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10,943 reasons France should support the United States

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Originally posted by RCfootball87
can you prove without a doubt that iraq was? thats the way american justic works last time i checked: innocent utnil proven guilty, the other way would be called socialism.

I never claimed they were. But you claimed they absolutely were not, so you have to show your proof. And answering a question with a question tends to elude that proof doesn't exist and it's merely an opinion, not fact, which is being presented.

during clinton's presidency we bombed an aspirin factory killing many innocent people, and no terrorist, so he could take america's sick little minds off another one of his sex scandals.

What is the purpose of this statement?

and others are saying they shouldn't. do you realize what you are saying when you say they agreed to comply? they dind't agree to shit, they were forced, they had no military and God knows what we would have done if they refuse to sign the treaty. telling someone sign or be killed isn't diplomacy, its a form of extortion, illegal in all 50 states.

Once again, you're implying a nation run by a dictator is somehow privy to the rights of the Citizens of the United States of America. It signed a treaty. It is also a member of the United Nations. It has certain responsibilities to live up to as a member of the United Nations. That's what happens in war. Iraq invaded a, to use your own words, "defenseless" nation, and the we responded to the aid of that nation. As the agressor, and after getting its ass kicked, Iraq signed the treaty. It's as simple as that. Please, stop trying to make Saddam Hussein out to be some little retarded boy being made fun of by his classmates. Him and his associates know damn well what they are doing and the consequences of those actions.

their weapon are outdated peices of shit that couldn't hit the united states if they wanted to. you wanna tell me how they're going to deliver a weapon of mass destruction 10,000 miles, other than through the use of terrorists.

Hear that? It's the sound of 4 planes which don't exist anymore because they were used as weapons by a group of scraggly terrorists. It's been proven that it doesn't take a whole lot of military might to wreak havoc on the homeland of the United States of America. If Saddam desired, he could very easily break stuff here. But it's not just the United States whom he threatens. It's his own people and other nations (see Kuwait). In this case Saddam Hussein is the bad guy, not us.

iraq causes threats to the u.s. like flies cause garbage.

Anytime a country is an agressor against a country which the United States holds as a friend, it's a threat. Scenario: You're walking down the street with your friends, some big bad dude comes up and starts pummeling your tiniest friend, do you just stand back and chill because the big bad dude isn't a threat to you? Of course not. You get in there and knock his ass out to save your friend.
 
Originally posted by RCfootball87
we're not smart, educationally or otherwise. we're internationaly bullie, essentially the ultimate international terrorists


After that statement, YES I question your patriotisim......
 
Hmmmm...................Looks like I've made myself a liar. On Thursday I said I'd be back to re-address this issue, I've changed my mind. It's painfully obvious that both sides see the world in a much different way and to continue trying to convince others that this war is the right thing to do would be a waste of my time. At this point I would ask only that once the bombs start falling and people start dying please, if you've ever loved this country, stop the debate. Whether you agree or disagree doesn't matter at that point, the only thing you'll do by continuing to complain and protest is demoralize the very people you SAY you support, the troops. I may or may not be one of the troops by the time all is said and done but I do speak from past experience when I say it hurts to think people don't respect the sacrifices you make for their freedom. I keep hearing the same argument over and over again, "I support our troops but this war is completely wrong. And don't tell my to keep it to myself, I have a right to protest." Yes, you have every RIGHT to protest, that's what the troops are protecting, your RIGHTS. What I never hear about though are your RESPONSIBILITIES. It's your RESPONSIBILITY to be a good citizen, and that includes supporting the troops by NOT making them feel like their sacrifices are for naught. Again please, whether you agree with the war or not, once it starts stop the bickering and show your support. Thanks :thumb:
 
Good post, bud-

CNN is on now....interesting watching.
 
The war, anti-war debate is a double edged sword, IMHO.

If we do nothing and have a terrorist set a nuke off in this country some would be crying "Why didn't the goverment do something to stop it?"

If we try to stop them from doing such things, which will certainly involve incursions and in some cases war, then some start saying "No War".

You can't have it both ways.
 
Thought this would be agood place to post this..


Last week, the Shelby County, Alabama Legislative Delegation hosted a "Stand Up for America Rally." More than 1,200 people attended including featured speakers Chief Justice Roy Moore, Adjutant General Mark Bowen and State Auditor Beth Chapman. Attached is a copy of Mrs. Chapman's speech, which resulted in five standing ovations, tremendous applause and an encore. It's a short read and well worth it. I hope you enjoy it as we continue to "Stand up for America!"

"Stand Up for America Rally Speech" By: Beth Chapman

I'm here tonight because men and women of the United States military have given their lives for my freedom. I am not here tonight because Sheryl Crowe, Rosie O???Donnell, Martin Sheen, George Clooney, Jane Fonda or Phil Donahue, sacrificed their lives for me.

