stop decreasing your bodys natty Test production

[Mindgame516]

Whats up bros. Just wanted to say a couple of things to hopefully help some younger juicers and pretty much anyone. Now what im going to say is what i expierenced and felt and what i think it was from. It doesent mean what i say is 100% facts but once again is what i think it was caused from. I really dont think im the smartest or know everything and alwaus open for suggestions n criticism. But here it is.

Ive ran maybe about 7-8 cycles most of them 3-4 months and one time being really stubborn and went 6 months. I did plenty of reading and research before my cycles for years before i started. . The first 2 cycles i was a jerkoff 22yr old and dident use pct when i knew its a must. I spent the rest of my money to run a longer cycle instead of pct. Complet retart move i know lol. But i really dident notice much of a difference on or off test i guess i was producin plenty of test. So anyway tome went on ive used everything from test dbol deca to tren. I used pct the rest of my cycles. more around 2009 was n o feel thete was alot of bro science on hcg and not many studys on the internet yet or so i think. And it was said the hcg kickstarts your test and is great for pct which ia not true( i will get to that point in a min) anyway it wasent until my last cycle about 1.5 yrs ago i was running prop and training for the golden gloves already about 2-3 months on cycle and i was running low on test p so i odered more from a supplier i never tried. it was my last two bottles to run so I ended up running them. I kept training obviously but i started feeling weak, stressed out n alot less motivated. I was working 10 hr days construction and then training for 2 hrs boxing plus, im in recovery so i go to meetings. Im not scared to disclose that. All i know is that something was fuxking going on with me and i couldent figure it out, life was becoming real hard socially i was becoming a different person and no where near the loud energetic goof i usually was. The next three weeks in the gym training i thoight i was sick.
i would go to the gym and after fifteen min of training i was fuxking burnd out bad and it was very frustrating. i would just storm to the locker room and grab muy shit and go home Trying to figure out Whats going on with my body. I was so motivated the whole time to fight.my first fight in the gloves was 3 weeks prior . I WAS READY!!! Pumped i won by tko in the first 20 sec of the 2nd rd. Now i dident even care about the upcoming fight i just cared about laying down and staying away from ppl. Any way my fight came i told mytrainer before the fight im not going to win. I just was so out of it. After the fight i went home and never went back to the gym. How the fuck can i be so pumped to win the golden gloves for yrs and just not give two shots about that fight? It just dident make anysense to me at all. And kept trying to understand Whats going on with me This attitude i had kept up after finally finished those prop bottles and start pct which. the prop was fake whixh is why i was fweling mentally and physically fuxking off. Two more months went by and i coudent take it anymore i felt just as shitty after pct. I started using drugs again aftrr two years clean.

A couple months after, i stopped for a little while but still had the same shitty feeling and started using again. Finally after 7 arrest and a bunch of problems from drugs and the way i felt i stayed clean and out of 4 months only got high a couple times as opposed to ED . istarted to go to the gym again and ipicked up some test to get me more motivAted to work out anything to stop getting high. Prop it was with in a week i was feeling pretty good i wasent feeling that feeling in me that struggle Nd it was almost emotionall after about 3 weeks of how normal i felt i was just happy and it wasent so hard to do things anymore. It still dident click just yet i ended up not taking a shot of prop for 8 days do to a bottle breaking and waiting for another to come. thats when i started feeling that same feeling that had haunted me in the past year it automatically gave me flashabcks of that misery . i Still dident put 2 and 2 together.

finally i got my package and started the prop and a couple days later I was a complete diff person again back to feeling just normal the way i felted befote i started cycling I realized it was the test. And that i fucked up my test levels bad over the years of cycling. Even with pct still. If your body doesent get any signals it will produce less testosterone when you come off. Everytime you cycle I found this article study and it really made so much sense on what i had done to my body by not using HCG on cycle. From my understanding after reading this, is that if you do not use hcg on cycle you are going to decrease your natty test production perm. So i highly suggest all newbs or anyone running any length of cycle to include hcg and always use proper pct. Hopefully you can understand the importance of what were doing to out bodies and its not to be taken lightly. As long as your running your cycle and using proper protocols you should be safe just please dont be stupid like i was. Read this article and it will really explain how important hcg is while on cycle. Completely changed my outlook and wish i would have ran hcg during every cycle


http://bodybuilding.elitefitness.co...pin-use-anabolic-steroid-cycles-bodybuilding/

 

[Stat42]

Well I'm no expert either. But when you take hcg it's telling your body to start producing test and when you inject test it's telling your body to shut down production, so if you asked me that would just confuse the shit out of your body and probably fuck you up a lot worse. That just sounds retarded to post cycle while on a cycle. What's the fucking point of injecting test then? I say if you're that worried then steroids aren't for you. If you want natural test levels then the only way to achieve that is just don't cycle.


