im in perth, and ur in melbourne right? (saw ur post on sm). they seem to be alright... like help with a bit of an energy boost at gym, thats just the thermogen though. the hydroxyrip has all the appetite suppressants or whatever and other things to complement the thermogen. ive started using them to burn some fat, its only been 3 days so how well this works i dont know yet. im doing heaps more cardio now but ive still gotta fix my diet up a bit more though, i still find myself sneaking in some shit food everyday.