Gearing back up; trying some new stuff, & would appreciate feedback/opinions

[teezhay]

Note: This is longer than I intended to make it, but I have tons of notes/questions appended to the end, and I'd REALLY appreciate answers from anyone who is experienced bulking with deca and test, with various orals and potentially EQ.

This may seem blasphemous to some here, but I've never used deca-durabolin. Well, that's about to change. I spent all Summer successfully leaning out to 11% BF while maintaining my mass, and I'm prepared to emphasize BULKING in my next cycle.

My stats:

213lbs as of this morning, standing at precisely 6'0". BF% is hovering right around 11%. I'm 25, by the way, and I always go into PCT after cycle. No blasting and cruising for me quite yet.

Vague outline of what I'm considering:

Weeks 1 - 16
XXXmg Test E (see below for my thoughts on dosage)
400mg Deca Durabolin (my first run with it, open to thoughts/questions/comments on dosage)
Possibly EQ? See below.

Weeks 1-4
Short-ester test? I was considering an extra 50-75mg Test Prop E3D for two weeks, what do you think about this?
Oral kickstarter (considering either anadrol, or something drier like SD or methylstenbolone. Thoughts? I'm open to just about anything except winstrol, fuck that)

Ancillaries
Ostarine (Not really an "ancillary" per se, but 30mg ED for weeks 1-4, then again in weeks 11-15)
Aromasin (25mg ED if necessary during kickstart, otherwise 12.5mg ED)
hCG (500iu E3D throughout)

Standard PCT
Clomid/aromasin/various supplements (all of which I take ED year-round anyway so whatever), kicked off with a single 100mcg shot of triptorelin. I will also continue the ostarine at a significantly lowered dose (I'm thinking 15mg at the most, probably more like 10mg), along with IGF-1 Lr3 at 100mcg ED for 40 days.

IMPORTANT: I would like this cycle to progress such that the kickstart fulfills its role in adding quick mass, followed by a period wherein I discontinue the oral(s) and test prop (if I frontload as planned), thus shedding some water retention while adding more LBM, culminating in about 8-10 weeks of strong, steady growth. I'm aware that what I've just described is characteristic of Equipoise, so is this a compound I should include? It's also important for me to do whatever I can after discontinuing the oral(s) to combat the tendency of deca to induce water retention. I understand a certain degree of water is just the price you pay with deca, but what can I do to maintain that "hard" vascular look as much as possible?

DOSAGE QUESTIONS: What do you guys think about Test E dosage, considering I am someone who doesn't respond particularly well to high doses of testosterone? Everything you guys complain about while on tren is how I feel on 750mg of test enanthate - insomnia, sweats, etc., and the gains aren't all that great either. Are high doses of testosterone necessary to accentuate the effects of deca, or is it like tren, where you can get great results with relatively little test? Don't get me wrong, if it's worth bumping up to 750mg or so, I got no problem doing that.

On the other hand, I've always responded tremendously well 19-nor steroids (although I've only used tren e and tren ace). Other than a lot of extra sweating and some acne, I really experience none of the side effects - nothing prolactin-related, either. Should I have a dopamine agonist on hand anyway, or am I fine without it? The correlation I'm making is that I was fine without it on one 19-nor steroid, so I should be equally fine without a dopamine agonist on another 19-nor. Is this accurate?

And as for the kickstarter, please let me know what you think about the compounds I've proposed, in addition to any others I left out.

 

[overburdened]

Sounds like you have put some thought into this... good job!
EQ... I have always found it to be good for solid, slow but steady, high quality muscle gains(with very little bloat!)I'll send you a pm that will help you make the decision on eq also....I don't think it's something I am allowed to post in forum(not sure, so not going to.. but I will pm you)

the deca(I would frontload this with npp, and decanoate.... so that you can begin tapering off the npp as the decanoate begins to take effect... just like you have proposed doing with the test)



the test... if running deca, you should keep your test dosages higher, so you don't end up lacking libido, etc... I haven't had problems with deca doing that, but I have never run it without test.. you do stand a pretty good chance of it, even at your young age....

the oral... I would definitely either kickstart with an oral... or save it and use it around week 6, on... this will help you when you hit the 'myostatin wall'.. the prop should be sufficient 'kickstart' if you did it right(I would be using eod, instead of e3d... and a higher dose.. but that is all up to you)... or you can kickstart with both prop and an oral, then add another 'kicker' at week 6, when you get close the the myostatin wall.... a good oral to kickstart with would be dbol(awesome with deca) but you WILL get bloat from it!(aromasin will help with the bloat though... ).. so, choose something else, or use asin to help alleviate heavy bloat....turinabol is GREAT with the test and deca, as well as var... but I think you are looking for something a little more of a bulker... (M1T is an awesome bulker, and goes well with deca and test.. and does not cause any major degree of bloat at all).... 20-30mg of M1T for 4 weeks should get you going GREAT!!!

