theanimal2114
Registered
What do you guys think the best products would be for avoiding male pattern baldness while on cycle?
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Male Pattern Baldness Help
- Thread starter theanimal2114
- Start date
If you want oral taken product I rec dutast, but if you just want something you can use when say you get out of the sower as a topical. i would also rec spiro.
I have a bottle of dutast i may use soon since my hair seems to be going, thing is i already cut my hair bald/short and my head is not missshaped so im not all that worried about losing it ... but i cant lie Im looking at the bald spot near my forhead and its bugging me now! lol
I was wondering about testing maybe both of them. Anyone used both of these at same time? or even on their own (if so which did you find better?)
i will tell you what worked great for me and is easy and quick and cheap.i use rogaine foam genric takes 2 secs to put on and i shampoo using nizarol any dht blocking shampoo will work.i was thinning bad and now 3 weeks later while on tons of gear you can not see any of my scalp at all and i need a hair cutt now bad.i ordered finastride but have not even open the pack no need to.that foam rogain is cheap and easy and works.i paid 20 bucks will probally last 2 or 3months shampoo like 15 bucks i use only 1 or 2 a week so it will last damn near forever.takes 2 secs to put foam on can not even tell it is on there.
Propecia 1mg per day or proscar (same thing, generic) half tab EOD. Rogaine 2x per day mourning and afternoon and spiro shampoo. Great stack for hairloss.
It takes a while for Propecia to work so start it a couple month's early.
AugustWest
Registered
would taking oral DHT blockers for hairloss be a bad idea if your taking a DHT derivative AAS such as Proviron?
No, actually some use both on cycle to try and avoid hairloss issues.
Some have said It may lessin some of the growth effects from the aas, but i have not seen anything that says for sure. end fact people are still growing and if your hairloss is bad or you care that much, it may be worth using it along with some cycles.
but i have not done so myself (iv used nizrol before but it was more for the acne)
Yes actually. Proviron is DHT and taking oral DHT blocker's would do nothing for that drug. Oral DHT blocker's work by blocking the 5AR enzyme from converting Testosterone to DHT. Well Proviron is already DHT and you would be ingesting them. Thus propecia wouldn't do anything for you.
Provirion is bad for guys with MPB. Other bad ones are Tren and Winny. For some reason Anavar is light on the hair even though it's also DHT based.
You are right, i should have stated i ment for test and test based steroids. My bad.
On anadrol my hair fall out every time. Which how I knew the shit I just bought was bunk... That and I am losing weight from the EQ and not gaining shit from the drol. (gains are still good but now I have to wait for my new shit to come it) but back to topic 1mg propecia and nioxin made a HUGE difference. At one time you would see my scalp if my hair was wet now its full again.
yesir if people would just use these two they are a killer 1-2 punch. I have the 3 stage nioxin shampoo and conditioner. Work's fantastic along with minoxidil applied 2x per day.
MattPorter
Registered
Can you disclose the brand of 'fake' drol? I think I know a few knock off bunks too...
-Matt
MattPorter
Registered
Nioxin shampoo and conditoner
nizoral 2%
low dose topical spiro
Toco-8 --(yes, this stuff works)
-Matt
nizoral 2%
low dose topical spiro
Toco-8 --(yes, this stuff works)
-Matt
overburdened
Board Rep
spironolactone can give you gyno(not that it WILL, but it is highly possible.. kind of depending on the person, and how prone you are to it anyway)... dutasteride is an option.. as well as finasteride(but keep in mind, both of them lessen the amt of DHT in your system by blocking or inhibiting 5a-reductase... DHT gives the physique it's 'hard' appearance, and decreasing it lends to a 'soft' look...as well as, IMO, it hampers your gains slightly(not to a huge degree... but it will to some degree)... also, you would not want to take either of these leading up to a bbing or mens physique competition, as they both 'soften' you out, and you are aiming to 'harden' the look of your physique...
If you are willing to give up a small amt of your gains, and have a softer physique, these two meds will work(and it doesn't take much at all!!! more is NOT better with these two meds... they will lead to ED if taken in larger doses!!!) I have found .5mg ed or eod of finasteride to be sufficient to curb baldness, and sometimes even grow back some hair that you have lost... if you go over 1mg, you WILL have erectile problems!!! dutasteride works as well, but I have noticed the side effect profile to be a little more harsh with dutasteride, and it is easier to end up with ED issues, while using dutasteride(because it is stronger than finasteride)...
