Mild PH for first cycle

[MattPorter]

Won't be until the spring anyhow as have a holiday in January and I plan on doing one more test booster super stack before this. Hopefully by then they'll be a few logs on the new Andro recipes. Also have a bunch of niggling injuries that I want to get beyond and finally see the light at the end of the tunnel on. Hitting 40 does suck, heh.

There will be alot more logs for sure. In fact, I am having a Bodybuilding competitor rely entirely on JUST ANDRO for his contest preparation....

He used aas in past --tren,winny,test (all dosed mildly)

He gained 14lbs off AndroBulk (beta tester) and now believes in Mass/Hard/Lean for his contest prep. He will be fully sponsored so this will save him money that would have been spent on black market aas.

Should be very convincing if everything pans out!

-Matt

 

[ryansm]

To be honest I'm probably going to do AndroMass and then do their Testosterone Recovery Stack. Even though H-drol is mild I definitely care for my nutz more than my muscles. I'm about to hit 40 so I could do with a little help but I'm not looking to be the next Arnie. If AndroMass could help me puton 10lbs of lean gains in the 8 week period that's all I really want.

H-drol gets touted as a mild oral but it isn't. I had similar bloods from it as I did on SD and M1T along with other issues.

 

[patternsco]

i also was considering my first cycle and this is wat was told to me too, plus the benefits of a mild dose wont be worth it, so i was advised?

Personally I say fuck going mild, if you're gonna shut yourself down and have to pct might as well make it good. My first "cycle" was p-plex and I loved it <3

 

[BP2000]

why iz you in Japan? Military?

 

[Logman]

Nah, just ended up here after some travels.

 

[Logman]

Nah, just ended up here after some travels.

 

[MattPorter]

Nah, just ended up here after some travels.

So what is the final verdict? What will be your cycle of choice?

-Matt

 

[Logman]

I did the AndroStat thing and it says:

"Your estimated total testosterone level is - 461ng/dL"

And looking at the chart it makes out that I just suck and Andro is no good to see. Weird teh test didn't ask about sex drive and stuff as I'm sure that's an indicator of test levels. Maybe I'll keep it natural for another year or so. I just did a massive cut from 81kg to 71kg to try and get some definition and I wasn't even that fat. Even then I couldn't lose the thin layer of fat over my abs totally. Ah well, sucks to have shit genetics.

 

[MattPorter]

I did the AndroStat thing and it says:

"Your estimated total testosterone level is - 461ng/dL"

And looking at the chart it makes out that I just suck and Andro is no good to see. Weird teh test didn't ask about sex drive and stuff as I'm sure that's an indicator of test levels. Maybe I'll keep it natural for another year or so. I just did a massive cut from 81kg to 71kg to try and get some definition and I wasn't even that fat. Even then I couldn't lose the thin layer of fat over my abs totally. Ah well, sucks to have shit genetics.

Will be hard to lose stubborn fat if your hormones arent superficially high.

You would fare well with AndroHArd v3 and AndroLean when it gets released.

Stay positive! If you wanted to run a mass gaining cycle -- then keep trying to get lean before starting the cycle as you will super sensitive in a lean state before introducing hormones.

-Matt

 

[Logman]

Aye, well, I'm on a bulk phase right now after that massive cut. But I'm going a lot slower this time around. My last few bulks didn't go well and ended up putting on too much too soon. Doing better this time though. Going to do a few natty t-booster stacks next year and may hit Andro for a cut before the summer.

 

[Logman]

So why does Andro need a PCT if it doesn't shit down test production in the nutsack?

 

[~RaZr~]

I believe the general consensus is that whenever you mess with your natural testosterone production with exogenous hormones, you need some sort of way to speed up the recovery process.

I think the only time you don't need some sort of PCT is when you take natural products like trib.

 

[Logman]

Yea, but on the Andro site they tout the need to just use their TRS stack yet their reps say differing things from yes you need a serm to no, just buy our TRS stack for $10,000.

If your nutz continue to make test during the cycle as is claimed by Andro I don't see a scientific reason to artificially restart the process with a serm. Maybe it just puts a dampener on test production while not actually cutting it to zero? If that's true I think I'd like to see real data on how much natural test production is affected by these DHEA compounds. If I don't have to take a serm I don't want to put my liver through it.

 

[MattPorter]

Yea, but on the Andro site they tout the need to just use their TRS stack yet their reps say differing things from yes you need a serm to no, just buy our TRS stack for $10,000.

