Do you give a shit about a turtle or clean energy?

[juggernaut]

This by far one of the most retarded news stories ever published.







Solar Showdown in Calif. Tortoises' Desert Home

Dilemma in the desert: Developer, environmentalists face off over huge Calif. solar complex

By MICHAEL R. BLOOD Associated Press Writer

The Associated Press

LOS ANGELES


Environmentalists want a proposed solar-energy complex in the California desert relocated because they say it will destroy prime habitat for the desert tortoise and rare plants.
The Sierra Club and other groups say the project being pushed by BrightSource Energy should be moved closer to a freeway near the Nevada line.
The company is asking government regulators to approve the complex that would generate enough power each year for 142,000 homes.
It could be months before a decision is made. The case highlights tensions between wilderness conservation and the nation's quest for cleaner power.

Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Copyright © 2010 ABC News Internet Ventures

 

[suprfast]

The UC in Merced was pushed off because of Ferry shrimp. There is always something. I consider myself an environmentalist but sometimes its out of hand. If we dont find a way to get new energy Person X complains about Global warming etc... If we try then this happens.

 

[Luger77]

Global Warming..Big Lie

Global warming is a big lie. I took the "Going green" thing hook line and sinker until I found out the major companies involved(one of the heads is Al Gore) and the billions of dollars they will gain in the process changing more of the Constitution. Look up Conspiracy Theory Global Warming and tell me what you think. Ex-Minn Gov Jesse Ventura exposed this theory on TV recently as he did 9/11 and how all 4 plane recording boxes were found by feds with witnesses to back it up.

 

[Little Wing]

i like turtles.

 

[suprfast]

i like turtles.

turtle soup. TMNT FTW

 

[suprfast]

Global warming is a big lie. I took the "Going green" thing hook line and sinker until I found out the major companies involved(one of the heads is Al Gore) and the billions of dollars they will gain in the process changing more of the Constitution. Look up Conspiracy Theory Global Warming and tell me what you think. Ex-Minn Gov Jesse Ventura exposed this theory on TV recently as he did 9/11 and how all 4 plane recording boxes were found by feds with witnesses to back it up.

Good job making a completely new acct just to post that. It makes it harder for us to make fun of you when you post from your real acct.

 

[maniclion]

All the empty roofs in the world I don't see why we need to corrupt beautiful acres of wilderness for these solar "farms", I sell PV for a living I alway's give these newbie solar contractors a hard time when they start talking about clear cutting land for their "farm" projects, there is more money in putting it up on a huge warehouse or shopping center and charging the tenants a fee to use the power, it's called a Power Purchase Agreement and I have done a dozen or so, most of them I talked a new compnay out of a "farm" and into doing them instead....

 

[ALBOB]

Global warming is a big lie. I took the "Going green" thing hook line and sinker until I found out the major companies involved(one of the heads is Al Gore) and the billions of dollars they will gain in the process changing more of the Constitution. Look up Conspiracy Theory Global Warming and tell me what you think. Ex-Minn Gov Jesse Ventura exposed this theory on TV recently as he did 9/11 and how all 4 plane recording boxes were found by feds with witnesses to back it up.

 

[KelJu]

Global warming is a big lie. I took the "Going green" thing hook line and sinker until I found out the major companies involved(one of the heads is Al Gore) and the billions of dollars they will gain in the process changing more of the Constitution. Look up Conspiracy Theory Global Warming and tell me what you think. Ex-Minn Gov Jesse Ventura exposed this theory on TV recently as he did 9/11 and how all 4 plane recording boxes were found by feds with witnesses to back it up.

You are a moron. Why do you care what AL Gore's plans are and what Jesse Venture has to say. Neither of those men are scientist.

Maybe you should try to read more science journals and watch less TV if you want to talk about science.

