Steve Is Drowning

[Trouble]

don't know why American men took it upon themselves to sacrifice so much to make everybody else happy. Sure, love and honor your parents, but don't become a freakin' orthodontist because that's what would make dad proud. Sure, love and honor your wife, but don't give up ever doing any activity that doesn't involve her. Sure, love and honor your kids, but don't cease to exist simply because they do.

No wonder the divorce rate is so high in America, there's too much freakin' family togetherness and self-sacrifice. Both things are noble and wonderful...until they turn into loathing.

I know what the author is trying to say. But its the tone and the way he constructs his logic that are fallacious and irritating.

My god, its not that America is swimming in togetherness! Quite the contrary. Its that far too many men and women are missing the notion of emotional maturity.

Emotional maturity is when you become comfortable with yourself and your place in the progression of your life. You stop being self exploratory and self centered, like an infant or young child that only sees reality from his limited perspective. You develop a new word that describes your view of self in relation to others: we. The ability to put the needs and welfare of others alongside your own in healthy balance.

When you marry, you retain self identity a modest allotment of private time and space, but its shared with the largess of being *outwardly directed* in the support and nurturing of family. You *gain*, not lose. The problem I see is that we have an awful lot of immature people who stop learning once they leave school. They presume, yup we're adults now, learning is over. Bullshit. The shift from idealogical to realistic and pragmatic (practical minded) grasp of the balances between needs, wants and responsibilities.

The perversion of Stevie-boys attitude is that he see family life ultimately as loss. TCs admonishment is get involved until you are comfortable with this notion of lost time, lost identity and loss of errant luxuries of youth (time, privacy, wealth to spend on oneself).

When the going gets rough, the ideologues tend to jump ship. They are content to call "a spade a spade", lay the blame for an unhappy reality at the feet of others, and call it a day, time to move on to another relationship. Make a new life. Start again. Problem is, they replay these unhappy recordings over and over again, never learning the lessons that must be learned to be content and happy with the outcome of your choices.

I believe this is a sort of backlash from the unhappiness of their elders, the ones I mentioned who really did labor and go overboard, who were unable to deal with the stresses and unhappiness of changing conditions in the labor markets, in the unfair doctrines of misguided hiring practices that put a history or english degree as unfair market value with practical degrees in business and the sciences, that pushed women and ethnic minorities who were often untrained and minimally skilled for certain jobs into equal hiring makeup positions, and that removed scientists from positions in management and research labs, thus hamstringing the mechanisms of innovation that fueled US domination in manufacturing and high-tech markets.

Couple this with rapid escalation in taxes, in the cost of essential goods (cars, homes, food, energy) and match that to a shrinking value dollar - and you have the built in need to a two income family.

The icing on the cake: a total lack of recognition of a need for social adaptations that allow for a smooth integration of new roles for women and shifting responsibilities in the home and in child rearing practices. Instead, the government meddled again, and stuck its foot into business not its own. It mandates by legal decisions in courts of law that men and women must be responsible for their actions..and yet, it promotes and supports doctrines that do the opposite.

So now we are faced with a world full of irresponsibility, lack of resolve and altruism, and chockablock with short-sightedness. Gone are the days of long planning and committment to a course of action (and admission that speed bumps do happen). If life starts to suck, why fix it, when you can schuck the burdens and start over again? Government does it, big business does it, and now the average citizen, lacking any responsible role models for mature emotional and ethical conduct - does it as well.

The pendulum has swung the other way. From those who grimly stuck out the burdens (while loosing site of the blessings), to those who expect the blessings to be bestowed, sans work and effort on their own part.

If everybody is owed, then everybody else is in debt.

It really doesn't matter if the Steves of the world wait until later. They don't grow and mature. They are stuck at the "me" stage of life. No partnership, no parenting situation, can remain healthy when such limited individuals are involved.

 

[KelJu]

Trouble, do you know if there are any better cultures to live in than our own? I know I see the things you talk about, and it is a big reason I am so cynical. I want to move from the US, because I think out culture is toxic. We are on a straight path to self destruction. If you had no ties what would you do?

If I decided to get the hell out of the US when I get finish my education, where would be a good place to go. I have never traveled abroad. The problem is that I believe that I will take my short comings with me. I wouldn't actually escape anything. We are all prisoners to our own character right?