If my memory serves me correctly, it was not movie stars or musicians, but the United States Military who fought on the shores of Iwo Jima, the jungles of Vietnam, and the beaches of Normandy.

Tonight, I say we should support the President of the United States and the U.S. Military and tell the liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippy, tie-dyed liberals to go make their movies and music and whine somewhere else.

After all, if they lived in Iraq, they wouldn't be allowed the freedom of speech they're being given here today. Ironically, they would be put to death at the hands of Sadam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden.

I want to know how the very people who are against war because of the loss of life, can possibly be the same people who are for abortion?

They are the same people who are for animal rights but against the rights of the unborn.

The movie stars say they want to go to Iraq and serve as ???human shields??? for the Iraqis. I say let them buy a one-way ticket and go.

No one likes war. I hate war! But the one thing I hate more is the fact that this country has been forced into war???innocent people have lost their lives - - and there but for the grace of God, it could have been my brother, my husband, or even worse my own son.

On December 7, 1941 , there are no records of movie stars treading the blazing waters of Pearl Harbor.

On September 11, 2001 ; there are no photos of movie stars standing as ???human shields??? against the debris and falling bodies ascending from the World Trade Center. There were only policemen and firemen - -underpaid civil servants who gave their all with nothing expected in return.

When the USS Cole was bombed, there were no movie stars guarding the ship - - where were the human shields then?

If America's movie stars want to be human shields, let them shield the gang-ridden streets of Los Angeles, or New York City, let them shield the lives of the children of North Birmingham whose mothers lay them down to sleep on the floor each night to shelter them from stray bullets.

If they want to be human shields, I say let them shield the men and women of honesty and integrity who epitomize courage and embody the spirit of freedom by wearing the proud uniforms of the United States Military. Those are the people who have earned and deserve shielding!

Throughout the course of history, this country has remained free, not because of movie stars and liberal activists, but because of brave men and women who hated war too. However, they lay down their lives so that we all may live in freedom. After all ??? ???What greater love hath no man, that he lay down his life for his friend,??? or in this case a country.

We should give our military honor and acknowledgment and not let their lives be in vain. If you want to see true human shields, walk through Arlington Cemetery. There lie human shields, heroes, and the BRAVE Americans who didn't get on television and talk about being a human shield - they were human shields.

I thank God tonight for freedom - - those who bought and paid for it with their lives in the past - - those who will protect it in the present and defend it in the future.

America has remained silent too long! God-fearing people have remained silent too long!

We must lift our voices united in a humble prayer to God for guidance and the strength and courage to sustain us throughout whatever the future may hold.

After the tragic events of Sept. 11th, my then eleven -year-old son said terrorism is a war against us and them and if you're not one of us, then you're one of them.

So in closing tonight, let us be of one accord, let us stand proud, and let us be the human shields of prayer, encouragement and support for the President, our troops and their families and our country.

May God bless America, the land of the free, the home of the brave and the greatest country on the face of this earth!
 
Originally posted by RCfootball87
you would know, since you live inside my head. what hell kind of statement is that? just cause im 15 doens't mean i dont know more about politics and world affairs than 90% of americans.
Yes it does......you're a child................now go play with your army men!!:laugh:
 
Originally posted by dg806
Yes it does......you're a child................now go play with your army men!!:laugh:

This type of thing is unnecessary and uncalled for, from both sides. You prove no point other than an ineptitude at debating your position and rebuting the opposition. It bugs me a great deal when a person does not respond with something to shoot down the other sides position, but responds with something to shoot down the other side. It serves no purpose.

I'm sure my words are lost here, though.
 
Originally posted by Pianomahnn
This type of thing is unnecessary and uncalled for, from both sides. You prove no point other than an ineptitude at debating your position and rebuting the opposition. It bugs me a great deal when a person does not respond with something to shoot down the other sides position, but responds with something to shoot down the other side. It serves no purpose.

I'm sure my words are lost here, though.

Pianomahnn,
I'm not speaking for DG, but I'm sure he is just as frustrated as I am with all the left thinking people here. You know as well as I do their argument has no merit. I personally applaud the fact that you can keep your wits about you and always reply with something insightfull.
 
In my mind I set this utopian world of debate. A world where people debate facts with facts, not opinions and name calling.

Sometimes I just get angry at it all. And yes, I have commited name calling, but only when called names first (I think :p ) .

Feh, it doesn't matter, really.

