Very disturbing discovery...everyone please participate as much as possible

[Yanick]

Okay so today i found out some very disturbing information, i think this is one of the worst shockers i've had to date and its really going to cost me some sleep.

some backround information. i work in a company that distributes watches to retailers like sears and such. we have 2 offices, one in brooklyn (office/warehouse) and one in the city(office/showroom). my brother has been working at that company for probably close to 5 years now, he started out with an entry level job and worked his way up to having a good amount of power there. i work there as a shipping guy and get paid crap cause its a crap job but i work there so i could get a paycheck and buy stuff while going to school.

i got back from school tonight, about 2 hours ago, and saw my bro and his GF(who also works in my office but for a different company) standing outside. so we started chatting, one thing led to another and i started venting about how much i hate the bosses because they are assholes and take advantage of the workers with no regard for anyone but themselves. we got to talking about the warehouse workers (low wage, crap job etc) and how they are always getting royally fucked by the bosses. we basically got into a giant argument about a couple of issues but i'm mainly interested in one, maybe two of them.

a while ago the warehouse wanted to unionize so they could make some more money, benefits, days off etc. the bosses pretty much took a giant dump on their heads and killed the whole situation, i don't know the details but the whole thing wound up going down the drain for the workers and they continue to this day to work in the same conditions.

now i have a huge problem with this issue, and my realization today is that most of the world does NOT have a problem with this issue. the debate wound up being me against my bro, his GF, and my neighbor.

i basically argued that if i was in the boss' shoes and had something of that sort happen to me i would gladly make 9mil/year instead of 10mil/year if it meant that maybe 20 of those poor people working for me would have more money, health insurance for them and their kids etc etc. my logic being that at the end of your life, that 1mil/year won't make a huge difference to a millionaire. you'll wind up buying a 20foot boat instead of a 25foot boat, but on the other hand the worker's quality of life might go up 200 percent ie his/her kid might get sick and he won't have to worry about paying huge medical bills to help his kid.

i also told them about something my english teacher talked to us about. he basically said that you might be the nicest person in the world, and want to change things by getting to top of the business world. however by the time you actually get to the top, you won't change anything because you, yourself, will have changed to an asshole/cut throat/corrupt exec or whatever.

their argument was, fuck the little guy he/she should be able to fend for themselves and if i can make 1million more dollars by firing everyone in the warehouse i will do it in a second. i have to look out for no. 1 and fuck all else, no one cares about you etc.

now that sort of bothered me, because i'm a person who thinks the best of people and doesn't want to conform to society's idea of big house, nice car, etc. if that happens to me so be it, but i have plans other then the ones society has embedded into everyone's head.

now what i would like from you guys is an opinion about this issue. today i've discovered that most people are like my brother, and they actually look down on people like me who care about others and don't mind making little sacrifices if it means other will have much more. we argued for a while, and now we are really mad at each other because i called him a sell out, ass kisser/asshole who should just go suck his boss' cock and maybe he'll get a raise or a promotion. he called me retarded or something like that because i'm actually thinking of other people.

guys/gals, there are some smart people on here and i'd appreciate some input because i know i might be part of a small percentage of the world with my views but i know that deviating from the norm on this particular subject is NOT a bad thing and shows that a person is truly good inside. i'm going a little nuts thinking about how fucked up the world is, where people say i'm stupid for having views like that. it truly does break my heart and i can't sleep for shit right now. so lets have some opinions people please.

 

[Twigz]

Read the book Animal Farm. Its kind of strange, but makes a good point. Absolute power is corrupt absolutely!

 

[cappo5150]

You are not alone my friend. That's what Capitalism is all about, screwing the workers.

 

[PreMier]

Yea, I work for a fucking oil corporation(5th largest in US) and they are the stingiest mother fuckers I have ever worked for. Its total fucking bullshit to the max, and if i could get close enough to the CEO I would spit on his shoe and tell him to fuck off. I feel ya man, and if your bro loses his job someday, and has to work on a lower level, he will to. He obviously hasnt had to bust his ass in a shithole yet.

 

[nsimmons]

While i see your point, and I'm in the same situation as yourself. Why should I as a boss suffer because some people didn't get their act together and do something with their life. Why are these people stuck in the warehouse in the first place? They maybe lazy, they may have been trapped at a young age with kids, who knows, but I consider that their problem not mine. That may seem cold, but thats reality.

I agree with your 9 million - 10 million situation, but in real life for every nice boss there are 100 others that would take advantage of the situation and use that as leverage to put the nice boss out of business. There is no Pareto optimal situation, because people as a whole cannot be trusted to do whats best for the common good. so if 99 of the bosses are nice, there will be one who will use that to his advantage to screw the others. That will always be the case. In the end the nice, fair companies will die off.

