Questions About TRT Doc, Test. Advice please ?

[spaemp3]

Hey guys I got a few questions for you yall. I'd appreciate if you could take a shot at answering any .

I have an appointment with a Trt doc. She was recommended to me from some guys at gym. I've had low testerone for last few years before I did any cycles. After doing a lot of research I realized TRT is right for me even at 28. When I have taken testosterone i've noticed a lot of benefits to my life i've had Ed issues Im way to young for that as well as a host of other problems related to low testerone throughout my life. My family has low testosterone in general.

I dont have work infront of me but I know off hand my free is
245/ng ml when I tested at age 26. I'm 28 now and had it tested a few months ago again and Free test or total range was way low again 240/ng ml.

I did 2 cycles between the 2 years of testerone tests. I'm on pct now and its been 6 weeks since my last shot of enathate. This is my last week of nolvadex (waited 2 weeks till after shot this is week 4 of pct) my appointment is on thursday. I couldnt stand clomid in last cycle this was a test/tren cycle and ran nolvadex only for pct.

I understand my test levels might still be low. Wich they have been before I ever did a cycle anyways . Do you guys think it will be abnormally low at this point ?

Since I just finished nolvadex will the effects to the rest of my endo system raise any other flags on any other points of the test that doctors give for trt ?

what can I say to change a doctors mind that testerone shots are right for me over creams, pellets or gels ?

Also im on week 3 of IGF-1 Des/ MGF cycle will that alter my tests at all and raise flags ?

I'm just hoping I have a doctor thats open minded enough to let me do shots twice a week. I just cant see one going heres a bottle of test and some sharps hit yourself twice a week. Does it work that way ?


I was honest with another endo with all the drugs I did (Been sober over a year now thanks to AA/NA, recovered heroin/coke addict) before checking this one out he thought i needed trt too but was so frustrating I went elsewhere. just so i'm hoping i'll have more luck this time around.

Thank you for taking time to answer this im anxious I feel trt would greatly benefit my life. Every doctor i've seen has commented on my low testosterone in my file but It took me a long time to getting around to it now i'm hopeful ill get the treatment I need.

 

[spaemp3]

I found my test results
Testosterone 44.1pg/ml ,
Free testosterone 86.9 ng/dl
Bio Test 240 ng/dl

Going in tomorrow, wish my luck bros

 

[TonyMack]

Are you in America? The US lab systems use Nano Grams per Deci Liter. So I'm a little confused. Just a side note, at your age the doctors in the US are very unlikely to prescribe testosterone if you are above 300 ng/dl. Bio Free test of 240 ng/dl would put your total way above this range.

 

[spaemp3]

yes I am an American
it says range is 250-1100 on test and this was noticed from doctors before me so I thought it was a pretty good leg to stand on... you said yourself above 300 nowhere do i indicate im above 300 ? am I missing something ?

 

[TonyMack]

If you had a blood testosterone test in the united states it would be measured in ng/dl. Saliva tests (which are unreliable) are in pg/ml, and the range is 30-142, so 44.1 is well within the medial range (on the low side for athletic purposes, but normal for medial standards). Bioavailable Testosterone is Free T + T loosely bound to albumin, and the "normal" range is 120-600.

The 300 range I was referring to is the Total Testosterone reading in ng/dl, if your BioAvailable is 240, your total would be somewhere in the 450 range depending on SHBG and Albumin.

So, with that being said, a medical doctor would not be following AMA guidelines to give someone your age testosterone therapy.

I'm not a doctor, but I do know a few things about testosterone therapy, and I urge you to consider all your options, and only go on test if you need it for basic quality of life reasons.

Post up your results from the full hormone panel and I'll answer some more questions for you. Good luck.

 

[spaemp3]

If you had a blood testosterone test in the united states it would be measured in ng/dl. Saliva tests (which are unreliable) are in pg/ml, and the range is 30-142, so 44.1 is well within the medial range (on the low side for athletic purposes, but normal for medial standards). Bioavailable Testosterone is Free T + T loosely bound to albumin, and the "normal" range is 120-600.

The 300 range I was referring to is the Total Testosterone reading in ng/dl, if your BioAvailable is 240, your total would be somewhere in the 450 range depending on SHBG and Albumin.

So, with that being said, a medical doctor would not be following AMA guidelines to give someone your age testosterone therapy.

I'm not a doctor, but I do know a few things about testosterone therapy, and I urge you to consider all your options, and only go on test if you need it for basic quality of life reasons.