eq... I'll pm you something on this that may help you... but I'll say this also... frontload it!!!! eq is GREAT for bulking(and for cutting.. it's very versatile) because it greatly enhances appetite, and it increases the rate of recovery dramatically due to the extra blood volume(do get labs done, and make sure you arent getting polycythemia(this is where you get too many red blood cells, and too much hematocrit.. and can lead to bad things!!)... if you are not taking in ANY extra iron, it will help.. but still keep an eye on bloodwork(watch for high red blood cell and hematocrit....)... this, if you do it right, can help you pass that plateau that normally happens somewhere in the week 6-8 period, and on(the myostatin wall!)...

overcoming the 'myostatin wall... this is where your body reacts to slow or reverse muscle growth, to reach a state of homeostasis.. the body realizes it is carrying WAY more muscle than it is used to... and trys to correct that problem with myostatin... you can use a myo inhibitor such as labpe's myo mhp(I've heard great things about this from VERY reliable sources!!), you could use igf1-lr3(this is GREAT at blasting through plateaus!) you could use any number of things.. but I would be looking either along the lines of another short ester of something... or a peptide of some sort(I just listed two above.. there are MANY that would be useful here!)

test dosages(for kickstart)... 150mg eod of prop would be great, this keeps you under that 750 mark, but will ellicit nice gains, especially with an oral, and a kickstart of npp)....
for whole cycle... I would keep it near double your deca dose(and your deca dose is about right... so you would need to be in the 700-800 range with your test)

oral dosages(this is going to depend entirely on the oral chosen!) I, personally love M1t, but some consider it to be quite harsh... I've not had problems running it at 30mg ed for 4 week runs...

ostarine... honestly, save this for when you aren't on cycle... and use it to help maintain what you gained on cycle.. I don't think it will help much in a cycle like this.... i think using it in pct is a great idea(and the 10-15mg is probably about where you will get the most benefit without being suppressive)

hcg, good call... and I think your dosage is about right too....

I would have asin on hand, as well as caber.. and use them as needed...

pct... I don't think 100mcg of trip is enough.. I honestly think, if you are going to take it, you might as well take enough of it, that it will really get you going again, full bore!! 3-5bottles(100mcg ea) run all of them one every 3rd day... and run the clomid and nolva along with it, and beyond it... to fully kick your test and spermatogenesis back in!

so, that's my 2 cents.. check your pm bro...

 

[teezhay]

Sounds like you have put some thought into this... good job!
EQ... I have always found it to be good for solid, slow but steady, high quality muscle gains(with very little bloat!)I'll send you a pm that will help you make the decision on eq also....I don't think it's something I am allowed to post in forum(not sure, so not going to.. but I will pm you)

the deca(I would frontload this with npp, and decanoate.... so that you can begin tapering off the npp as the decanoate begins to take effect... just like you have proposed doing with the test)



the test... if running deca, you should keep your test dosages higher, so you don't end up lacking libido, etc... I haven't had problems with deca doing that, but I have never run it without test.. you do stand a pretty good chance of it, even at your young age....

the oral... I would definitely either kickstart with an oral... or save it and use it around week 6, on... this will help you when you hit the 'myostatin wall'.. the prop should be sufficient 'kickstart' if you did it right(I would be using eod, instead of e3d... and a higher dose.. but that is all up to you)... or you can kickstart with both prop and an oral, then add another 'kicker' at week 6, when you get close the the myostatin wall.... a good oral to kickstart with would be dbol(awesome with deca) but you WILL get bloat from it!(aromasin will help with the bloat though... ).. so, choose something else, or use asin to help alleviate heavy bloat....turinabol is GREAT with the test and deca, as well as var... but I think you are looking for something a little more of a bulker... (M1T is an awesome bulker, and goes well with deca and test.. and does not cause any major degree of bloat at all).... 20-30mg of M1T for 4 weeks should get you going GREAT!!!

eq... I'll pm you something on this that may help you... but I'll say this also... frontload it!!!! eq is GREAT for bulking(and for cutting.. it's very versatile) because it greatly enhances appetite, and it increases the rate of recovery dramatically due to the extra blood volume(do get labs done, and make sure you arent getting polycythemia(this is where you get too many red blood cells, and too much hematocrit.. and can lead to bad things!!)... if you are not taking in ANY extra iron, it will help.. but still keep an eye on bloodwork(watch for high red blood cell and hematocrit....)... this, if you do it right, can help you pass that plateau that normally happens somewhere in the week 6-8 period, and on(the myostatin wall!)...

