Continuing orals if liver values are fine?

[Pumped340]

So the first time I used Super-DMZ without much liver support my AST and ALT came back terrible, ~10-12x the high range values. But the last 2 times I have used orals were Super-DMZ 2.0 and MDrol and amazingly after 3 weeks of each (separate times) my liver values came back completely normal. The only difference was I was using Milk Thistle and Liv52. This seems great to me as lowered HDL and raised liver enzymes are my 2 main concerns with orals and this eliminates one of them. Total cholesterol and LDL were both low as well but HDL was 21.

In any case, I'm wondering, I just finished the MDrol on 4/10.....been on just Mast at 700mg the last week with 1.25-2.5mg letro ED because of some gyno issue but am feeling achy and losing size and strength. I have a vacation in 4 weeks so could I take do another 4 weeks of Super-DMZ 2.0 starting this weekend and ending right before the vacation since liver was fine? Right now I'm losing size and strength so quickly I'll be the same size I was 2 summers ago at this rate unless something changes, but due to the gyno issue I'm thinking it might be best to avoid aromatizeable compounds for the time being.

 

[s2h]

why would you run letro with mast and super-dmz..no wonder you feel like crap and size is dropping...

 

[Pumped340]

why would you run letro with mast and super-dmz..no wonder you feel like crap and size is dropping...

Yea it sucks, but I developed a little extra gyno recently from low dose tren. I don't know how, I was taking caber 0.25mg 2x/week and E2 was in the teens so I really don't get how it could even form, but right now I'm trying to get rid of it so estrogen is tanked :\

Any thoughts on continuing orals with only a 10 day break or so? I would add back in 500-1000mg test but with the aromatization I am scared about my gyno and honestly with E2 so crushed I don't know if anything is going to help gains much unfortunately :\

 

[dieseljimmy]

You ride a bike?
Hospital wobble is a situation where your wheel jerks one way and you overcompensate and you get into this repetitive back and forth steering and counter steering. It's generally a very bad thing and you want to start slowing down immediately because your probably going to crash.

Don't try to repair any side too hard. Work your way into and out of sides. Otherwise you get this knee jerk reaction to address a side which causes another side. letro/mast/ dmz doesn't really make sense and I think you got there but reacting. Slow down get your shit right and start over.

For the record if your on a sport bike and prepared for this situation you can effectively hit the gas hard and relieve pressure from the front tire allowing you regain control.

 

[dave 236]

^^^ good analogy
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[Pumped340]

You ride a bike?
Hospital wobble is a situation where your wheel jerks one way and you overcompensate and you get into this repetitive back and forth steering and counter steering. It's generally a very bad thing and you want to start slowing down immediately because your probably going to crash.

Don't try to repair any side too hard. Work your way into and out of sides. Otherwise you get this knee jerk reaction to address a side which causes another side. letro/mast/ dmz doesn't really make sense and I think you got there but reacting. Slow down get your shit right and start over.

For the record if your on a sport bike and prepared for this situation you can effectively hit the gas hard and relieve pressure from the front tire allowing you regain control.

That is a good analogy, so what do you think I should do at this point and what would the "effectively hit the gas hard and relieve pressure" relate to?

Just weighed in today, down a few pounds and look better but both arms have lost almost half an inch in 4 days! Strength is abysmal. I don't really know what to do or what compounds to take to prevent this but the gyno lump is still there even being on high dose letro for 2 weeks. And if my E2 was only 23 before while on 500 test and 1.25 letro 1-2x/week it must be ridiculously low now on no test and 2.5mg letro ED.

 

[dave 236]

You're most likely loosing fluid from the muscle cells. Are you using any creatine post cycle? If no then that may help retain the weight and size you gained. Jmo but I'd wait a few more weeks to let your body reset itself before running any methyl.

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[dieseljimmy]

If it were me...
I would dive into a cruise with a soft dose of test. Let everything find its own level. Now I'm a blast and cruiser so keep that in mind.
my hard throttle Doesn't have a great aas comparison. I did have a cycle with a ample amount of test and a ample amount of tren with ample dbol. I did not feel good. I was sleeping like shit for 6 weeks and could not get blow a load. Even some prostate things. But I was just starting a blast and didnt want to kill the whole cycle. So I dumped the tren and the dbol and upped the test. I did this because I really like just plain old test cycles when the mg is high enough. And because I liked them I have done a bunch of then and I know ensactly how my body responds. I trust my source, I trust his dosing and I am positive that 1400 mg of prop requires only .5mg of adex a day to prevent bloat.

