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I think the main thing is this..........It's bad now and getting worse as far as expenses goes for the average person. The obama plan is unknown and that is what scares everyone. Is everyone willing to take the chance that things get double worse when this thing passes? I would like someone to explain to me how we can cover every illegal and everyone else right now that currently has no insurance (remember the liberals say that most americans don't have insurnce) without costing us more via premiums or tax increases. I don't think anyone can.
Our plan was horrible, having 4 kids.
My hospital bills were astronomical, thank god we now have better coverage.
My hospital bills were astronomical, thank god we now have better coverage.
That's my thing, I agree that it will be difficult to figrue this out, but it needs to be figured out, and soon. Do I believe this thing is going to get passed any time soon? Nope, we can't afford it right now, but that doesn't mean we can't work towards it ASAP. The same thing is going on with alternative fuels, we can't keep putting it off, we need to get away from our dependence on the middle east. I find it hard to believe that we can make it to the moon, but we can't fix health care. There are some smart mofos in this country. Unfortunately, very few smart people in politics, not to mention the pay offs from industry and such to prevent it from happening.
What about the rest of us doing our petty chores in the world to make the whole machine keep churning? Shouldn't we be able to earn more than massive debt because we can't afford the inevitable? We all get sick or have accidents right?
And lest you forget I was in the military I know about the earning of medical care, I know that many view the VA as a last resort to civilian medicine, but at least they have something to fall back on when the bills start to stack up. I think every working American and their family should have a similar safety net.
And for someone with so little faith in the government you sure did spend a lot of time in the service of them and gambling on their ability to fund you through old age......
so just because you had a military career you have special rights that civilians don't? many people bust their asses for 30 years in this country and pay their taxes and get no "lifetime health care", why are you special?
ALBOB,
My dad is 66 years old, he has worked since he was 16 years old (full time since 18 without a break), he spent 4 years in the US Airforce, that is 50 year of paying taxes, he spent 25 years as a FIREMAN, HE SAVED MANY LIVES PULLING PEOPLE OUT OF FIRES, DID YOU? and you know what he gets now...$700 month from Social Security, so he still has to work full time at the age of 66, not just for money to live, but also for medical benefits, he can't use Medicaid because he works full time and has medical coverage. He wants to retire next year at 67 but does not see how he will be able to live, so I am sure he will be working full time until at least 70. On top of that he has chronic bronchitis from spending 25 years fighting fires and this year he was diagnosed with skin cancer, he has already had 4 operations to remove it. BUT he still works full time and does not ask for any handouts.
EDIT: he has not collected any SS yet, he would have to quit his day job, if he quits his day job he will get the $700/month from SS.
My dad is 66 years old, he has worked since he was 16 years old (full time since 18 without a break), he spent 4 years in the US Airforce, that is 50 year of paying taxes, he spent 25 years as a FIREMAN, HE SAVED MANY LIVES PULLING PEOPLE OUT OF FIRES, DID YOU? and you know what he gets now...$700 month from Social Security, so he still has to work full time at the age of 66, not just for money to live, but also for medical benefits, he can't use Medicaid because he works full time and has medical coverage. He wants to retire next year at 67 but does not see how he will be able to live, so I am sure he will be working full time until at least 70. On top of that he has chronic bronchitis from spending 25 years fighting fires and this year he was diagnosed with skin cancer, he has already had 4 operations to remove it. BUT he still works full time and does not ask for any handouts.
EDIT: he has not collected any SS yet, he would have to quit his day job, if he quits his day job he will get the $700/month from SS.
They don't provide pensions for firefighteers in Denver?
At 66 he is lucky to have a job nowadays, years ago it was a little easier but most of the jobs a senior can do went overseas.
At 66 he is lucky to have a job nowadays, years ago it was a little easier but most of the jobs a senior can do went overseas.
There's been a trend lately of laying off people who are a few years away from retirement which I think is very despicable or making changes in the company that make it nearly impossible to remain for those close to retirement. My GF's work did something like that, she's in a union and senior members had the most lucrative shifts but then they closed the Restaurant where they were and now they have to start at the beginning to wait for someone to quit, get fired or die to get better positions again......some have had reductions of 60% of the income they had been making......
yes, but his "pension" was money that was put away in an account managed by an investor that worked for his fire dept, once he retired he was given control of it, he left it with the same investor and was pretty conservative with it, but unfortunately he still lost quite a bit after the market crashed as most seniors did the past few years, so he does not draw much out of it...he is hoping that it will regain value in a few years so he can start drawing a decent amount of money from it, but it would only be about $30k per year AND it is taxed, not clear. However, I think the cancer will take him before he ever gets a chance to retire.
That really sucks, a lot of people don't realize how much the stock market screwed seniors out of their money.yes, but his "pension" was money that was put away in an account managed by an investor that worked for his fire dept, once he retired he was given control of it, he left it with the same investor and was pretty conservative with it, but unfortunately he still lost quite a bit after the market crashed as most seniors did the past few years, so he does not draw much out of it...he is hoping that it will regain value in a few years so he can start drawing a decent amount of money from it, but it would only be about $30k per year AND it is taxed, not clear. However, I think the cancer will take him before he ever gets a chance to retire.
