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A really serious question

FishOrCutBait

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Does this disturb any of you?

I said this about myself.

BTW, i was never taught a religion as a child. I found Christianity as I grew older.

"My faith helps to give me hope, it helps to give me direction, and helped shape a child with no idea what to think, or do, a child with no direction and nobody to direct him into a young man who is self motivated, and able to make his own path, and decisions...

Like I said,

FOR ME

had it not been for my faith, I would have found myself at the wrong end of the law many times before I would have even began to become a productive, useful human being.

I dont advocate forcing anything on anyone, except teaching children morals."

Does it matter what shapes somebody into a happy, mentally healthy, productive person?
 
Its too late and that is way too deep.

Just try and think about mudkips.
 
I have no religion yet I still strive to be a decent person, I may do some things that others may find deplorable but in the end I am not hurting anyone directly, of course we never really know how our actions can indirectly effect the world. You know the butterfly effect, some kid is chasing a butterfly when he runs into the road causing a buddist on a bicycle to swerve into traffic and a baptist redneck has to slam on his brakes. This causes the Amish guy to pull his horses up short and one of them shits in the road. A Jewish girl traveling the opposite direction sees this and pukes out of her window and it flies back smothering the windshield of a Muslim church van. The van launches over a curb hitting a junction box and down goes my elect
 
I think religion is a tool to be used or abused like anything else in the world.

Some people swear by a few glasses of wine a night to help them relax and de-stress, otherwise they would break down. There are other people who drink too much, go home, and beat their wife and kids.

Some people do the same with physical training. Whether it be the results you gain giving you a confidence boost or sense of acheivement, or the body's reponse to intense exercise, or just the fact that you have a regular hobby that you find fun and interesting. Others however, get obsessed and ruin their bodies through the misuse of performance enhancing drugs or inject sythol, and im sure there are people out there who only train for the purpose of making it easier to bully people.

Religion is the same. Sure there are people who take it too far like that one "Christian Church" where they preach "God Hates Fags" or "Thank God For Dead Soldiers", and there are Muslim extremists who blow themselves up to further their "religious" cause, but most people agree neither instances are following the religion at all and are denounced by their faiths entirely.

There are, however, millions of good loving people who draw strength and solace from their faith. It drives them to do good things, or go out of their way to help others when they really neednt. Perhaps they like the whole Church experience, and being part of something like that gives them a sense of identity and belonging that they havent found anywhere else in their lives.

At the end of the day, who really cares WHY or WHAT they believe? I personally dont think it matters one bit. Good people are good people whatever life choices they have made.
 
At the end of the day, who really cares WHY or WHAT they believe? I personally dont think it matters one bit. Good people are good people whatever life choices they have made.

And those who would be hypocrites, will be intolerant haters and bigots.
No matter how many boy scout dens they lead, or neighbors they smile at.

Its a thin line...

Embrace the ideas, not the beliefs
 
Sounds like a good supplement to me if it works for you, as long as you realize what the nature of relgion is and that is unprovable because if it was provable it would not be religion so by that logic if god is proven you can no longer believe in god and be religious, therefore you will turn atheist if you are ever right :D
 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]

It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
[SIZE=-1]-- Mark Twain, Letters From the Earth (1909?; published in 1962)[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]
The best minds will tell you that when a man has begotten a child he is morally bound to tenderly care for it, protect it from hurt, shield it from disease, clothe it, feed it, bear with its waywardness, lay no hand upon it save in kindness and for its own good, and never in any case inflict upon it a wanton cruelty. God's treatment of his earthly children, every day and every night, is the exact opposite of all that, yet those best minds warmly justify these crimes, condone them, excuse them, and indignantly refuse to regard them as crimes at all, when he commits them. Your country and mine is an interesting one, but there is nothing there that is half so interesting as the human mind.
[SIZE=-1]-- Mark Twain, Letters from the Earth

[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]... the swindle of life and the treachery of a God that can create disease and misery and crime -- create things that men would be condemned for creating-- that men would be ashamed to create.
[SIZE=-1]-- Mark Twain, quoted in Isabel Lyon's Journal (February 2, 1906), quoted from Barbara Schmidt, ed., "Mark Twain Quotations, Newspaper Collections, & Related Resources"[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]
 
I am happy you have faith, Fish. Faith is good. Belief in a higher power is good. Trying to live a better life is good. You set a great example, much like my new roommate who is a Christian. He is cool as hell, and we get along great. He doesn't force his religion down my throat, and I do not disrespect his.


Gazole pretty much nailed it. Religion is a tool to be used and misused. It all depends on the motives of the person using the religion. Why is relegion screwed up? Because, people are screwed up.