Philosophers have argued this as a reason for requiring government and laws, because people cannot be trusted without the fear of immediate consequences. This holds in economic theory as well.

It may not be nice and fuzzy, but it is reality and very fascinating. And who said philosophy is a useless class

 

[overthepond]

Although a greedy boss who doesn't give their workers a fair wage for their work, or any sort of benefits and insurance, is greedy, that doesn't mean people should just have things handed to them. Most millionaire bosses probably started the company and had to work damn hard to do so.

People should work for what they get, not just get it because they need/want it. You said it yourself...."my brother has been working at that company for probably close to 5 years now, he started out with an entry level job and worked his way up to having a good amount of power there." He worked his way up and has earned what he now has.

If you are going to read anything, read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.

 

[P-funk]

Well, being that I worked at that place with you I know what you mean about those owners.

The only real reason that workers would ever want to unionize is because they feel they are being treated unjustly and need a union to bargan for better wages, healthcare, etc...because alone, no one person in the warehouse has enough power to make a difference.

My father owns a large trucking company but the truckers that work for him are not union truckers, nor have they ever wanted to be. Why? because my father pays them higher than what the union workers get and he gives them excellent benefits. they have nothing to argue about. keep your workers happy and they will work for you forever.

I hate that place, the owners of that place a scum. I would love to beat the shit out of them. LOL, the day I quit that place I was so happy (what was even better was the way I did it. haha). Fuck them, you are better off somewhere else.

 

[GoalGetter]

if i was in the boss' shoes and had something of that sort happen to me i would gladly make 9mil/year instead of 10mil/year if it meant that maybe 20 of those poor people working for me would have more money, health insurance for them and their kids etc etc. my logic being that at the end of your life, that 1mil/year won't make a huge difference to a millionaire. you'll wind up buying a 20foot boat instead of a 25foot boat, but on the other hand the worker's quality of life might go up 200 percent ie his/her kid might get sick and he won't have to worry about paying huge medical bills to help his kid.

Yan, i totally agree with you here. And i have gotten into arguments with someone very close to me about this very thing. They are all about making that extra million dollars for themselves if the opportunity presents itself. I am not. This person who works so damn hard and has earned every penny he has made, is really generous on a one-on-one basis. if an employee needs something, he helps them out. But he is stingy and he is ultimately always looking out for himself. He believes that you make your own destiny and if you are poor it is your fault not your employer's fault. If you are not making enough money at this particular job, then find somewhere else wher eyou will make more, because this is what you get at THIS job, end of story. As if it is that easy for some of these people to even find another job, with higher pay, to boot!

It is really sad, that this is the way of the world, for the most part. In fact, it's a bit discouraging to me in terms of starting my own business because as your teacher said, I am afraid that by the time i am successful, I will not remember how I was when I started out, and my priorities will be different.

I tried to explain this to the person i mentioned above, how money wasn't the most important thing in the world to me, and that it made me happy to have some kind of positive impact on other people's lives, even if it meant that i would make a little less money... (this was most recently rehashed when i left my high-paying office job in December to be a trainer full time).

i know i might be part of a small percentage of the world with my views but i know that deviating from the norm on this particular subject is NOT a bad thing and shows that a person is truly good inside. i'm going a little nuts thinking about how fucked up the world is, where people say i'm stupid for having views like that. it truly does break my heart and i can't sleep for shit right now.

Awww, yan. Just stay true to yourself in whatever you end up doing. Strive to be successful, but keep kindness and compassion at the top of your priority list.

 

[DOMS]

Many people who become rich actually become philanthropists. Less so those who are born rich.

Take Bill Gates. His company has committed all sorts of illegal activities, but his employees (no matter their department) are well paid and he has donated hundreds of millions (possibly over a billion) of dollars throughout the years. He's certainly not a model example but he's not what you're describing either. He's also the richest businessman in with world.

 

[The_Man]

You can be a big fish or a little fish your a little fish at the moment.

 

[LW83]

Survival of the fittest :|

I think that unfortunately, once a person reaches the 'boss/upper management' level they lose the compassion that you are talking about.

 

[Dale Mabry]

I think your boss is smart to not allow you guys to unionize. While the idea of the union seems just, it is basically just a legal way of being part of the mafia. Case in point, I have a friend who is completely incompetent, but he is a member of the electric workers union here in philadelphia. He sleeps most of the day and prolly puts out about 20% effort into his work. He also gets paid $45k a year to do this with only a high school diploma. If his boss ever tried to fire him, the union would be on his ass in seconds. If any person trying to build a business uses non-union construction companies, they picket outside the building and disrupt the non-union workers.

I agree your boss is an asshole if you are in substandard conditions, but unions have given themselves a bad name over the years.

 

[Dale Mabry]

Many people who become rich actually become philanthropists. Less so those who are born rich.