Now, if you want to keep your physique looking as good as you can year round, you can use minoxidil preparations that are topical... they don't seem to be quite as effective, but close(and you don't have any issues with ED, and you can keep the 'hardness' to your physique when using topical minoxidil preparations...)... there is another that is quite effective(and can be used with minoxidil) I cannot think of it off top of my head, but If OP would like me to figure out what it was, I will take the time to do so(I want to say it is ketoconozal... but I may be mistaken.. I could find it again, if I looked...) the two of those, topically, are probably very close to the results you would get from finasteride, without the issues that come with taking finasteride....
Just something to keep in mind... you can use things to negate the DHT to a degree, and they do work fairly well for retaining your hair... but there are always those damn side effects!..lol
Ohh I see how it is.....when I asked u u nay sayed them all. Closed case lol.
Now suddenly they Work and u dissect each one.
overburdened
Board Rep
it won't make any difference at all... as far as the proviron is concerned(and I don't personally think prov does much in the way of making your hair fall out(but I don't have any hair... so not positive... I did take proviron when I had hair and didn't notice any thinning due to it..)
the way those meds work is they block the 5a reductase of testosterone(and some others) to their DHT (counterparts)(test to dht, bold to dihydroboldenone, etc)... they do not do anything in the way of changing how a dht derived drug will work in your body...
so, in all reality, you could take the finast/dutast at a low dose(IMO 1mg is too high.. and not necessary, unless you are running upwards of 1g/wk of test... and it won't help with things like tren anyway..(tren WILL MAKE YOUR HAIR GO FROM YOUR HEAD TO YOUR BACK!!).. but you could take proviron at 50mg ed to combat the 'softness' that the finasteride or dutasteride will give your physique, without making the shedding problem worse...(it still isn't quite as good as DHT itself at hardening, but it is close, and you can keep your hair that way...)
overburdened
Board Rep
I nay sayed finasteride and dutasteride because they will inhibit gains to a degree... and they make you look soft...
I never said minoxidil shampoo wouldn't help you,did I? as well as the nizoral(that's the one I couldn't remember)...
anyway, If I said that they wouldn't work, I either misunderstood what you were asking , or you misunderstood my answer(either could have been the case...)...
so, text me.. what exactly you want to know bro.. I will be VERY clear.. so you can keep your long, flowing 'Fabio' hairdo... so all the gay guys keep hitting on you... I know you get all bent outta shape when they don't hit on you anymore... cause of that little bald, shiny thing on the back of your head..... don't worry, it just looks like you had a brain tumor removed, and the hair hasn't quite grown back over it yet...LMAO
Lol don't hate on my beautiful locks baldy. Lmao @ gay guys. I avoid the men's locker room at all costs at the gym. It's either old man ass and balls in display ....or Asians sniffing your boxers. Luckily not my boxers my buddies.
I'll text ya
overburdened
Board Rep
Lmao... did the asians mistake them for 10yr old girl panties or what?
hypo_glycemic
Registered
A Mach 3 turbo razor and shaving cream!!!!
MinMaxMuscle
Registered
Dutasteride. I noticed alot of hair thinning on a heavy cycle, which I suppose dutasteride has mitigated to a degree. Hair is still thinned to shit. Minoxidil didnt do shit, btw. Just another shampoo.
As per the comment made that Dutasteride will inhibit gains or soften your look, I didnt notice any of either.
As per the comment made that Dutasteride will inhibit gains or soften your look, I didnt notice any of either.
Jimmyinkedup
Registered
No..they wont ....
[h=2]Does taking a DHT blocker make your cycle less effective... Not really but yes.[/h]
JAMA. 2012 Mar 7;307(9):931-9.
Effect of testosterone supplementation with and without a dual 5α-reductase inhibitor on fat-free mass in men with suppressed testosterone production: a randomized controlled trial.
Bhasin S, Travison TG, Storer TW, Lakshman K, Kaushik M, Mazer NA, Ngyuen AH, Davda MN, Jara H, Aakil A, Anderson S, Knapp PE, Hanka S, Mohammed N, Daou P, Miciek R, Ulloor J, Zhang A, Brooks B, Orwoll K, Hede-Brierley L, Eder R, Elmi A, Bhasin G, Collins L, Singh R, Basaria S.
Source
Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine and Boston Medical Center, 670 Albany St, Boston, MA 02118, USA. bhasin@bu.edu
Abstract
CONTEXT:
Steroid 5α-reductase inhibitors are used to treat benign prostatic hyperplasia and androgenic alopecia, but the role of 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in mediating testosterone 's effects on muscle, sexual function, erythropoiesis, and other androgen-dependent processes remains poorly understood.