H-as Pharma

 

[Mindgame516]

The longer you go without a signal the less test your body is going to produce. You dont understand how electricity works but you lnow it work. Read the article explains it very simple. Not to a dick but if your not a scientist ncompletley dont understand how something very complex works means and to give broscience that its worse to run on hcg on cycle you are so wrong.
http://bodybuilding.elitefitness.com/hcg-human-chorionic-gonadotropin-use-anabolic-steroid-cycles-bodybuilding/[/url]

 

[Stat42]

Dude you're not making any sense it's common knowledge that your body produces less and less the longer you're on cycle. You can't have it both ways. Your logic is basically "I'll post cycle while on so when I stop I'll still have my natural levels" doesn't work like that dude. "You can't have your cake and eat it too". It's a risk and a trade off of cycling


H-as Pharma

 

[Mindgame516]

ely, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that hCG should be used after a cycle, during PCT. Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran during a cycle.

Eric M. Potratz

Eric M. Potratz has developed his education in the field of endocrinology and performance enhancement through years of research, counseling, and real world experience. Over the past five years he has been a private consultant for hundreds of athletes and bodybuilders alike, and is the founder & president of Primordial Performance.
Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many popular ?steroid profiles? advocate using hCG at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960?s) hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged LH deficiency. (21,22) A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (2,11) (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.) (12-18) If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function ? but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won?t regain full testicular function.

One term that is critical to understand is testosterone secretion capacity which is synonymous to testicular sensitivity. This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given LH or hCG stimulation. Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity), it will take more LH or hCG stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity. If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of LH or hCG stimulation will trigger normal testosterone production ? and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production.

To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%. (2-6)

Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. (4) This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) The point here is to not judge testosterone secretion capacity by testicular size.


The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids. (8) In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. (7) Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production. 20)

These studies show that postponing hCG usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery. As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further HPTA suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gyno. (11) For example, high doses of hCG have been found to raise estradiol up to 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%. (11) Higher doses of hCG are also known to reduce LH receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes (12,13,19 ) ? the last thing someone wants during recovery. While these negative effects of hCG can be partly mitigated by the use of a SERM such as tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic SERM (covered in another article).

In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn?t use it on cycle.

Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. (2) It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it?s important to discontinue the hCG before you start PCT so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body?s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)

A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a twice a week shot of 200iu hCG, or possibly a once a week shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body?s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion. If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG ?kick starting? dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence, since the testes will be desensitized, thus requiring a higher dose. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)

Discuss HCG on the EliteFitness.com Forums:
Instead of AAS, could one do an HCG cycle?
is HCG illegal?
can you stack hcg with sustanon
mixing Hcg for PCT
Fake organon HCG?
HCG storage?
HCG: 10 days straight vs. 3x/wk for 3 weeks
Can i get away with pct without hcg?
Trying to figure out if I should do HCG?and when
would u use vet hcg?
HCG/pregnyl
Advice with Fina, Sustanon, Clomid and HCG
How to prepare HCG? Vial in Water , Vial in Powder? Help
Note: If following the on cycle hCG protocol, hCG should NOT be used for PCT.

Recap:

For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn?t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.

In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from ?on cycle? to ?off cycle? thus avoiding the post cycle crash.
LLC. All rights reserved.

 

[Mindgame516]

not trying to be a dick but if you did a little more research you would see that by using HCG on cycle you have much better chances of not decreasing yout natty test

 

[Mindgame516]

at least though you know and im sure would tell ppl its a tradeoff, alot of broscience will say as long as you pct you wont be affected. which to be honest ill would of used geari but from what i get out of this article as long as your getting signals to your hpta your your leydigs stay stimulated they wont decrease as they would if they were getting no signals. IM just trying to get ppl who are going to cycle to be safe about it and try and prevent ppl from going through what i went through from what i feel like could have been avoided if i had run HCG on cycle,