"I could be a philanthropist...A kick ass philanthropist....And people would love me. They would come to me for money, and if I felt like it, I would give it to them. Then, they would owe me BIG time!"

 

[Decker]

It???s a matter of fact that wages in this country, when factored with inflation, have stagnated or declined since 1973. It???s also a matter of fact that executive class compensation over the last 15 years has increased by at least a factor of 10. In other words, the average working class person is making less today in real dollars than he was 30 years ago while the high end executives are making a killing. It???s also evident that union participation and establishment has declined to abysmal numbers. I think there is a connection.



A credible union is the only thing that stands between you and utter servility at the hands of corporate execs. Remember, we all can???t be executives???the world needs ditch diggers too. If this country had never had unions, there would be no American middle class today. Just think of the robber barons and Dickensian/Steinbeck poor of the late 19th and early 20th century of this country---what voice did the average joe have back then???none.



And does anyone really believe that the philanthropy of those robber barons justified the unhealthy, dangerous, and even deadly working conditions imposed on workers? Oh that???s right, we have Carnegie Hall and Vanderbilt University???that more than makes up for the virtual vile serfdom, premature deaths, and meager subsistence wages the average American got back then.

 

[Yanick]

thanks for the responses everyone. makes me a little happier to know that i'm not the only person like that around.

i just want to make a comment on a couple of things people have said.

1. its their fault they are working in a warehouse...they need to do something to get out of their situation...my brother (i say lets get away from my company as a specific example, lets just talk about the issue:millionaires wanting to become even richer at the expense of the lower/middle class) has had to work to get where he is however his situation is nowhere close to where some of the people's in the warehouse. for example where i work, this one Puerto Rican lady works with me getting paid shitty wage and longer hours than everyone in the office with a much harder job. She grew up with an abusive father (sexually) and later with an abusive husband (emotionally) and she was actually forced to run away to california for a couple of years with her kids to get away from him.

now does anyone think that she is able to start going to college at the age of 40 with three kids and no husband to help out? is it really all her fault that she is stuck with a job that pays 7/hr, living hand to mouth wondering if she'll be able to make rent next month? she is probably the hardest worker in the whole place, always happy to help people out, always smiling and just non-stop work AND they make her stay 30 min after everyone else to clean up no matter what. She's happy to have the job, no benefits, shitty wage, shitty hours, getting pushed around by everyone etc. can you people really sleep at night thinking that she doesn't deserve health insurance for her kids because she isn't a salesperson and doesn't have the language skills to be able to feed bullshit to people and make companies big $$$.

2. Dale's comments on my boss being smart about not allowing them to unionize (i want to emphasize them, i was never part of the warehouse and i always worked in the offices so i was always 'above' the warehouse people). I can see where you're coming from about people being lazy and getting paid etc. but that particular situation is really of no concern to me because i'm more concerned about what people think about the bigger issue at hand IE your a millionaire and you have a chance to make 10million instead of 9million next year, but in order to do so you will need to take a giant dump on the heads of your lowest level workers. what would you do?

i'm at work and don't have too much time to respond as well as i would like, i'll try to put some more stuff up after work/gym today. lets just say i didn't sleep very well last night.

 

[Dale Mabry]

Oh, I agree with you wrt your boss. I would take a $1million pay cut if I were making that much. It would prolly be more out of trying to prevent unionization than my good heart. But then, he divides out the $1million he graciously gives out, and then people unionize anyway so he gets fucked. Not being a dick since I am the same way, but no matter how much you give a person, they always want more.

WRT vacations, that is just shitty business practices. But the caveat is that the job was taken knowing full well you don't get vacation days.

Either way I feel for ya man, it sucks being somewhere like that. If your boss was smart, he would realize that even if there is only a small group of unhappy workers, it has an effect on the productivity of everyone.

I hate the way the system works. You have to bust your ass to get a raise. I would rather be paid on my current performance, not past shit. And then on top of that, you have to bust your ass even more to get paid more. And, in the end, it is all about who ya know and not how hard you work. Not to mention the ass kissing.

 

[Vieope]

he basically said that you might be the nicest person in the world, and want to change things by getting to top of the business world. however by the time you actually get to the top, you won't change anything because you, yourself, will have changed ...

Nature of evil..

 

[Jo-Anna]

Just look at Jerome Bettus (i.e. "The Bus") of the NFL Steelers, this is his second pay cut just so he can get to the Super Bowl.

He is considered one of the heros!

 

[largepkg]

Just look at Jerome Bettus (i.e. "The Bus") of the NFL Steelers, this is his second pay cut just so he can get to the Super Bowl.

He is considered one of the heros!

It's Jerome Bettis. Women...

 

[largepkg]

*runs and ducks for cover*