Bah...who knows? These threads make my head hurt.

 

[Trouble]

Sorry, you can't run from these problems. They are indemic, inside you. You take them with you if you move somewhere else.

Understand the mistakes of others and yourself. Understand and appreciate the roles and responsibility of parenthood, of loving, longterm partnering. Work to be whole and healthy, a stand-alone that is made *even stronger* by pairing with a likeminded mate. The net loss is minimal and the net gains great - this must be the comprehension: that life can be satisfying and fulfilling as a single person - but that its even more rewarding, enriched by experiences that cannot be had a single, when careful pairing and family rearing occur..with coupled growth and learning throughout your life and that of your mate.

You never stop learning, maturing, getting better. I think this is how you are prepared for the rude awakenings that frequently occur in lives. The loss of parents, of friends, offspring. The sudden loss of jobs, of homes by economic and natural disasters. The creep of disease, mental and physical, disability and life changing medical circumstance that afflict many. Few are unscathed by their fourth and fifth decade; most have had several, sometimes in tightly bunched multiple losses and hardship events.

The secret to surviving this stress onslaught? Its a bit of mental and emotional maturity, health and wellness, the loving support of nuclear kin and close friends, and the wider support matrix of friends near and far who are there when you need them.

We forget about these support networks, of the under-tier of social consciousness and responsibility that *are* part and parcel of the innate good in humans. These qualities simply need nurturing. Social conditioning and peer group pressure via religious affiliation, community, neighborhood and family models of social good behavior and actions - all of this is important to fostering positive and beneficial actions for greater good among local folk.

A reminder of recent altruism on very large scale: the Indonesian tsunami and Hurricane Katrina. On smaller scale: the Red Cross, Habitat for Humanity, and the actions of social organizations and volunteers networked across this nation - and the planet - who act as many unified voices and hands to bring help and support where its needed.

I heartily recommend an easy habit: the doing of one good deed a week. Anonymously. Unplanned is best. Opportunity will always make itself plain, if you look and are prepared to act.

Act local, think global is more than just a catchy phrase.

 

[goob]

Trouble, do you know if there are any better cultures to live in than our own? I know I see the things you talk about, and it is a big reason I am so cynical. I want to move from the US, because I think out culture is toxic. We are on a straight path to self destruction. If you had no ties what would you do?

If I decided to get the hell out of the US when I get finish my education, where would be a good place to go. I have never traveled abroad. The problem is that I believe that I will take my short comings with me. I wouldn't actually escape anything. We are all prisoners to our own character right?

Bah...who knows? These threads make my head hurt.

Instead of leaving for good, save up $4000, pack some clothes and head to SE Asia (Or somewhere else) for 6-12 months. Don't work, just enjoy. And go on your own, I don't know much about yoy Kelju, but from reading some of your posts, in this thread and many others, I think this would do you the world of good.
The advantage of being on your own is that you'll have to meet strangers of a variety of nationalities and cultures, whom many will become great friends.
Not only will relying on yourself build your confidence right up, you'll come back much stronger as a person. You'd get away from the weed, and if you don't want too, there's some great shit already out there + a lot more including all sorts of prescription drugs avaiable OTC.
I thought like you do for a while and did this on my own. My friends thoght I was crazy, but I did it, and it's made me much stronger as a person. You'll come back with a different attitude towards being "stuck" or a "prisoner of character" as you put it. Oh and the stories you'll be able to tell....an anecdote for almost every situation.
Just my 2 cents......

 

[bigss75]

Thailand is a very nice inexpensive place, Im hoping later in my life to save about 100k and buy a very nice house given the price.

 

[DOMS]

Sorry, you can't run from these problems. They are indemic, inside you. You take them with you if you move somewhere else.

Understand the mistakes of others and yourself. Understand and appreciate the roles and responsibility of parenthood, of loving, longterm partnering. Work to be whole and healthy, a stand-alone that is made *even stronger* by pairing with a likeminded mate. The net loss is minimal and the net gains great - this must be the comprehension: that life can be satisfying and fulfilling as a single person - but that its even more rewarding, enriched by experiences that cannot be had a single, when careful pairing and family rearing occur..with coupled growth and learning throughout your life and that of your mate.