Taxed out of his money he earned unreal.
This is the reason many New yorkers in the past and present moved to the swamp...er I meant Florida. No state tax!
I worked at Motorola for 21 years...all I got was my 401k and half of it is gone...what little there was.
Now that we work for the State and City we can look forward to something when we retire.
20 years and nothing to show for it.
he works for Douglas County public schools making $15/hour helping the special ed kids, he has been doing this for almost 10 years, he gets summers off so he uses that time to work another full time job until school starts back up.
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First and foremost to Dale and Maniclion, I'm sorry. As you can probably tell that's a very touchy subject for me, but that doesn't excuse me acting like an ass. Please accept my appology.
To the OP, it's true I've never dealt with the issues of public healthcare and/or insurance for myself. But that's not to say I'm completely ignorant on the subject. I know very well how messed up the system is, having had to deal with it for over a decade with my father who fought a losing battle with cancer.
Look, I know the system is broken. It absolutely SUCKS. But, as I said before, I don't think having the government run it is the answer. When the government takes over costs go through the roof and quality goes through the floor.
Should the government get involved? Sure, I don't have a problem with that. But I absolutely HATE the idea of the government running ANYTHING that involves healthcare.
And I'm kind of surprised at the number of people on here that like the idea and WHO those people are. Tell me, how has the government handled the bodybuilding supplement industry? And they're not even running it. Is that what you want them to do with healthecare?
To the OP, it's true I've never dealt with the issues of public healthcare and/or insurance for myself. But that's not to say I'm completely ignorant on the subject. I know very well how messed up the system is, having had to deal with it for over a decade with my father who fought a losing battle with cancer.
Look, I know the system is broken. It absolutely SUCKS. But, as I said before, I don't think having the government run it is the answer. When the government takes over costs go through the roof and quality goes through the floor.
Should the government get involved? Sure, I don't have a problem with that. But I absolutely HATE the idea of the government running ANYTHING that involves healthcare.
And I'm kind of surprised at the number of people on here that like the idea and WHO those people are. Tell me, how has the government handled the bodybuilding supplement industry? And they're not even running it. Is that what you want them to do with healthecare?
Ohhh shit, now, I am a retired Marine. I didn't do 20 years, but I was retired due to my injuries acquired in combat in Iraq in 1991, but my injuries were critical, a 100% retired disability rating I have incurred. But I will never seek medical advice from the VA.
I, and eveyrone reading this message should realize this is not what you want, we are Americans, we are humans, we deserve the same medical treatment our elected officials have, why is this so hard to fathom ?
I, and eveyrone reading this message should realize this is not what you want, we are Americans, we are humans, we deserve the same medical treatment our elected officials have, why is this so hard to fathom ?
Perhaps you should look at the physicians for national health insurance web site.
Doctors, who have the most to gain or lose by this have put some thought into it without all the rhetoric.
As a whole, we are a conservative group so when a very conservative group starts to advocate something that seems non-conservative it may mean we have looked at this issue upside and down and come to the conclusion that this will be best, in the end for most people.
Physicians for a National Health Program | Single Payer Resources
once again,not a single doctor on this website advocates socialized medicine, hence the bold type. We are not going to be government employees like the docs in the VA system.
And remember, a majority of doctors are in favor of this as many recent polls show especially JAMA and the annals of medicine OpEdNews » Survey: Support for national health insurance grows among physicians. I can gaurantee you that these majority are not democrats or liberals , majority docs are still republicans yet a majority advocates a single health insurance system.
by the way , the link I provide surveyed showed 55% of general surgeons advocated a national health insurance system, and they are some of the most politcally conservative group I know.
Doctors, who have the most to gain or lose by this have put some thought into it without all the rhetoric.
As a whole, we are a conservative group so when a very conservative group starts to advocate something that seems non-conservative it may mean we have looked at this issue upside and down and come to the conclusion that this will be best, in the end for most people.
Physicians for a National Health Program | Single Payer Resources
once again,not a single doctor on this website advocates socialized medicine, hence the bold type. We are not going to be government employees like the docs in the VA system.
And remember, a majority of doctors are in favor of this as many recent polls show especially JAMA and the annals of medicine OpEdNews » Survey: Support for national health insurance grows among physicians. I can gaurantee you that these majority are not democrats or liberals , majority docs are still republicans yet a majority advocates a single health insurance system.
by the way , the link I provide surveyed showed 55% of general surgeons advocated a national health insurance system, and they are some of the most politcally conservative group I know.
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The FDA is such an entitiy, it is imperfect , but without it we would be selling contaminated copy cat inferior prescription medicines and have melamine tainted foods and contaminated heparin intravenous drugs that come out of a country like China which has taken a libertarian hands off approach to the regulation of foods and drugs.
Also, without federal tight regulation of medical licenses anyone can hang up a shingle and claim to be a doctor and do surgery as they do in some countries without ever having to go to medical school, residency or board certification.
Yes maam, this is all a game, and I for one am tired of playing this game. I've played by the rules for too many years now, a change must come. Isn't that what we elected Obama for ?
Money is the issue, money is the key.