 

[bandaidwoman]

What I really don't understand is why anyone would not want us to be less dependant on a finite resource controlled and administered by a part of the world that wants us dead. ( Yes, I know we can get oil from brazil etc. but then we go back to the "finite" resource)
So if you don't believe in global warning how about believing in gaining independance from other parts of the world for our huge energy addiction and finding these alternate sources of energery wether it is wind, solar, nuclear fission ( ideally fusion but that technology is far in the future)

 

[KelJu]

What I really don't understand is why anyone would not want us to be less dependant on a finite resource controlled and administered by a part of the world that wants us dead. ( Yes, I know we can get oil from brazil etc. but then we go back to the "finite" resource)
So if you don't believe in global warning how about believing in gaining independance from other parts of the world for our huge energy addiction and finding these alternate sources of energery wether it is wind, solar, nuclear fission ( ideally fusion but that technology is far in the future)

It is mind boggling that people can't see that cleaner renewable energy isn't only a good thing, but damn near necessary. If we devote a few decades to the technology, it will probably become cheaper than coal and oil.

I read that the payoff period for solar roofs is close to 20 years. Hey Manic, d o you agree with that assessment? My buddy also told me something similar. He lives in a house that is off the grid completely. It provides its own water and power. He says the current technology in solar cells don't last much longer than 20 years?

 

[juggernaut]

So, youre saying that the carbon emissions that we breathe in, that have been melting the polar caps, that have been killing species of animals and making acid rain is a big lie. Do us all a favor, shut the fuck up and really read newspapers, not smokinggun.com or mtv news you fucking twit.

As for turtles, I like em too, but if it comes to down to a turtle and solar energy, that fucking turtle will turn into a cigar holder for me.

Global warming is a big lie. I took the "Going green" thing hook line and sinker until I found out the major companies involved(one of the heads is Al Gore) and the billions of dollars they will gain in the process changing more of the Constitution. Look up Conspiracy Theory Global Warming and tell me what you think. Ex-Minn Gov Jesse Ventura exposed this theory on TV recently as he did 9/11 and how all 4 plane recording boxes were found by feds with witnesses to back it up.

 

[suprfast]

All the empty roofs in the world I don't see why we need to corrupt beautiful acres of wilderness for these solar "farms",

I like that.

 

[danzik17]

What I really don't understand is why anyone would not want us to be less dependant on a finite resource controlled and administered by a part of the world that wants us dead. ( Yes, I know we can get oil from brazil etc. but then we go back to the "finite" resource)
So if you don't believe in global warning how about believing in gaining independance from other parts of the world for our huge energy addiction and finding these alternate sources of energery wether it is wind, solar, nuclear fission ( ideally fusion but that technology is far in the future)

+1

Not only what you and Kelju have said, but mastering renewable technology would put us back as the #1 economy in the world without a question. What country WOULDN'T want to be energy independent? Every developed country in the world would be scrambling to buy or lease this technology from us. It would also create manufacturing jobs that are so sorely needed.

That and I believe that it would have a direct effect on wars and terrorism. Without oil revenues, many of these batshit insane countries would have no money. No money, no war, greatly reduced terrorism.

 

[danzik17]

My buddy also told me something similar. He lives in a house that is off the grid completely. It provides its own water and power. He says the current technology in solar cells don't last much longer than 20 years?

Does he have a breakdown of the average monthly cost for his setup compared to a normal "on the grid" one?

I've always been curious about that.

 

[Scout8847]

A lot of people just don't care about the fact we are running out of energy. They have the attitude that "We won't run out before I'm dead, so who cares?"

I'm not one of them

 

[maniclion]

I read that the payoff period for solar roofs is close to 20 years. Hey Manic, d o you agree with that assessment? My buddy also told me something similar. He lives in a house that is off the grid completely. It provides its own water and power. He says the current technology in solar cells don't last much longer than 20 years?

The smartest thing a person can do right now is install a Solar Thermal Hot Water system on their home. Just 2 or 3 of these panels and you can cut your electricity bill by 40-50%, for a measly $6000 or so. After tax credits it'll pay itself off in 3-6 years depending on your electric rates....we won't even discuss Solar Electric systems if someone doesn't heat their water by the sun's heat first.....

The Federal government will give you a tax break of 30% of what you spend on your Solar power, if you don't have a tax liability that high then what you do is buy it in portions to maximize your tax credit. Usually people buy a third of what they need the first year, then the other 2/3rds over the next 2 years. Here in Hawaii most can be paid off in under 10 years. We do have the highest utility rates though at .28 cents per kW hour....