You never stop learning, maturing, getting better. I think this is how you are prepared for the rude awakenings that frequently occur in lives. The loss of parents, of friends, offspring. The sudden loss of jobs, of homes by economic and natural disasters. The creep of disease, mental and physical, disability and life changing medical circumstance that afflict many. Few are unscathed by their fourth and fifth decade; most have had several, sometimes in tightly bunched multiple losses and hardship events.

The secret to surviving this stress onslaught? Its a bit of mental and emotional maturity, health and wellness, the loving support of nuclear kin and close friends, and the wider support matrix of friends near and far who are there when you need them.

We forget about these support networks, of the under-tier of social consciousness and responsibility that *are* part and parcel of the innate good in humans. These qualities simply need nurturing. Social conditioning and peer group pressure via religious affiliation, community, neighborhood and family models of social good behavior and actions - all of this is important to fostering positive and beneficial actions for greater good among local folk.

A reminder of recent altruism on very large scale: the Indonesian tsunami and Hurricane Katrina. On smaller scale: the Red Cross, Habitat for Humanity, and the actions of social organizations and volunteers networked across this nation - and the planet - who act as many unified voices and hands to bring help and support where its needed.

I heartily recommend an easy habit: the doing of one good deed a week. Anonymously. Unplanned is best. Opportunity will always make itself plain, if you look and are prepared to act.

Act local, think global is more than just a catchy phrase.

A lot of what you wrote fits into my simple list for a happy life.

I don't actually have a list, I'm just writing down some the maxims that float around in my mind. It's not all inclusive, either.

- No one can make you feel anything.
- Most things in life don't amount to much of anything (don't sweat the small shit).
- Every time you learn something new, more options are open to you.
- There are few things in life as important as close relationships.
- Plan, and write down, your goals.
- Move forward towards your goals every day.
- Do your best to see things as they really are.
- Don't run away from problems; run at them.
- There's nothing mystical about karma.
- You have to grow old, you don't have be old.
- Don't waste time on people you don't like.
- You are the most limiting factor in your life.
- Daily to do lists are a God send.
- If you're feeling crappy, help someone else.

That's enough randoms thoughts for one day.

 

[DOMS]

Trouble, do you know if there are any better cultures to live in than our own?

If you do leave the country, make sure you move to another Western country.

Most of the world is pretty shitty.

 

[MCx2]

Trouble, do you know if there are any better cultures to live in than our own? I know I see the things you talk about, and it is a big reason I am so cynical. I want to move from the US, because I think out culture is toxic. We are on a straight path to self destruction. If you had no ties what would you do?

If I decided to get the hell out of the US when I get finish my education, where would be a good place to go. I have never traveled abroad. The problem is that I believe that I will take my short comings with me. I wouldn't actually escape anything. We are all prisoners to our own character right?

Bah...who knows? These threads make my head hurt.

I'm with ya here man. It seems that alot of things that make America such a "Great Nation" are the very things I hate about it. Then I realize how lucky I actually am to live here. When I turn off the TV, put down the newspapers, and go about my life the way I see fit, it's not so bad. I've learned over the last few years that as much as most people suck ass, the only things that matter are the things I can control. Fuck the "Toxicity" of America, and focus on what you can do to improve you. It's all you can do.

 

[MCx2]

A lot of what you wrote fits into my simple list for a happy life.

I don't actually have a list, I'm just writing down some the maxims that float around in my mind. It's not all inclusive, either.

- No one can make you feel anything.
- Most things in life don't amount to much of anything (don't sweat the small shit).
- Every time you learn something new, more options are open to you.
- There are few things in life as important as close relationships.
- Plan, and write down, your goals.
- Move forward towards your goals every day.
- Do your best to see things as they really are.
- Don't run away from problems; run at them.
- There's nothing mystical about karma.
- You have to grow old, you don't have be old.
- Don't waste time on people you don't like.
- You are the most limiting factor in your life.
- Daily to do lists are a God send.
- If you're feeling crappy, help someone else.

That's enough randoms thoughts for one day.

Good list man, I like it.

 

[Witchblade]

T-nation should stick to weightlifting articles. This cliché crap doesn't belong there.