Now, faith on the other hand is always good. Faith doesn't make people hurt other people. Religion does, but faith is innocent. I lost my faith in Christianity during my early teens, now in my mid 20s, I am building a new faith, but not in religion, but faith in myself. I like that faith a lot more, because when I ask myself for something, I can actually deliver.
 
i think having faith is a really positive thing but i also believe in tempering religion with intelligence. a lot of the bible is pretty charles manson by any standards. i do believe there is something more than just this life and i think a lot of faiths have good things to offer man whether they are true or not. i also believe a lot of religions have been used to do horrendous things and to control people beyond all reason. the most important faith you can have is in yourself. strive to be a good person and to do the right thing no matter that it is often the harder path. in the end that is all that matters god or no god.
 
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Thank you guys, I guess some people just cant handle faith, or belief in a higher power and do whatever they can to talk you out of it.

My life, my business, etc.


Thanks guys :D
 
Quote: There is only one religion, though there are a hundred versions of it.
Author: George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950, Irish-born British Dramatist

I, for one, believe in a higher power, born from an experience during a car crash when i was younger. Does that give me faith? It does.
 
Blame the jews
 
Quote: There is only one religion, though there are a hundred versions of it.
Author: George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950, Irish-born British Dramatist

I, for one, believe in a higher power, born from an experience during a car crash when i was younger. Does that give me faith? It does.
I too believe in inertia... I also have a lot of faith in gravity...
 
My faith is second to nothing in my life. People twist it & use it for political reasons, but it's true intent is good, despite what anyone says.

Do I think the religious institutions have it right? Absolutely not.. Jesus Himself was killed for disagreeing with the Jewish leaders.

To me, the church is a guide. I live my life as a Catholic, and I do follow it's laws.. but they are not God.

As far as the Bible being outdated or too tough, I really don't think it is at all. Today's morals may be mainstream, but that doesn't make them right. In fact, I think today's society sucks, and in many cases Charles Manson-esque.

As far as your question, I like to think my faith guides everyone of my decisions. My family is Catholic, but I didn't come into my faith until after college... my sisters aren't really that religious at all. I do intend to follow my parents example with my children in that I will provide a Catholic education & upbringing, but not stand in their way to make their own decision.

A true religious upbringing.. not one just for "show" is essential for my children, in my personal opinion. I won't marry a non-Christian.
 
Faith is nothing to me in my life. People twist it & use it for political reasons.

Do I think the religious institutions have it right? Absolutely not.. Jesus Himself was killed for disagreeing with the Jewish leaders.

To me, the church is a power source and nothing more. I live my life as an atheist, and I follow ethical laws based on right and wrong ... not laws based on pleasing someone's idea of God.

As far as the work of fiction known as the Bible being outdated or too tough goes, I really don't think it has any relevance to me at all. The morals of today are mainstream, but that doesn't make them right. In fact, I think today's society sucks, and in many cases Charles Manson-esque.

As far as your question, I like to think every one of my decisions should be made outside of any faith ... but instead based on ethical and moral fortitude. My family is religious, but I didn't come into their faith at all.

A true religious upbringing whether for "show" or otherwise is not essential for children, in my personal opinion. There is too much fanaticism and blind discrimination as a result of organized religion that erodes good and fair judgment on complicated contemporary issues. Raising a child with a solid moral foundation based on right and wrong instead religious conviction will raise up a person capable of free thinking and is essential to our society's future.

I would marry Christian or a non-Christian as long as her beliefs didn't cause us issues in our lives together.
 
Faith is nothing to me in my life. People twist it & use it for political reasons.

Do I think the religious institutions have it right? Absolutely not.. Jesus Himself was killed for disagreeing with the Jewish leaders.

To me, the church is a power source and nothing more. I live my life as an atheist, and I follow ethical laws based on right and wrong ... not laws based on pleasing someone's idea of God.

As far as the work of fiction known as the Bible being outdated or too tough goes, I really don't think it has any relevance to me at all. The morals of today are mainstream, but that doesn't make them right. In fact, I think today's society sucks, and in many cases Charles Manson-esque.

As far as your question, I like to think every one of my decisions should be made outside of any faith ... but instead based on ethical and moral fortitude. My family is religious, but I didn't come into their faith at all.

A true religious upbringing whether for "show" or otherwise is not essential for children, in my personal opinion. There is too much fanaticism and blind discrimination as a result of organized religion that erodes good and fair judgment on complicated contemporary issues. Raising a child with a solid moral foundation based on right and wrong instead religious conviction will raise up a person capable of free thinking and is essential to our society's future.

I would marry Christian or a non-Christian as long as her beliefs didn't cause us issues in our lives together.

well piss on you! ;)
 
Raising a child with a solid moral foundation based on right and wrong instead religious conviction will raise up a person capable of free thinking and is essential to our society's future.