If your nutz continue to make test during the cycle as is claimed by Andro I don't see a scientific reason to artificially restart the process with a serm. Maybe it just puts a dampener on test production while not actually cutting it to zero? If that's true I think I'd like to see real data on how much natural test production is affected by these DHEA compounds. If I don't have to take a serm I don't want to put my liver through it.

Guys--- For pete sake.....ALL INFO and QUESTIONS you have are on our HOME SITE!!!

Don't be lazy ---the information is there.

You want the data to prove that the suppression is not so harsh? You can DOWNLOAD the full case report on each beta tester. Here is one of them --Kalen D. Case Report

Also --- it WILL MILDLY shut you down---but NOT FULLY, so it would be wise to run some testosterone stimulating products for PCT --not something I would chance regardless of less suppression.

-Matt

 

[Logman]

Not being lazy, just discussing the product. Even if the info is there on the site, doesn't mean I can find it. Also I find the lack of concensus of PCT from the site and teh reps quite concerning. The site seems to promote the TRS as the only necessary PCT. You said it's wise to run something but didn't state if that was boosters or serms.

 

[ryansm]

Yea, but on the Andro site they tout the need to just use their TRS stack yet their reps say differing things from yes you need a serm to no, just buy our TRS stack for $10,000.

If your nutz continue to make test during the cycle as is claimed by Andro I don't see a scientific reason to artificially restart the process with a serm. Maybe it just puts a dampener on test production while not actually cutting it to zero? If that's true I think I'd like to see real data on how much natural test production is affected by these DHEA compounds. If I don't have to take a serm I don't want to put my liver through it.

Reps do have their own opinion I always use a SERM, use the TRS with a lower dose of SERM like Torem if you have concerns

 

[ryansm]

Not being lazy, just discussing the product. Even if the info is there on the site, doesn't mean I can find it. Also I find the lack of concensus of PCT from the site and teh reps quite concerning. The site seems to promote the TRS as the only necessary PCT. You said it's wise to run something but didn't state if that was boosters or serms.

consensus is is there we all use the TRS, I just add in a low dose SERM. The info easy easy to find a lot of work was put into it and the site is quite clear.

 

[Logman]

Okay, understood. Guess I'll just bite the bullet and not let the "Not for Human Consumption" label put me off. Main reason for wanting to avoid it is because I'd have to try and get it shipped in and i have no idea on Japan's laws about this. I found this site selling Nolva that do international shipping so I'll get that first and if all good I'll get some Andro if I see a good promo. 8 weeks of AM and 8 weeks of AH at 3 caps would be the stack I want but that's a cool $530. :|

 

[MattPorter]

^^

Have you tried prohormonewarehouse dot com? They are a wholesaler of ours and have great prices....

-Matt

 

[Logman]

Thanks, that looks good, and international shipping too. But I really need to see if I can receive the serm first before buying I guess. I hope there's another 40% sale in the near future.

Hey, I read on PHF that everyone pre-loads cycles with Hawthorn Berry. But I see IMs Advanced Cycle Support contains it so should I just pre-load with that or take it while on teh cycle? Also intending on doing an H-Drol cycle after the AM/AH if all goes well and as that is a methyl I'm interested in preserving my liver. The PP Liver Juice looks cheap too so interested in those two products for liver support on AM/AH and Halo Extreme.

Oh yea, also need recs on a decent Taurine product.

Thanks for all the advice so far fellas.

 

[HeavyMIGGY]

H-drol and torem

 

[banker23]

So why does Andro need a PCT if it doesn't shit down test production in the nutsack?

depends on the length of cycle...6 weeks is well established to befine with just the OTC Test recovery stack. I did 7 weeks of AM and AH laddered (4 weeks each with one week overlap) and I recovered fine and experienced no shrinkage.

Now that I've done an AAS cycle I would like to use my new knowledge to lengthen an Andro cycle beyond the recommended 6 weeks. 10 weeks AM/AH using HCG on cycle and a true PCT. I will also research increasing dosage at 5 weeks and 8 weeks if androseries result in myostatin stalls in gains like test. AM is supposed to be the "test base" of the lineup so I am going to give it a chance and use it the same way I would use test and see what happens.

The only thing I can't really match in the andro series is the "dbol" kicker so I will have to hold off on making direct comparisons until week 5 or so.

 

[banker23]

Reps do have their own opinion I always use a SERM, use the TRS with a lower dose of SERM like Torem if you have concerns

I would always use a SERM now but part of that is because we are comfortable sourcing and receiving them...running HCG and pharma stuff is still a little on the "grey" side though (while the PP stuff on its own is completely above board hopefully for a long long time).