OBJECTIVE:
To determine whether testosterone's effects on muscle mass, strength, sexual function, hematocrit level, prostate volume, sebum production, and lipid levels are attenuated when its conversion to DHT is blocked by dutasteride (an inhibitor of 5α-reductase type 1 and 2).
DESIGN, SETTING, AND PATIENTS:
The 5α-Reductase Trial was a randomized controlled trial of healthy men aged 18 to 50 years comparing placebo plus testosterone enthanate with dutasteride plus testosterone enanthate from May 2005 through June 2010.
INTERVENTIONS:
Eight treatment groups received 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg/wk of testosterone enanthate for 20 weeks plus placebo (4 groups) or 2.5 mg/d of dutasteride (4 groups).
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
The primary outcome was change in fat-free mass; secondary outcomes: changes in fat mass, muscle strength, sexual function, prostate volume, sebum production, and hematocrit and lipid levels.
RESULTS:
A total of 139 men were randomized; 102 completed the 20-week intervention. Men assigned to dutasteride were similar at baseline to those assigned to placebo. The mean fat-free mass gained by the dutasteride groups was 0.6 kg (95% CI, -0.1 to 1.2 kg) when receiving 50 mg/wk of testosterone enanthate, 2.6 kg (95% CI, 0.9 to 4.3 kg) for 125 mg/wk, 5.8 kg (95% CI, 4.8 to 6.9 kg) for 300 mg/wk, and 7.1 kg (95% CI, 6.0 to 8.2 kg) for 600 mg/wk. The mean fat-free mass gained by the placebo groups was 0.8 kg (95% CI, -0.1 to 1.7 kg) when receiving 50 mg/wk of testosterone enanthate, 3.5 kg (95% CI, 2.1 to 4.8 kg) for 125 mg/wk, 5.7 kg (95% CI, 4.8 to 6.5 kg) for 300 mg/wk, and 8.1 kg (95% CI, 6.7 to 9.5 kg) for 600 mg/wk. The dose-adjusted differences between the dutasteride and placebo groups for fat-free mass were not significant (P = .18). Changes in fat mass, muscle strength, sexual function, prostate volume, sebum production, and hematocrit and lipid levels did not differ between groups.
CONCLUSION:
Changes in fat-free mass in response to graded testosterone doses did not differ in men in whom DHT was suppressed by dutasteride from those treated with placebo, indicating that conversion of testosterone to DHT is not essential for mediating its anabolic effects on muscle.
Effect of testosterone supplementation with and without a dual 5α-reductase inhibitor on fat-free mass in men with suppressed testosterone production: a randomized controlled trial.
Bhasin S, Travison TG, Storer TW, Lakshman K, Kaushik M, Mazer NA, Ngyuen AH, Davda MN, Jara H, Aakil A, Anderson S, Knapp PE, Hanka S, Mohammed N, Daou P, Miciek R, Ulloor J, Zhang A, Brooks B, Orwoll K, Hede-Brierley L, Eder R, Elmi A, Bhasin G, Collins L, Singh R, Basaria S.
Source
Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine and Boston Medical Center, 670 Albany St, Boston, MA 02118, USA. bhasin@bu.edu
Abstract
CONTEXT:
Steroid 5α-reductase inhibitors are used to treat benign prostatic hyperplasia and androgenic alopecia, but the role of 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in mediating testosterone 's effects on muscle, sexual function, erythropoiesis, and other androgen-dependent processes remains poorly understood.
OBJECTIVE:
To determine whether testosterone's effects on muscle mass, strength, sexual function, hematocrit level, prostate volume, sebum production, and lipid levels are attenuated when its conversion to DHT is blocked by dutasteride (an inhibitor of 5α-reductase type 1 and 2).
DESIGN, SETTING, AND PATIENTS:
The 5α-Reductase Trial was a randomized controlled trial of healthy men aged 18 to 50 years comparing placebo plus testosterone enthanate with dutasteride plus testosterone enanthate from May 2005 through June 2010.
INTERVENTIONS:
Eight treatment groups received 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg/wk of testosterone enanthate for 20 weeks plus placebo (4 groups) or 2.5 mg/d of dutasteride (4 groups).
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
The primary outcome was change in fat-free mass; secondary outcomes: changes in fat mass, muscle strength, sexual function, prostate volume, sebum production, and hematocrit and lipid levels.