 

[heavylifting1]

If liver values are fine I would continue using orals I don't see a big deal.

 

[Pumped340]

You're most likely loosing fluid from the muscle cells. Are you using any creatine post cycle? If no then that may help retain the weight and size you gained. Jmo but I'd wait a few more weeks to let your body reset itself before running any methyl.

No I am not using creatine. I have used creatine many times before, 6 different brands, never noticed any benefit from it unfortunately.

Even if I am just losing water my arms were considerably bigger before the cycle. Over 1/2in. bigger and then literally in 4 days they've shrunk to what they were a year ago. Also. I am really hoping this is just temporary because it's absurd. I have been on T3 as well but that's nothing new.

Oh and for the record I am only 5 weeks into this blast following a 4 week cruise so it's not like I've been blasting for months

If it were me...
I would dive into a cruise with a soft dose of test. Let everything find its own level. Now I'm a blast and cruiser so keep that in mind.
my hard throttle Doesn't have a great aas comparison. I did have a cycle with a ample amount of test and a ample amount of tren with ample dbol. I did not feel good. I was sleeping like shit for 6 weeks and could not get blow a load. Even some prostate things. But I was just starting a blast and didnt want to kill the whole cycle. So I dumped the tren and the dbol and upped the test. I did this because I really like just plain old test cycles when the mg is high enough. And because I liked them I have done a bunch of then and I know ensactly how my body responds. I trust my source, I trust his dosing and I am positive that 1400 mg of prop requires only .5mg of adex a day to prevent bloat.

Do you think that would help the gyno issue at all? I mean honestly it's not that it's so much worse it's just that I already had pubertal gyno that has driven me crazy the last 2 years since it's been brought to my attention so now that the left side is 10-20% worse it's all I can think about. I am considering taking the next week off from everything besides 80mg Nolva ED and continuing 50mcg T3 ED then starting back up. That would be 2.5 weeks off all orals even tho liver was fine, 2 weeks off test and tren, and 1 week off mast before going back into it with maybe 2-300 test 350 mast and super-dmz. What do you think?

I would think that would give me a little break to get everything out and then start with moderate doses of compounds unlikely to cause more issues. Although still concerned about the gyno

If liver values are fine I would continue using orals I don't see a big deal.

That's what I would think, according to my blood work literally the only thing that's bad is HDL at 21 but LDL, triglycerides, Hb/Hct/RBC, liver enzymes, etc are all good.



Thanks a lot guys

 

[s2h]

Yea it sucks, but I developed a little extra gyno recently from low dose tren. I don't know how, I was taking caber 0.25mg 2x/week and E2 was in the teens so I really don't get how it could even form, but right now I'm trying to get rid of it so estrogen is tanked :\

Any thoughts on continuing orals with only a 10 day break or so? I would add back in 500-1000mg test but with the aromatization I am scared about my gyno and honestly with E2 so crushed I don't know if anything is going to help gains much unfortunately :\

i really think you need to pct...and do some reading and research and just regroup as a whole..your just throwing darts and there missing the whole board..on your current path you are just making things worse..

 

[Pumped340]

i really think you need to pct...and do some reading and research and just regroup as a whole..your just throwing darts and there missing the whole board..on your current path you are just making things worse..

Just a standard nolva PCT 40/40/20/10? I suppose that would help the gyno in theory. Do you think since I'm only 5 weeks into this blast I could make it 8 weeks by taking the next week off and starting low test like 2-300 + super-dmz 2.0? That would only be about 5-600mg and would hopefully allow me to not be so damn catabolic lol. Would continue nolva ED.

 

[Pumped340]

For the record, if running the test + SDMZ 2.0 would decrease my chances of getting rid of this gyno then I don't want to, but it seems like estrogen would still be very low at that point while continuing with nolva and having no progestin since my E2 was only 23 while on 500mg pharm grade test per week while only taking 1.25mg letro 1-2x/week, if I ran 350 test + 280 super-dmz with 1.25 letro EOD would this not have estrogen very very low? Plus as far as I know the test:estrogen ratio is important for gyno so maybe higher test could help? Not really sure, just throwing out ideas.