I know I wasn't ready for grey market stuff on my first go-round so as long as OP is doing the short recommended cycle (4-6 weeks) he should do great. If he's already comfortable with research and pharma route then by all means lengthen a cycle and use a real PCT and possibly AI if running AB.

 

[banker23]

tren. 90000mg a day. finally working up the balls? not trying to bew a dick but if you are scared about a ph then PH and AAS is not for you. this is getting old.

SFG I think a little fear is a healthy thing with these products. How many times do we see posts in here from kids who are popping stuff with no thought for long term effects? Way too often, right ?(except maybe it's a little fun to rag on them).

I am 38; was 37 when I decided to use my first PH and was all excited about getting started, but then I started reading about elvated liver values and all kinds of medical stuff that sounded a little too serious for a quick decision. I hunted around until I found something that had low sides and zero liver toxicity: Andro series from PP.

I did a great cycle and learned a ton of stuff while I was doing it from their site forum, and made the decision to join the dark side a few months later. I never would have gained that confidence and knowlege if I had not made the jump last year and I needed a "safe" option to feel good about making that initial first step.

This isn't fish oil or vitamins we're talking about here. Fear is a good thing when it comes to PH or AAS.

 

[Logman]

Cheers. There's a lot of shit to get your head around but I'm pretty much there and comfortable with it now. I'm going to source some Nolva as PCT as it looks the most tried and tested. Torem looks pretty new? Then I'll run the AM/AH stack and then if all goes well I'll do an H-Drol run and then reassess.

Think I'm good for most of the supps to run. I even heard of some gyno issues on h-drol so thinking an AI like Triazole ran on cycle could help prevent that. And then there's teh standard Cycle Support stuff, and a DAA based booster during PCT. How hard can it be.

 

[banker23]

Cheers. There's a lot of shit to get your head around but I'm pretty much there and comfortable with it now. I'm going to source some Nolva as PCT as it looks the most tried and tested. Torem looks pretty new? Then I'll run the AM/AH stack and then if all goes well I'll do an H-Drol run and then reassess.

Think I'm good for most of the supps to run. I even heard of some gyno issues on h-drol so thinking an AI like Triazole ran on cycle could help prevent that. And then there's teh standard Cycle Support stuff, and a DAA based booster during PCT. How hard can it be.

torem is newer but no reason not to go with it. reviews are among the best for PCT but if you want tried and true go with clomid versus nolva. Nolva's more of an AI than a PCT in my opinion. I see people using it to address gyno not as an actual full fledged PCT. Clomid's the best established PCT but Torem is rapidly being recognized for its effectiveness (possible superiority?) as well.

You can find research that supports nolva both on cycle and PCT but most of the vets that I have grown to know over the last year will say stick with Clomid (or torem if they've made the jump). Not a bad idea to have a few different AI's and prolactin drugs on hand before starting anything just in case though.

Shouldn't need any of these things at all though if you're just testing the water with a short androseries cycle. Just get the TRS and try a 4 week cycle to see how it sits with you. Like I said, I did seven weeks and everything went fantastic. I started logging it on the PP website after about the second week if you want to look at it. PM me and I'll send you a link.

 

[ryansm]

Thanks, that looks good, and international shipping too. But I really need to see if I can receive the serm first before buying I guess. I hope there's another 40% sale in the near future.

Hey, I read on PHF that everyone pre-loads cycles with Hawthorn Berry. But I see IMs Advanced Cycle Support contains it so should I just pre-load with that or take it while on teh cycle? Also intending on doing an H-Drol cycle after the AM/AH if all goes well and as that is a methyl I'm interested in preserving my liver. The PP Liver Juice looks cheap too so interested in those two products for liver support on AM/AH and Halo Extreme.

Oh yea, also need recs on a decent Taurine product.

Thanks for all the advice so far fellas.

If you are running Hdrol as well the yes you will need support supps. What you have been reading is fine, pre-load with the advanced cycle support and continue it on cycle. If you are not running the Hdrol with AM/AH then there is no need for support supps.

 

[|Z|]

My vote is also for H-Drol. I did it 50/75/75/75/75 and bumped it up to around 125 towads the end... 75 was the sweet spot for me, 100 and over was too much, back pumps were hell.

Anyway, it was a great cycle, would and will run it again soon. Prob going to stack with 11-oxo for a lean summer cycle!

 

[Logman]

Thanks guys I think I'm decided on the first few cycles. I'll do an AM/AH cycle and then H-Drol after that. If all good maybe move onto Epivar for the third.