RESULTS:
A total of 139 men were randomized; 102 completed the 20-week intervention. Men assigned to dutasteride were similar at baseline to those assigned to placebo. The mean fat-free mass gained by the dutasteride groups was 0.6 kg (95% CI, -0.1 to 1.2 kg) when receiving 50 mg/wk of testosterone enanthate, 2.6 kg (95% CI, 0.9 to 4.3 kg) for 125 mg/wk, 5.8 kg (95% CI, 4.8 to 6.9 kg) for 300 mg/wk, and 7.1 kg (95% CI, 6.0 to 8.2 kg) for 600 mg/wk. The mean fat-free mass gained by the placebo groups was 0.8 kg (95% CI, -0.1 to 1.7 kg) when receiving 50 mg/wk of testosterone enanthate, 3.5 kg (95% CI, 2.1 to 4.8 kg) for 125 mg/wk, 5.7 kg (95% CI, 4.8 to 6.5 kg) for 300 mg/wk, and 8.1 kg (95% CI, 6.7 to 9.5 kg) for 600 mg/wk. The dose-adjusted differences between the dutasteride and placebo groups for fat-free mass were not significant (P = .18). Changes in fat mass, muscle strength, sexual function, prostate volume, sebum production, and hematocrit and lipid levels did not differ between groups.
CONCLUSION:
Changes in fat-free mass in response to graded testosterone doses did not differ in men in whom DHT was suppressed by dutasteride from those treated with placebo, indicating that conversion of testosterone to DHT is not essential for mediating its anabolic effects on muscle.
I had my blood tested for DHT while being on Finasteride for 6 months. I took 2.5mg per day and my level was 6.9 on a 30-80 scale. I did notice a slightly softer look with this low DHT and slight sexual sides. I am now taking only 1.25mg E3D (.41mg per day) and will retest in a few month's. Since lowering the dose I notice no sexual sides and soft look is less noticeable.
But it does work for hairloss. My hair looks a ton thicker than it did before and it regrew to a degree. I also use minoxodill x2 per day along with noxin shampoo and azelic acid topical.
But it does work for hairloss. My hair looks a ton thicker than it did before and it regrew to a degree. I also use minoxodill x2 per day along with noxin shampoo and azelic acid topical.
overburdened
Board Rep
That's pretty low DHT numbers! you should be closer to the normal range if you aren't noticing sexual sides now.... that sucks.. I don't think my hair is worth having a limp dick all the time!
MattPorter
Registered
So topical minoxidil will NOT impede DHT hardening effects on body and sex drive? How do we know this? any studies to validate or just assumption due to the topical not being prone to percutaneous absorption.
I mean, some systemic effect should be seen through entering the follicle.
Interesting...
-Matt
I mean, some systemic effect should be seen through entering the follicle.
Interesting...
-Matt
Jimmyinkedup
Registered
You lost me Matt?
Most of this thread was pertaining to finasteride and dutasteride unless i missed something.
Also minoxidil is not a dht or androgen inhibitor or blocker ..its a vasodialator... so id suspect it has zero impact at all on the things you mentioned.
cicantrix
Elite Member
Correct. Originally manufactured for use as a hypotensive agent.
As for best products:
2.5mg finasteride every three days
5% minox with 5% A. Acid solution applied twice daily.
If you play your cards right you can even get prescribed propecia for free if you can get your physician to prescribe it for you for prostate problems.
I was able to get a lot of of it for the price of my insurance rx ($25), they covered it.
I was able to get a lot of of it for the price of my insurance rx ($25), they covered it.
theanimal2114
Registered
WOW, thanks for all the input guys. Ok so what I'm going to do is get is
1. Topical Spiro
2. Nioxin Starter kit 5
I'm thinking of also getting finasteride, but I looked at the possible side effects and im not sure. Did anyone have a bad experience with finasteride? Should i even use it or will the spiro and nioxin be good enough?
Finasteride may cause side effects. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:
1. Topical Spiro
2. Nioxin Starter kit 5
I'm thinking of also getting finasteride, but I looked at the possible side effects and im not sure. Did anyone have a bad experience with finasteride? Should i even use it or will the spiro and nioxin be good enough?
Finasteride may cause side effects. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:
- inability to have or maintain an erection
- decreased sexual desire
- problems with ejaculation (including decreased volume of ejaculate)
- pain in the testicles
- depression
- changes in the breasts such as increased size, lumps, pain, or nipple discharge
- rash
- itching
- hives
- swelling of the lips and face
- difficulty breathing or swallowing