Post up your results from the full hormone panel and I'll answer some more questions for you. Good luck.

they were both blood and it was in the united states. Kaiser Permanente was first one and other through another doctors office which i believe used qwest diagnostics. Well one big problem has been not getting it up I got prescribed viagra and it gets costly.. well see ill post up tomorrow what I find out.

Heres a more exact copy of the results

Testerone 44.1 pg/ml (46-224)
Free
testerone 86.9pg/dl (110-575)
BIO
Bio test 240 ng/dl (250-1100)

 

[TonyMack]

I've been using testosterone for many years and I'm not familiar with these measurement units or reference ranges. Best of luck to you.

 

[spaemp3]

K well I got back from the doc and good news is she prescribed me test\cyp suppose to be at my house overnighted from east coast. Sent me to do a full panel and come back in a week as well as an IGF/GH work up to see about getting me on some HGH as well.

 

[Ezskanken]

Shucks man, good deal with the test c, insurance cover all?

 

[tommygunz]

Test and HGH from Kaiser? Sounds too good to be true. Pituitary adenoma is about the only way to be prescribed rHgh by an Endo.

 

[spaemp3]

Test and HGH from Kaiser? Sounds too good to be true. Pituitary adenoma is about the only way to be prescribed rHgh by an Endo.

No no .. outside specialist I was tested by kaiser at one point for testerone that I posted up but i'm with blue shield now but ya on that note that is why i left kaiser they are only good if nothings ever wrong with you i wouldn't expect shit from them. I know what you mean ..

My friend who's a cardiologist asked them to do tests for her daughter who had a hole in her heart and they said your nuts. She didnt tell them she worked from Sutter hospital came back and showed em the workup she did on her daughter and they still made her go through a ton of shit after admitting their bad. Ive had nothing but bad experiences with kaiser same with my family. therefore I switched and seen a specialist outside of kaiser.

 

[spaemp3]

Shucks man, good deal with the test c, insurance cover all?

200mg/10ml Test CYP 200mg/ IM weekly $40 w/ 100 Needles + $20 for overnight shipping

Very happy with my treatment so far much more than last endo I'd seen. I realize i didnt mention this and this probably is huge in relation to how the hormones are perscribed, but this doctor is a surgeron who who has a wellness/anti-aging clinic on side of surgery pratice.

Thats probably why im getting a differnt level of service , since its all out of pocket. Even then best i've found in sacramento area. Other bio-identical/anti aging/hormone replacement docs want $300-600 for labs and 300-450 for consult.

Anyways Doc only charged me $150 for hour long office visit +40 for Test. To me this is way worth out of pocket. I Doc every 3 months for follow ups.

I decided going with this reccomendation from guys at gym who had great things to say in how doc treats patients. My last endo wanted to do 2 shots a month. I even brang up what about half life of test and he just shot me the sonny boy im older than you dont question me look. he was 81 yrs old. This doc is younger and a lot more knowledgable seems to really want patients best intrests at heart and work with them.

I'm going back tommorow to get some more tests Ill ask myself but wanted to hear from you guys. I've read its better to split injection of CYP/ bi- weekly cause half-life ill ask doctor too, whats your guys on TRT experinces ? Doc has me 200/mg-week right now

Overall paying out of pocket for this beats spending even more money out of pocket $$$ for viagra. $20 a pill and sometimes I needed 2 everytime im thinking imma hit it. Thats $40 a pop. Cheap whores start looking affordable at that point..

 

[bulldogz]

200mg/10ml Test CYP 200mg/ IM weekly $40 w/ 100 Needles + $20 for overnight shipping

Very happy with my treatment so far much more than last endo I'd seen. I realize i didnt mention this and this probably is huge in relation to how the hormones are perscribed, but this doctor is a surgeron who who has a wellness/anti-aging clinic on side of surgery pratice.

Thats probably why im getting a differnt level of service , since its all out of pocket. Even then best i've found in sacramento area. Other bio-identical/anti aging/hormone replacement docs want $300-600 for labs and 300-450 for consult.

Anyways Doc only charged me $150 for hour long office visit +40 for Test. To me this is way worth out of pocket. I Doc every 3 months for follow ups.

I decided going with this reccomendation from guys at gym who had great things to say in how doc treats patients. My last endo wanted to do 2 shots a month. I even brang up what about half life of test and he just shot me the sonny boy im older than you dont question me look. he was 81 yrs old. This doc is younger and a lot more knowledgable seems to really want patients best intrests at heart and work with them.