And you are correct, the arguments tend to have no merit, mainly because the arguments are based on speculation and opinion, not fact and truth. It's why I ask for proof. Show me why I should believe your position and not the one I currently hold. Don't say "You're wrong! And dumb! And just a non-free thinking fool!" That has no way of proving a point.

he he he. . .king of the hill is on tv. :D
 
Originally posted by ALBOB
Again please, whether you agree with the war or not, once it starts stop the bickering and show your support. Thanks :thumb:

For the record:

1. If the US goes to war:

I will support the troops.
I will respect that they are fighting for my freedoms.
I will respect the risks they take for my sake.
I hope the war is quick and uneventful.
I hope they do not have to pay for this mess with their lives.
I will welcome them home with open arms.


2. That said:

I lean to the right. I am not a tree hugger. I do not think this or any other war is 'wrong'. Conflict in one form or another is and will always be neccessary. Absolute right and wrong is for comic books and does not apply to the real world. I think the war is a mistake, or at best an extremely risky endevour, for econimc, social and political reasons. I hope I'm completely wrong in my OPINION (because not a single one of us knows the complete facts, not even George W) and everything is peachy keen by next year.

And Albob I never ever mix 1 and 2 up so I'd like people to stop the 'I-disagree' to 'you-think-our-soildiers-are-doing-something-bad' leap. It's a desparate oversimplification of an extremely complex and important political issue. They are just doing their duty. THEY HAVE ASOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS DEBATE.
 
Originally posted by IPMC
Pianomahnn,
I'm not speaking for DG, but I'm sure he is just as frustrated as I am with all the left thinking people here. You know as well as I do their argument has no merit. I personally applaud the fact that you can keep your wits about you and always reply with something insightfull.
Yep, I'm finished arguing. This guy evidently has no idea wtf he is talking about. How can he at 15?? The only opinions you have at that age are the one's your told! I do commend him on trying though. He's just on the wrong side. His parents or teachers are rubbing off. PM, I can talk till I'm blue in the face and debate till doomsday, but it will not change anyone's opinion. In time and not very long, they will see we were right!!!:thumb: I have very strong beliefs PM and it pisses me off that people can be so nieve!
 
Originally posted by dg806
Yep, I'm finished arguing. This guy evidently has no idea wtf he is talking about. How can he at 15?? The only opinions you have at that age are the one's your told! I do commend him on trying though. He's just on the wrong side. His parents or teachers are rubbing off. PM, I can talk till I'm blue in the face and debate till doomsday, but it will not change anyone's opinion. In time and not very long, they will see we were right!!!:thumb: I have very strong beliefs PM and it pisses me off that people can be so nieve!

i was gonna say my goodbyes too but im pissed now beacuse of this statement. first off, i got to a conservative private school where every foolish teacher is pro war. along with my mother who is also pro war. my father is anti war. i hear both sides of every argument and i decide for myself. whether you did or not at the age of fifteen is your buisness but what right do you having never met me to tell me that im just regurtating propaganda spewed at me by my supposedly all knowing authority figures? im one of the only people in my class that is anti war, so this has nothing to do with friends, im obviously being influenced by no one, and your statement is total bullshit, considering you dont know the facts. and for the record im an extreme right wing, extremely pro-gun, anti abortion, anti- homosexuality individual. go put a flag on your truck, drink a beer, and put on a few more pounds watching the NCAA tournament, but dont you dare tell me what i know about politics and where i get my opinions from, cause thats downright communist.
 
alright, bush is pretty much saying he's gonna start this thing. i'm leaving this debate. thanks to pianomah, ipmc, burner, albob, stickboy, yanack, mma, the berg master, dg806, and everyone else who participated in this debate. im leaving now,and whatever happens i support our troops. hope your half ass excuse for a government doesn't get you killed:( . nice debating guys, no hard feelings to anyone:thumb:
 
Originally posted by RCfootball87
i was gonna say my goodbyes too but im pissed now beacuse of this statement. first off, i got to a conservative private school where every foolish teacher is pro war. along with my mother who is also pro war. my father is anti war. i hear both sides of every argument and i decide for myself. whether you did or not at the age of fifteen is your buisness but what right do you having never met me to tell me that im just regurtating propaganda spewed at me by my supposedly all knowing authority figures? im one of the only people in my class that is anti war, so this has nothing to do with friends, im obviously being influenced by no one, and your statement is total bullshit, considering you dont know the facts. and for the record im an extreme right wing, extremely pro-gun, anti abortion, anti- homosexuality individual. go put a flag on your truck, drink a beer, and put on a few more pounds watching the NCAA tournament, but dont you dare tell me what i know about politics and where i get my opinions from, cause thats downright communist.

1) No one is "pro" war. Those who you consider "pro-war" are most likely pro-action, a stance the a number of nations which are members of the UN have neglected to take.

