with a stacked cycle?


the big question??
nolvadex??? when should i run ? during whole
cycle ?only for a few weeks at end??
only if gyno occurs??
clomid??? best advice with this cycle??
thanks lam great with the quick come back!
bullet

your thoughts on the nolvadex and clomid dosage and for which weeks
 
split up the dbol with a 10 mg am and 10 mg pm dosage

anavar is so mild I don't really think it would do much good on top of the dbol and test, plus you wouldn't want to run 17aa's for 10 weeks straight.

for PCT I would keep it simple and use Nolvadex :

week 1 - 60 mg/ED
week 2 - 40 mg/ED
week 3-5 20 mg/ED
 
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