See this I really disagree with. Religion is being pushed out of everything while society's values have gone down the drain. Nobody can honestly deny the correlation.
 
See this I really disagree with. Religion is being pushed out of everything while society's values have gone down the drain. Nobody can honestly deny the correlation.
Not so my friend. Way back in the day you supported Bush as a moral and religious person. Do you still see him that way?
 
My reason for asking is that he is a role model for your kids if that's that case.
 
Not so my friend. Way back in the day you supported Bush as a moral and religious person. Do you still see him that way?

Absolutely. I always liked him, just didn't think he made a good president. But honestly, I've come home to the idea that history will prove that was he has done is right, and the Democrats are undeniably treasonous. I'm not aligning in his corner 100%, but I do fully support his actions in Iraq.

Lincoln was incredibly unpopular in his time, too. :)
 
funny thing is, the democrats & moveon.org tried so hard to convince Republicans how bad GWB & the GOP is that they've done the opposite to me: I actually call myself a Republican now & support them even more than before.

Way to Go moveon.org.. that 12 million was well spent!
 
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Absolutely. I always liked him, just didn't think he made a good president. But honestly, I've come home to the idea that history will prove that was he has done is right, and the Democrats are undeniably treasonous.

Lincoln was incredibly unpopular in his time, too. :)
If after all the unethical crap he has pulled you still refuse to see him for the lying criminal he is then we will still never have any end to any debate we would get into.

What follows is not my opinion. It's a part of the history of how Bush has molded our government to suit the needs of his cronies and reduced the ability of our government to serve its citizens. This list would be longer but it's late and I'm tired.

Bush apointments:

David Lauriski -- an ex-mining company executive --- was nominated to post of Assistant Secretary of Labor for Mine Safety and Health.

Dirk Arthur Kempthorne -- environmental groups characterized him as someone who has "almost always favored changing laws like the Endangered Species Act and the Safe Drinking Water Act to make them more favorable to commercial interests.

Lynn Scarlett as Undersecretary of the Interior. She believes in free market environmentalism and opposes recycling.

Gale Norton --- Secretary for the Department of the Interior from 2001 - 2006. Norton, a land development advocate and former lawyer at Mountain States Legal Foundation, an anti-environmental law firm, was strongly opposed by environmental groups and others largely because of her support for drilling in Alaska's delicate Arctic National Wildlife Refuge as a way to explore for oil and gas.

W. David Hager
-- a controversial doctor who has authored books about Christ's abilities to heal specific women's illnesses through prayer, to the Food and Drug Administration's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee. The committee, which plays an important role in shaping women's health policy, is slated to review hormone replacement therapy for menopausal women???an issue that some suspect conservatives want to hijack in order to cast doubt on the safety of birth-control pills. Hager, who assisted the Christian Medical Association with a "citizen's petition" asking the FDA to override the ruling that approved RU-486, has written that it is "'dangerous' to compartmentalize life into 'categories of Christian truth and secular truth'." It was also reported that Hager would not prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women in his private practice.

Jerry Thacker --Bush nominated an extremist who called AIDS the "Gay Plague" to the Presidential Advisory Commission on HIV and AIDS. He is a right-wing evangelical Christian who has called AIDS the "gay plague". Although Thacker withdrew his name from consideration on Jan. 23, shortly after his deplorable comments came to light, many questions remain about his nomination. Thacker???who attended Bob Jones University, which until recently banned interracial dating???has also called homosexuality a "deathstyle".

Bush's Iran-Contra Affair appointees:

1.) Elliott Abrams an assistant secretary of state under Reagan, pleaded guilty in 1991 to two counts of withholding evidence from Congress (i.e., lying) over his role in the Iran-Contra affair. Bush I pardoned him; Bush II has appointed him to the National SecurityCouncil as director of its office for democracy, human rights and international operations. The post requires no Senate approval.

2.) John Negroponte as ambassador to Honduras from 1981-85, covered up human rights abuses by the CIA-trained Battalion 316. He is Bush's choice for U.S. ambassador to the U.N. and, as Extra! went to press, was expected to clear Senate confirmation hearings.

3.) Admiral John Poindexter in Iran Contra Affair was found guilty of multiple felony counts for conspiracy, obstruction of justice, lying to Congress, defrauding the government, and the alteration and destruction of evidence, convictions reversed. Bush has appointed him Director of the Information Awareness Office.

Sources: Wiki, US office of budget management, US Dept of the Interior.

No person of ethical character would make these appointments when there are such obvious conflicts of interest between the people appointed and the needs of the American public.
 
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