Thanks for the info, and for the PM! I think this may open up some new possibilities for me, so I really appreciate that.

EQ sounds more and more characteristic of what I'd like to pursue, and stacking it with deca seems smart. I've actually never run more than two injectables at any one time, so this could get interesting!

As for the oral, I'm considering somewhat of a unique plan: anadrol (edit: maybe M1T, as you suggested) for maybe just 3-4 weeks to add a quick BANG to the kickstart, followed by a waiting period of no orals, then at around week 6 or 7, I start Super-DMZ 2.0 (methylstenbolone and dymethazine) to: a. add dry gains that will be sustainable; and b. get over the myostatin "block."

Myostatin is actually a serious concern for me.

overcoming the 'myostatin wall... this is where your body reacts to slow or reverse muscle growth, to reach a state of homeostasis.. the body realizes it is carrying WAY more muscle than it is used to... and trys to correct that problem with myostatin... you can use a myo inhibitor such as labpe's myo mhp(I've heard great things about this from VERY reliable sources!!), you could use igf1-lr3(this is GREAT at blasting through plateaus!) you could use any number of things.. but I would be looking either along the lines of another short ester of something... or a peptide of some sort(I just listed two above.. there are MANY that would be useful here!)

HMP is a bit pricey, but I'm very much leaning toward running it. When it first hit the market, Ezskanken (rep for Labpe) told me great things about it, but I'm still looking for some solid research demonstrating quality results at the dosage offered. The problem I heard with Follistatin 344 (sp?) is that while it was wildly successful in animal trials, it fell relatively flat when used in humans because the dosage just wasn't even near what it needed to be. I'm concerned that without clinical reports demonstrating success, that HMP may face the same demons. And I can rationalize tossing down way too much for a vial of something that works, but I can't quite rationalize doing that with so much doubt.

test dosages(for kickstart)... 150mg eod of prop would be great, this keeps you under that 750 mark, but will ellicit nice gains, especially with an oral, and a kickstart of npp)....
for whole cycle... I would keep it near double your deca dose(and your deca dose is about right... so you would need to be in the 700-800 range with your test)

Seems fair, I'll try this out. What dosage were you thinking for the EQ?

pct... I don't think 100mcg of trip is enough.. I honestly think, if you are going to take it, you might as well take enough of it, that it will really get you going again, full bore!! 3-5bottles(100mcg ea) run all of them one every 3rd day... and run the clomid and nolva along with it, and beyond it... to fully kick your test and spermatogenesis back in!

What's your thinking about the trip? My concern is that too much means total shutdown. Virtual chemical castration, really. And I definitely need to avoid that.

 

[teezhay]

This is why I'm concerned about HMP. Mice who received the propeptide were given 20mg/kg of bodyweight. Labpe only offers a single mg vial...I'd require almost 2,000 vials of the stuff to recreate what was done in that study.

 

[Menoah]

Judging from your goals, I think you'll really like EQ. Definitely front-load it and have A LOT of quality foods to shove in your mouth.

 

[teezhay]

Judging from your goals, I think you'll really like EQ. Definitely front-load it and have A LOT of quality foods to shove in your mouth.

Food is never a problem! I have an endless appetite, and a buddy of mine works professionally in nutrition, so I always have him as a good - and free - resource in my back pocket. Do you have any recommendations as to how I should dose the EQ?

Also, as I've said I've never run deca or EQ before, and my experience with the "harder" injectables is really limited to tren. I've never had visibility in the abs like I do now at my current BF%, and I owe a lot of that to the rapid fat loss of having dropped my calories so low while on my last tren cycle. One concern I have is that the deca, EQ, and Test E will just bloat me up and I'll lose all definition. I want to mitigate this as much as possible, so what do you guys do to maintain that "hard" look while using these long-ester bulking agents?

BTW, this question really only applies to weeks 5-16. I know damn well I'll bloat from the initial "kickstart" of test prop + anadrol/M1T (whichever I decide to go with) in weeks 1-4, but I'm not so concerned about this. It'll be temporary, and I'll shed this water upon discontinuation of whatever I take. I'm primarily concerned with maintaining a degree of leanness after that point.