As far as how long these systems will last it's hard to know now, the warranty for most modules is 25 years. That doesn't mean that at year 25 they just die, it just means that they guarantee maximum power output that long, you see silicon doesn't just stop working, it slowly loses it's power so they will still be cranking out electrons from photons well after 25 years....As far as they other components like the DC to AC Inverter they are warrantied for 10-15 years, but most of the top brands are sealed, so I think they should get a few more years. The thing is, I'm not worried about 20 years from now because by then this stuff will be so dirt cheap. I've been in the game 7 years now and the costs just keep plummeting, just last year we sold a 175 watt module for over $1000 and now this year we sell them for $775. Everywhere I go in Hawaii I see Solar Thermal Hot water panels and PV modules, it's reaally taking off out here.

 

[maniclion]

+1

Not only what you and Kelju have said, but mastering renewable technology would put us back as the #1 economy in the world without a question. What country WOULDN'T want to be energy independent? Every developed country in the world would be scrambling to buy or lease this technology from us. It would also create manufacturing jobs that are so sorely needed.

We are in the process of building more and more manufacturers in the US, their is one US company called Enphase that makes micro-inverters, these guys have taken the market by storm, we can't keep enough of their stuff in stock. Then there are companies like Outback, Midnite, Magnum, Evergreen, etc... It's been an exciting time for me and my company, so many eager people with all of their own reasons for wanting renewable energy, I have college professors, retirees, guys living on farms, family men, wealthy business men, backwoods ruffians, all types coming in to our place and preaching to me about how we can change the world....it's encouraging...

 

[DOMS]

So if you don't believe in global warning how about believing in gaining independance from other parts of the world for our huge energy addiction and finding these alternate sources of energery wether it is wind, solar, nuclear fission ( ideally fusion but that technology is far in the future)

That's the problem. When those who make decisions fall for anthropomorphic global warming you end up spending money on the wrong things and doing it the wrong way. The Kyoto Protocol is a prime example. What a load of shit.

 

[KelJu]

Does he have a breakdown of the average monthly cost for his setup compared to a normal "on the grid" one?

I've always been curious about that.

There is no monthly cost to operate. It was built into the home as part of the design. I think what you may be asking me is how much did it cost extra to implement these technologies when the home was built?

I don't know. Solar roofs are not cheap. Like I said before, I have read and heard from people who own them that the payoff period for the solar cells is pretty close to the lifespan of the solar cells, which was about 20 years. The water is collected on the roof from rain which is filtered through many cycles. The cleanest water, which is put through purifiers that make the water as pure as the designer waters you buy in the store, is your faucet and drinking water. That water is then filtered again and passes into a greenhouse that grows food. It filters again and goes to become shower water and toilet water. It is filtered for the last time to remove unsafe pollutants to the environment and passes back into the ground.

The home has batteries that store the power from sun to run the home at night and days of overcast.

 

[KelJu]

That's the problem. When those who make decisions fall for anthropomorphic global warming you end up spending money on the wrong things and doing it the wrong way. The Kyoto Protocol is a prime example. What a load of shit.

Anthropomorphic global warming? Are you insinuating that humans practices aren't part of the cause?

I'm not a climate expert either, but I do trust my ability to see biased information from unbiased information. Scientific publications that I trust point to humans as adding to a problem that would happen eventually with or without our environmental impact. However, we are causing it to happen much much sooner than it would have happened otherwise. Many of those scientific experts say that they can't prove humans are caused it, but they have strong evidence to support that we played a big part.

I have read many science journals lately about melting permafrost. I can't begin to go into it all, but essentially, we are a bolder teetering on the edge of a mountain right now. The permafrost is melting because of global warming. When the permafrost melts, it releases massive amounts of methane and other greenhouse gasses that increase global warming farther. This is a snowball gaining momentum that will destroy millions of species and possibly us.

Once it passes the point of return, we can go green all we want. It will have already been too late by then. It may be too late now. In my opinion, the cause of global warming is irrelevant anyway, because the solutions to reducing global warming are beneficial even if you take global warmign out of the discussion.

I want clean water that isn't polluted by power plants. I want airport blvd to not smell like a big ole fart everyday when I am sitting in bumper to bumper traffic. I want a car that doesn't cost me $4.00 per gallon to get me to work. I want to coexist with other species of animals rather than wipe them out. I want a home that can supplies its own energy rather than paying Alabama power $200 a month.

