Letro bunk, underdosed, or g2g you tell me

[Onedeep0811]

First labs were taken on 7/26 after many bunk sources of AI's & SARMs my e2 came back in the 420s. Ordered some Superior Hardcore letro asap and started it on 8/01. Dosed 5mgs the first few days and then 5mgs once or twice a week into it. Besides that ran 2.5mgs/ED. Ran second labs on 8/12 and e2 came back in the 370s. Letro should lower e2 by 98% and I know it can't do this in 12 days, but im thinking it should be a lot lower then it is.

Current cycle:
200mg/wk Test C (TRT) (ama)
525mg/wk Test P (ama)
525mg/wk Tren A (ama)
250ius 2x wk HCG (ama)
2.5mg/ED Letro (superior hardcore)
.5mg 2x wk Caber (Pfizer)

 

[keith1569]

Let's see what others say


If I am not mistaken tren can cause false high e2 readings
Someone correct me please if I am wrong

 

[Onedeep0811]

Let's see what others say


If I am not mistaken tren can cause false high e2 readings
Someone correct me please if I am wrong

Itchy & puffy nipples is a sign of high e2, which are symptoms I am having. I know I've seen labs before of people on tren with their e2 in check.

If tren would show up as e2 on lab tests my e2 wouldnt have dropped. On 7/26 I was running 400mg/wk. Bumped it up too 525mg/wk in between labs. The question is the letro bunk, underdosed, or g2g.

 

[heavyiron]

Tren can skew some Estradiol tests. I would retest with zero tren in my system.

 

[Onedeep0811]

Tren can skew some Estradiol tests. I would retest with zero tren in my system.

I will retest in about two more weeks while on the tren still. Might even bump it back up to 5mg/ED for a few days. Will complete come off cycle in about three weeks or so & will retest the letro again just on my TRT dosage. At that point I for sure will be able to tell if its g2g bc my e2 should be crushed below <5.6 or however low it tests. Have tested numerous good letro brands on TRT and thats what they always come back at.

 

[_LG_]

Very disappointing. Nuff said.

 

[heavyiron]

I will retest in about two more weeks while on the tren still. Might even bump it back up to 5mg/ED for a few days. Will complete come off cycle in about three weeks or so & will retest the letro again just on my TRT dosage. At that point I for sure will be able to tell if its g2g bc my e2 should be crushed below <5.6 or however low it tests. Have tested numerous good letro brands on TRT and thats what they always come back at.

Yup, on TRT that dose will absolutely crush E2.

 

[keith1569]

Itchy & puffy nipples is a sign of high e2, which are symptoms I am having. I know I've seen labs before of people on tren with their e2 in check.

If tren would show up as e2 on lab tests my e2 wouldnt have dropped. On 7/26 I was running 400mg/wk. Bumped it up too 525mg/wk in between labs. The question is the letro bunk, underdosed, or g2g.

Ah guess I should of read it closer. My mistake

 

[plazmic]

Itchy & puffy nipples is a sign of high e2, which are symptoms I am having. I know I've seen labs before of people on tren with their e2 in check.

If tren would show up as e2 on lab tests my e2 wouldnt have dropped. On 7/26 I was running 400mg/wk. Bumped it up too 525mg/wk in between labs. The question is the letro bunk, underdosed, or g2g.

It's not that tren shows up as e2, instead it alters the reliability of the Roche ECLIA assay for testing estradiol (which is probably the cheapest/quickest method out there and thus the most common). In theory, with trenbolone present, blood draws taken back to back would show significant variance not because the E2 concentration was different, but rather that the testing methodology doesn't account for endogenous compounds that have cross-reactivity to the testing antibody and also alter ruthenium's excitability.

I'm not implying that your letro is good to go, but you shouldn't dismiss it as bunk based on these lab results.

I posted a probably explanation for why trenbolone skews the results on Heavyiron's site, but here's a copy pasta:

The Roche ECLIA assay starts by introducing antibodies that are designed to bind specifically to the what's being tested for (in this case estradiol). The antigen also has a ruthenium molecule attached to it that can emit light with electrical current (through electron excitation). The amount of light that is emitted later reveals the concentration of the compound being tested for such that the more light detected, the lower the concentration. But here's where tren fucks shit up...

While the antibodies are very specific to estradiol in this particular test, there is cross-reactivity and roughly 0.1% will bind to trenbolone. Doesn't sound like much, but trenbolone's structure reduces the excitability of the ruthenium complex from before, meaning it takes more electricity (and thus electrons flowing through) to generate any light. Remember, the less light emitted, the higher the concentration of E2 is thought to exist with this method.

Next, these tiny magnetic beads that are coated with a streptavidin protein are added to the blood. These beads bind to the estradiol and some of the tren that already attached to the first antibody added (with the ruthenium that emits light under electrical current).

Now before the electricity flows to detect light, another compound is introduced in a known quantity. in this case, it is more estradiol that has already been "biotinylated" (estradiol with a vitamin b7 attached to it). Biotin and streptavidin are extremely attracted to each other, so this new estradiol (that will not emit light) competes with the existing estradiol to bind to the magnetic beads. The idea is that the more estradiol that was already in the blood, the more of this new labeled estradiol gets competed off and because this alters the total light emission, you can extrapolate how much estradiol was in the sample originally.

Unfortunately, the tren doesn't ever lose its fight to keep its little microbead against the biotinylated estradiol because tren is fucking king. And as reactions continue, more and more tren ends up swooping in and dominating like the alpha that it is.

Finally, a magnetic plate pulls all of the shit that matters out of the solution, and the rest of the blood is washed away, including your true estradiol levels

When the switch is flipped and electricity flows, much less light is detected from the ruthenium because its either less excited by tren, or not present on the biotinylated estradiol added previously. When you plugin the known data from how the test was performed, you can calculate how much estradiol existed, but the tren is unaccounted for and so the test is invalidated in its presence.

I don't remember enough organic chemistry to try to detail the actual mechanism that causes tren to lower the ruthenium excitability, but very simple terms, the trenbolone is kind of like an electrical dampener to the ruthenium "light bulb".

I know there are some unanswered assumptions and some of this explanation may be off -- the data on trenbolone specifically is slim. But, there's plenty of research on endogenous inteference of ECLIA assays (T3 is one with very similar mechanics that can be skewed by particular antibodies and has been studied in detail on humans).

 

[Onedeep0811]

Im not saying your right or wrong, but it sure is a lot of words on paper. This is my 4th blood test on cycle. Based on all my lab results and the numerous anti Es I've taken before the tests would indicate the tren isnt reading as e2. Also did you see my prolactin levels on the 7/26 test? My leves are crushed at <0.1 everyone knows for a fact tren raises progesterone levels. Just my bro science would think the caber is helping the tren not mess with my e2. Kind of like how your bro science says the tren is reading as e2 or messing with the results.

Only way to know for sure if the letro is g2g is wait until Im just on TRT. So stand by for a few weeks.

 

[keith1569]

Subbed for your updated labs

 

[HardcorePeptides]

Other tests have shown it works and is not bunk. You all have the same batch too.

 

[Standard Donkey]

letro lowers estrogen by 98% in post-menopausal women.. about 50-55% in men..

 

[heavyiron]

letro lowers estrogen by 98% in post-menopausal women.. about 50-55% in men..

Even less in young men with high T levels.

 

[oufinny]

Even less in young men with high T levels.

It sure nuked my gyno and on 1200mg of test and SD right now I need a whopping 0.2ml per day to stay dry as a bone. Letro is no joke!