I'm going back tommorow to get some more tests Ill ask myself but wanted to hear from you guys. I've read its better to split injection of CYP/ bi- weekly cause half-life ill ask doctor too, whats your guys on TRT experinces ? Doc has me 200/mg-week right now

Overall paying out of pocket for this beats spending even more money out of pocket $$$ for viagra. $20 a pill and sometimes I needed 2 everytime im thinking imma hit it. Thats $40 a pop. Cheap whores start looking affordable at that point..

Damn that doc was quick to put you on TRT..

My current endo has me on 200mg ever other wk...also 2 shots per month...feel like shit in the middle/towards the end of the 2nd wk...might have to get myself a doc who also has an anti-aging clinic..plus my state only allows to fill a script for a months supply which in my case it's only 2ml per month..

Keep the 200mg of Cyp per wk going..no need to change but you can take 2 shots per wk of 100mg each..

I personally would just do 1 shot per wk of 200mg with the long ester

 

[spaemp3]

Damn that doc was quick to put you on TRT..

My current endo has me on 200mg ever other wk...also 2 shots per month...feel like shit in the middle/towards the end of the 2nd wk...might have to get myself a doc who also has an anti-aging clinic..plus my state only allows to fill a script for a months supply which in my case it's only 2ml per month..

Keep the 200mg of Cyp per wk going..no need to change but you can take 2 shots per wk of 100mg each..

I personally would just do 1 shot per wk of 200mg with the long ester

that sucks, what state ya in bro ? I'm guessing california is a lot easier to find anti-aging doctors and in my experince its also easier to find then a good endo unfortunatly in my area. good luck bro

ya i meant to say is 1 shot per week or e3d/bi-weekly of same dosage better.

Doc is a neurosurgeon as well I hadnt seen any other non-endo doctors who deal with hormones with any kind of experince like that so I thought I was in good hands.

 

[TonyMack]

Hey good to hear things are moving along for you. Still like to see the full blood workup when you get it back.

I use approximately 125 mgs test wk, split doses e3d. I also use HCG, and this puts me in the 1250 to 1400 Total Test range. The bio available and free calculations are more expensive, so I just monitor total T and E2, along with CBC and metabolic panels. Been doing it a while now and feel the HCG and DHEA are very important components for sexual function. For viagra, buy the generics from alldaychemist, it's the same thing and only a fraction of the cost.

 

[independent]

Hey good to hear things are moving along for you. Still like to see the full blood workup when you get it back.

I use approximately 125 mgs test wk, split doses e3d. I also use HCG, and this puts me in the 1250 to 1400 Total Test range. The bio available and free calculations are more expensive, so I just monitor total T and E2, along with CBC and metabolic panels. Been doing it a while now and feel the HCG and DHEA are very important components for sexual function. For viagra, buy the generics from alldaychemist, it's the same thing and only a fraction of the cost.

This right here^^^ Do your shots every 3 1/2 days, keeps your levels nice and stable. I go back to my doc next week for my first check up and going to ask for hcg.

Also be careful with alldaychemist, heard of a lot of credit fraud from them.

 

[TonyMack]

This right here^^^ Do your shots every 3 1/2 days, keeps your levels nice and stable. I go back to my doc next week for my first check up and going to ask for hcg.

Also be careful with alldaychemist, heard of a lot of credit fraud from them.

I use a prepaid visa card for all international orders. I would not use a debit or a card with a high limit.

Btw, ADC carries HCG if your doc doesn't want to prescribe.

 

[spaemp3]

How do these generic viagra places work online ? do I take my local script and fax online and get it cheaper ? I hear a lot are knock offs. I wouldnt mind buying cheap knock offs that actually worked..

I had a room-mate order some online for $2-3 a piece no script and they worked just as good as mine for $20 a pop but I'm not in contact with anymore.

Any luck with liquid cialis ? Is that the shit porn stars inject in their dick ? or like liquid AI's ?

Ya I forgot to follow up with need for AI/HCG ill bring it up next appointment Idk why wasnt brought up. Perhaps waiting to see what my levels are after injections ? I'd read somewhere some people dont need an AI but shouldnt everyone still be on hcg ? With being on HCG does it make sense to run AI too ?

 

[TonyMack]

How do these generic viagra places work online ? do I take my local script and fax online and get it cheaper ? I hear a lot are knock offs. I wouldnt mind buying cheap knock offs that actually worked..

I had a room-mate order some online for $2-3 a piece no script and they worked just as good as mine for $20 a pop but I'm not in contact with anymore.

Any luck with liquid cialis ? Is that the shit porn stars inject in their dick ? or like liquid AI's ?