All of these things can be solved if we actually tried. There is nothing the United States can't do when we try. Its one of the few qualities that made the country great that it still possess. The solutions are already visible. The problem is there is no way for big business to fuck us out of money with these solutions. It will cost money at first. It will cost more than fossil fuels at first. But with trail and error, and time, the solutions will be better.

 

[maniclion]

There is no monthly cost to operate. It was built into the home as part of the design. I think what you may be asking me is how much did it cost extra to implement these technologies when the home was built?

I don't know. Solar roofs are not cheap. Like I said before, I have read and heard from people who own them that the payoff period for the solar cells is pretty close to the lifespan of the solar cells, which was about 20 years. The water is collected on the roof from rain which is filtered through many cycles. The cleanest water, which is put through purifiers that make the water as pure as the designer waters you buy in the store, is your faucet and drinking water. That water is then filtered again and passes into a greenhouse that grows food. It filters again and goes to become shower water and toilet water. It is filtered for the last time to remove unsafe pollutants to the environment and passes back into the ground.

The home has batteries that store the power from sun to run the home at night and days of overcast.

Most people who live off grid have their solar power systems paid off the instant they install them because it would generally cost twice as much to have the power utility run a line out to their home. The usual cost of offgrid systems here is $20,000-50,000 depending on how efficient the home is, they use propane for cooking, refrigeration, clothes dryers if it's a must have, and back-up to solar water heating, so they only need electricity for lights, tv and computer maybe a water pump if they have a well......they also have a generator for cloudy and rainy days..... Their are richer folks who have solar electricity running everything. I heard one guy tell me the utility wanted $40,000 to run a line 100 yards to his house

 

[peptides]

clean energy is good but the life of the turtles are more important than giving us a clean source of energy

 

[peptides]

They have the rights on that territory. They , as a breathing thing deserves to live in that place they call habitat and we don't have the rights to step on their rights.Humans don't like to be treated like a dog and so as the animals except dogs.

 

[juggernaut]

the last two posts are quite possibly the dumbest posts I've read in a while.

Thank you.

 

[DOMS]

Anthropomorphic global warming? Are you insinuating that humans practices aren't part of the cause?

I'm insinuating nothing. I'm flat out stating that I've never seen a credible study that shows anything like real proof that mankind is adding to the rising temperatures.

That chart that Al Gore showed about the causality of global temperature and CO2? It's complete crap. People (you in this case) talk about how CO2 controls the temperature, but that's not the relationship that the data shows. What it does show is that without man-made CO2, the temperature controls how much CO2 is in the air. CO2 tracks with the temp until humans dump tonnes of CO2 into the air. As CO2 skyrockets (by 100s of times) the temp meanders along in the same course it's had for millennia.

Scientific publications that I trust point to humans as adding to a problem that would happen eventually with or without our environmental impact.

You say this, and then you go on about how we can stop it if we just clean up our act. Which is nonsense. We can't stop it.

I was going to go on, by I'm tired of this. I'm tired of people not thinking. I'm tired of people buying into fashionable trends and throwing their minds out the window.

Meh.

 

[juggernaut]

DOMS not to call your bluff, but do you have any refutable proof that states Al Gore lied about that? Secondly, why would he lie?

 

[maniclion]

With all the suburban homes sprawling out across what was once farmland, they should toss the solar modules on those roofs to act as a heatshield to keep cooling bills down... It's senseless to waste land while millions of roofs sit out in the Sun baking. Just like all those multi-story buildings in the cities, they could build mini-gardens on each one and people would have a nice park right on top of their building.....

 

[juggernaut]

Great idea manic. they even make roof shingles that look a lot like shingles that are in fact, solar panels.

 

[maniclion]

Great idea manic. they even make roof shingles that look a lot like shingles that are in fact, solar panels.

Those things are inefficient, labor intensive, require too many holes in the roof and flat out suck for longevity, not to mention they produce heat making the attic space hotter because there is not air circulation to cool them, silicon in microchips are just like silicon in PV modules, they don't perform well in heat.....