2) You have not discussed anything which I have asked of you. You have not presented facts to support your cause. And in the above quoted post, you claim you're being influenced by no one. Why then, are your "reasons" the same ones being plastered across the world by the numerous anti-war activists? Why then are non of your reasons original ones?

Please, as the only person here who hasn't called you names or insulted you, hold an open discussion with me. If you're sound in your position and the facts supporting it, you should have no problem brining those to light, and perhaps show others why you're right and they're wrong.

I suggest you take me up on this offer and show all the naysayers you're not just some uneducated teen. Show them you actually know what you're speaking of. Even if you were to fail miserably in your positional defense, it will show you're capable of debate in a manner which consists not of name calling and petty attacks, but of factual, educated, and rational conversation.
 
Originally posted by Pianomahnn
1) No one is "pro" war. Those who you consider "pro-war" are most likely pro-action, a stance the a number of nations which are members of the UN have neglected to take.

2) You have not discussed anything which I have asked of you. You have not presented facts to support your cause. And in the above quoted post, you claim you're being influenced by no one. Why then, are your "reasons" the same ones being plastered across the world by the numerous anti-war activists? Why then are non of your reasons original ones?

Please, as the only person here who hasn't called you names or insulted you, hold an open discussion with me. If you're sound in your position and the facts supporting it, you should have no problem brining those to light, and perhaps show others why you're right and they're wrong.

I suggest you take me up on this offer and show all the naysayers you're not just some uneducated teen. Show them you actually know what you're speaking of. Even if you were to fail miserably in your positional defense, it will show you're capable of debate in a manner which consists not of name calling and petty attacks, but of factual, educated, and rational conversation.
Now you see why I'm so frustrated?? I think I proved my points on my comments, even though I may have went too far with them.
 
Originally posted by Pianomahnn
1) No one is "pro" war. Those who you consider "pro-war" are most likely pro-action, a stance the a number of nations which are members of the UN have neglected to take.

2) You have not discussed anything which I have asked of you. You have not presented facts to support your cause. And in the above quoted post, you claim you're being influenced by no one. Why then, are your "reasons" the same ones being plastered across the world by the numerous anti-war activists? Why then are non of your reasons original ones?

Please, as the only person here who hasn't called you names or insulted you, hold an open discussion with me. If you're sound in your position and the facts supporting it, you should have no problem brining those to light, and perhaps show others why you're right and they're wrong.

I suggest you take me up on this offer and show all the naysayers you're not just some uneducated teen. Show them you actually know what you're speaking of. Even if you were to fail miserably in your positional defense, it will show you're capable of debate in a manner which consists not of name calling and petty attacks, but of factual, educated, and rational conversation.

sure i'll do it, but how do you make like 4 separate quotes in one post? it makes it difficult for me to reply to your posts cause i can only sue block quotes.
 
[.quote]
yada yada yada
[./quote]

YOUr StufF h3r3

[.quote]
my ninja goodness!!!
[./quote]

Remove the . in those vb code tags. :)
 
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Originally posted by RCfootball87
yes, you are ebing prejudice refering to a WIDE group of people as "they". and, doesn't that sound a lot like what the pilgrims of this country did to the indians? then a efw years later we slaughtered thme and took their land. i will shoot down every point you make about history, so i suggest you stop.


How about forget history and think about today and tomorrow? :shrug:
 
well, I caught Bush's speech last night on my way out of work. I was impressed with what he had to say.
I think it was logical and to the point. I am glad that he also addressed the Iraqi people, telling then that we, (The US and coalition forces actually jumping on board) will be going for soddam and sons, not anyone else. Please refrain from fighting and you will not be harmed.

I know that that will not happen in large numbers, but it would be nice...
 
hey....you're quoting...my quote...
:)
What's up, IPMC?
Got a nice little blizzard bewing up outside...almost slid my car into a curb turning into the side street where I work...the good news: Didn't spill a drop of coffee!
:)
 
Originally posted by Burner02
well, I caught Bush's speech last night on my way out of work. I was impressed with what he had to say.
I think it was logical and to the point. I am glad that he also addressed the Iraqi people, telling then that we, (The US and coalition forces actually jumping on board) will be going for soddam and sons, not anyone else. Please refrain from fighting and you will not be harmed.

I know that that will not happen in large numbers, but it would be nice...

I like the fact that he noted that the UN was Useless.
 
yeah, that we gave them all opportunities to step up to the plate and do their responsibility, yet did not.
 
Originally posted by david
How about forget history and think about today and tomorrow? :shrug:

That's a horrible idea.

Forgetting history is #1 on a list of bad things to do.
 
I may be wrong....(like that's ever happened beofre..)
but I think dave was talking about this thread's history? Not history in general.
What's that saying:
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it?

or something like that?
 
"Saboteur" and "traitor" are French words. Go figure.
 
Et Douche?
 
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