I've ordered from a canadian pharmacy that did require a script, and I've ordered from ADC which doesn't. Yes it's a knockoff, but works just the same. I prefer the Cipla product to the other generics, just because they have GMP approved facilities. I have no idea about the liquid products and wouldn't even consider putting a needle into my penis. Period. Injectable products have to be refined and completely sterile, I highly doubt the liquid v or c on the internet is the same thing.

Ya I forgot to follow up with need for AI/HCG ill bring it up next appointment Idk why wasnt brought up. Perhaps waiting to see what my levels are after injections ? I'd read somewhere some people dont need an AI but shouldnt everyone still be on hcg ? With being on HCG does it make sense to run AI too ?

For long term treatment, due to hormone cascade I'd definitely consider HCG, DHEA, and something to control estrogen. Most people find Anastrozole to be the AI of choice, just because its effective, and mild enough to easily dial in. It's all based on the Estradiol numbers and the only way to tell is bloodwork. Some guys don't need an AI with lower doses. Mainly it depends on body fat and diet. If you have low body fat, clean diet, and an efficient liver, then an AI might not be necessary with low doses of test/hcg.

I sincerely hope you understand the commitment end of a treatment protocol, you'll likely be on this for life and most describe it as a roller coaster. I highly recommend anyone considering this to exhaust all options before committing. Most doctors don't know shit, and they are hard nosed about outdated protocols and don't like being questioned. Just read as much as you can, and do your best to understand the symphony of hormones, and how it all cascades with each adjustment. Keep detailed records of all blood tests and ask for each lab report.

 

[bulldogz]

Hey good to hear things are moving along for you. Still like to see the full blood workup when you get it back.

I use approximately 125 mgs test wk, split doses e3d. I also use HCG, and this puts me in the 1250 to 1400 Total Test range. The bio available and free calculations are more expensive, so I just monitor total T and E2, along with CBC and metabolic panels. Been doing it a while now and feel the HCG and DHEA are very important components for sexual function. For viagra, buy the generics from alldaychemist, it's the same thing and only a fraction of the cost.

Is this just off your TRT dose?

If so, doesn't your doc say that too much for TRT?

 

[TonyMack]

Is this just off your TRT dose?

If so, doesn't your doc say that too much for TRT?

If I used a doctor, likely he/she would say that's too much, but I don't want a quack in charge of my treatment, so I'm "self directed" at the moment. Bloodwork from pirvatemdlabs and lots of reading on the subject. I think I have the program dialed in right now, perhaps one day I'll go legit and get a script, but I certainly don't have any problems getting what I need from the black market.

I say 125 mgs a week, but I dose every 3 days, so a more accurate way to say that would be 125 mgs every 6 days. I also use 500 iu HCG e3d, and think that counts for a couple hundred points on the total, but don't really know for sure. Most treatment protocols call for 200 mgs a week of test c without HCG, or 100-150 with HCG (250 ius 2x wk). In fact, one of the leading TRT docs in the USA, Dr Crisler's protocol is 100 mgs test 1x wk, and 250 ius on the 2 days before the T shot. He seems to think this protocol keeps bloods stable, but I feel better with more frequent shots, and a higher HCG dose. An old school juicer taught me to inject 1/2 the half life. So if the half life of the ester is 6 days (which I use Enanthate), then you inject e3d. On a side note, I'm also on proviron 100 mgs day, so I can't really say I'm on "TRT".

Does your doc have you on HCG or DHEA?

 

[IAMLEGEND1]

Anyway you can help me out Spae, I live in the same area just a little South and need help finding a doc.

 

[bulldogz]

If I used a doctor, likely he/she would say that's too much, but I don't want a quack in charge of my treatment, so I'm "self directed" at the moment. Bloodwork from pirvatemdlabs and lots of reading on the subject. I think I have the program dialed in right now, perhaps one day I'll go legit and get a script, but I certainly don't have any problems getting what I need from the black market.

I say 125 mgs a week, but I dose every 3 days, so a more accurate way to say that would be 125 mgs every 6 days. I also use 500 iu HCG e3d, and think that counts for a couple hundred points on the total, but don't really know for sure. Most treatment protocols call for 200 mgs a week of test c without HCG, or 100-150 with HCG (250 ius 2x wk). In fact, one of the leading TRT docs in the USA, Dr Crisler's protocol is 100 mgs test 1x wk, and 250 ius on the 2 days before the T shot. He seems to think this protocol keeps bloods stable, but I feel better with more frequent shots, and a higher HCG dose. An old school juicer taught me to inject 1/2 the half life. So if the half life of the ester is 6 days (which I use Enanthate), then you inject e3d. On a side note, I'm also on proviron 100 mgs day, so I can't really say I'm on "TRT".