I am afraid there may not be much change. The insurance companies have such a rich and powerful lobby. Do the 45 million uninsured or the underinsured have a lobby? No.
Realistically, a plan that does away with private health insurance is going to face intense opposition from the insurance and the for-profit health care industries. A plan that creates a huge government program without private sector involvement also is not going to be popular up on capital hill.
In the end, my prediction is that Obama is currently playing a brilliant game of poker, he is going to convince the insurance lobby that he will forge ahead with some public option that he will finally get private insurance to recind or "reform" some of their abusive practices like dropping a cancer patient newly diagnosed with cancer or financially devastating penalties for previous conditions etc etc. In the end, we will hopefully achieve some insurance reform that is much needed in this country. That is my prediction.
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Realistically, a plan that does away with private health insurance is going to face intense opposition from the insurance and the for-profit health care industries. A plan that creates a huge government program without private sector involvement also is not going to be popular up on capital hill.
In the end, my prediction is that Obama is currently playing a brilliant game of poker, he is going to convince the insurance lobby that he will forge ahead with some public option that he will finally get private insurance to recind or "reform" some of their abusive practices like dropping a cancer patient newly diagnosed with cancer or financially devastating penalties for previous conditions etc etc. In the end, we will hopefully achieve some insurance reform that is much needed in this country. That is my prediction.
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I favor gov. supported healthcare, not gov. run nor managed health care. I've been the recipient of Gov. Medical service and I know the differences.Should the government get involved? Sure, I don't have a problem with that. But I absolutely HATE the idea of the government running ANYTHING that involves healthcare.
And I'm kind of surprised at the number of people on here that like the idea and WHO those people are. Tell me, how has the government handled the bodybuilding supplement industry? And they're not even running it. Is that what you want them to do with healthecare?
I just feel smarter reading your posts!
Agreed. We've to make a change, this is the one constant !
In my life, I've never thought a black man as pres.
That has transpired..
why stop there ?
National health care...we have models...?
First and foremost to Dale and Maniclion, I'm sorry. As you can probably tell that's a very touchy subject for me, but that doesn't excuse me acting like an ass. Please accept my appology.
To the OP, it's true I've never dealt with the issues of public healthcare and/or insurance for myself. But that's not to say I'm completely ignorant on the subject. I know very well how messed up the system is, having had to deal with it for over a decade with my father who fought a losing battle with cancer.
Look, I know the system is broken. It absolutely SUCKS. But, as I said before, I don't think having the government run it is the answer. When the government takes over costs go through the roof and quality goes through the floor.
Should the government get involved? Sure, I don't have a problem with that. But I absolutely HATE the idea of the government running ANYTHING that involves healthcare.
And I'm kind of surprised at the number of people on here that like the idea and WHO those people are. Tell me, how has the government handled the bodybuilding supplement industry? And they're not even running it. Is that what you want them to do with healthecare?
Good, then I rescind my previous apology and commence shunning you.
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I PARTLY disagree. The FDA does do a good job of protecting us from dangerous/inferior producs, granted. But they're also a roadblock to progress. How many vital drugs have gone decades sitting on the FDA shelf waiting for approval while people who desperately needed those drugs died?
It's ironic that you cite the FDA because they're a very good illustration of my exact point, who's going to monitor the monitor? When the government takes over, who watches them? The FDA is completely autonomous, they can do whatever they please and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. The EPA is another perfect example of this.
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Now we're starting to move toward the center and that's definitely something I can support.
If the government moves in and helps those that can't help themselves, I don't have a problem with that. But don't mess with those that CAN help themselves.
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Good, then I rescind my previous apology and commence shunning you.
I'm not seeing this as a negative.
you asked for an example of a government run operation that wasn't completly screwed up. In a completely libertarian philosophy there would be no FDA, look at china. That's all.
Yes, the FDA is more conservative than its europen counterpart, but that is due in part to the fear of approving problematic drugs in such a toxic litiginous atmosphere against drug companies here vs europe and may prevent useful drugs from reaching the market at a much more expedient matter. In europe , where the drug companies have a much freer reign, there have been numerous drugs that were freely available for prescription 5 years or earlier and post market analysis showed that they were highly dangerous. (ximelagatran, a novel blood thinner comes to mind which caused fulminant liver failure, already being widely used in europe), At the same time, europeans benefitted early from some useful drugs.
In europe, they see the novel new drugs earlier, but the general population play a greater part in being human guinea pigs.
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In addition, the general population has no idea what a failure the privatized medicare and medicaid plans are. Not a single doc in my county takes those plans, not because they don't pay us, in fact they pay us more, but the beaurocracy was so atrocious, we collectively decided that dealing with the lesser paying government plan was far better. So I know how far worse things can be when private corporations try to run a government service.
http://www.citizen.org/documents/pporeportfinal.pdf
Medicare Advantage Windfall Payments
The upshot, the privatized industry is less efficient and more costly than basic government run medicare and medicaid.
http://www.citizen.org/documents/pporeportfinal.pdf
Medicare Advantage Windfall Payments
The upshot, the privatized industry is less efficient and more costly than basic government run medicare and medicaid.
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