Does your doc have you on HCG or DHEA?

Got ya..I was scripted test e as well..I also think I would also feel better with frequent shots or to keep bloods more stable, but the 200mg for the first wk does pretty good for me for now

No my doc does not have me on neither hcg or dhea...I was just put on TRT a month ago and I am going to try and get my doc to script me 200mg ew instead of eow...

My first check since being put on TRT is in about 2wks from now...

 

[caaraa]

Well, these are precisely I need now.

 

[spaemp3]

Anyway you can help me out Spae, I live in the same area just a little South and need help finding a doc.

Ya ill try n remember to take care of you when I get off work today.

 

[Kleen]

I think he hit the nail on the head here with the Anti-aging, those guys are no longer in it for the health side of it. Just making some extra money. My wifes endo specializes in HRT and anti-aging. Dude has used so much botox on himself he looks plastic. Will do the same for anyone else. When he described things to my wife he said those normals are a huge and useless range. You have to go with how someone feels. SO say a 350 testosterone reading would not prevent him from prescribing you higher doses so long as you suffered from "symptoms" of low test.

I am finishing up a round of clomid right now trying to get my levels back up to snuff. When I go back to get them tested I will go to him instead of my PCP.

 

[((Vibe))]

I think he hit the nail on the head here with the Anti-aging, those guys are no longer in it for the health side of it. Just making some extra money. My wifes endo specializes in HRT and anti-aging. Dude has used so much botox on himself he looks plastic. Will do the same for anyone else. When he described things to my wife he said those normals are a huge and useless range. You have to go with how someone feels. SO say a 350 testosterone reading would not prevent him from prescribing you higher doses so long as you suffered from "symptoms" of low test.

I am finishing up a round of clomid right now trying to get my levels back up to snuff. When I go back to get them tested I will go to him instead of my PCP.

Hey, bro. I'm in the Houston area as well. If you have good luck with everything would you please PM me the contact info of that endo?

 

[((Vibe))]

I have no idea about the liquid products and wouldn't even consider putting a needle into my penis. Period. Injectable products have to be refined and completely sterile, I highly doubt the liquid v or c on the internet is the same thing.

He is referring to alprostadil. It is a sterile injectable made for injecting into the penis. I've seen it on some of the sites that I buy sildenafil off of, it's something like $40 for one injection. Viagra works for me, I think I'll pass!!

 

[TonyMack]

Got ya..I was scripted test e as well..I also think I would also feel better with frequent shots or to keep bloods more stable, but the 200mg for the first wk does pretty good for me for now

No my doc does not have me on neither hcg or dhea...I was just put on TRT a month ago and I am going to try and get my doc to script me 200mg ew instead of eow...

My first check since being put on TRT is in about 2wks from now...

Has your doc talked to you about injection timing and blood draws? If you inject 200 mgs of test and get blood drawn around day 3 or 4, you will be way out of range, and I suspect you feel great from day 3 to about day 8 or 9, then start to come back to the low end of "normal". Technically you will still be "in range" the whole time, but not what I call dialed in.

Just a tip, if you are trying to get your doc to prescribe higher doses, back off to 100 mgs 14 days before the blood draw and tell her you did a full 200 mgs on this date. This will give you blood results to substantiate your request for higher amounts and more frequent injections.

Good luck and keep us posted on your program.

 

[bulldogz]

Has your doc talked to you about injection timing and blood draws? If you inject 200 mgs of test and get blood drawn around day 3 or 4, you will be way out of range, and I suspect you feel great from day 3 to about day 8 or 9, then start to come back to the low end of "normal". Technically you will still be "in range" the whole time, but not what I call dialed in.

Just a tip, if you are trying to get your doc to prescribe higher doses, back off to 100 mgs 14 days before the blood draw and tell her you did a full 200 mgs on this date. This will give you blood results to substantiate your request for higher amounts and more frequent injections.

Good luck and keep us posted on your program.

Thanks brotha!

I've been drawing bloods for awhile now and have a good idea of when to draw blood for many test including for T levels, but thank you.

I am set to draw bloods next monday at 9am for my endo, but I pinned 200mg of test e (ugl test) this past sunday which is 8 days before the blood test...I was thinking of only pinning 100mg...maybe the ugl I'm using for TRT is underdosed...

The reason I am using ugl is cuz I have tons of the stuff and also would like to know for myself if these fuckers are selling what they claim on selling...plus saving my pharm grade stuff for a real rainy day

I will probably use your tip to tell you the truth!