my legs day..

[luka5z]

Squats 4 x 10-12,
Leg Extensions 3 x 10-12
Leg Curls 3 x 6-10,
SLDL 3 x 10-12
Standing Calf Raise (one big continous dropset),
Walking DB Lunges 12 steps each leg (done for 3 rounds)


what do you think about this routine? sadly I dont have access to leg press...

 

[the_predator]

Do you have a hack squat machine? Maybe think about sissy squats? Any other leg equipment available?

 

[IR0NASSAULT]

I'd say you are good to go. Pretty close to the same thing I just started doing and my legs are growing quick.

 

[luka5z]

Do you have a hack squat machine? Maybe think about sissy squats? Any other leg equipment available?

I do, but it is quite odd. More like lever-squat machine. I cant do squats with full range of motion on these. I cant even reach parallel. So i consider it useless...

Sissy squats are extremely uncomfortable for me and i dont think they are good mass builder, are they?

 

[Cork]

Why only one day?

 

[CaptainNapalm]

Good exercise selection but my legs always responded best to hitting them twice weekly. That's a lot of work in one session. Consider splitting that workload into two days? If not, looks good.

 

[the_predator]

I have used sissy squats with great success in the past to cut up my quads but if it is mass you strive for then no, they will not build mass.

 

[PushAndPull]

I would add an additional hamstring dominant exercise for balance, and alternate a different routine where the first exercise is the deadlfit (From the floor) Leg extensions and hamstring curls should be the last exercise performed.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Squats 4 x 10-12,
Leg Extensions 3 x 10-12
Leg Curls 3 x 6-10,
SLDL 3 x 10-12
Standing Calf Raise (one big continous dropset),
Walking DB Lunges 12 steps each leg (done for 3 rounds)


what do you think about this routine? sadly I dont have access to leg press...

Leg Extensions

Drop the leg extension. If if for the most part a worthless exercise.

Shear Force

Also, the leg extension places a lot of shear force on the knees. In plain English, that means leg extension beat the crap out you knees.

PushandPull

As he stated, perform you SLDL after your squats. You want to perform compound movement first in a program.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Do you have a hack squat machine? Maybe think about sissy squats? Any other leg equipment available?

Hack Squats and Knee Shear Force

Hack Squats drive the knees beyond the toes. This placea a lot of shear force on the knees.

So, I am not a proponent of Hack Squats.

Sissy Squats

When performed "Vince Gironda" style, these place a lot of shear force on the knees, as well.

Minimizing Shear Force

Most of the shear force from Hack Squats and Sissy Squats can be eliminated by making sure you keep your shins perpendicular to the floor when performing them.

The same holds true with squats, leg press, lung, etc.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I would add an additional hamstring dominant exercise for balance, and alternate a different routine where the first exercise is the deadlfit (From the floor) Leg extensions and hamstring curls should be the last exercise performed.

Hamstring Work

The hamstrings are involved in the squat and even moreso in lunges. That combined with SLDL and Leg Curls means he's getting enough hamstring work.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[PushAndPull]

^^disagree. Lunges, like squats are a quad dominant exercise. Hamstring curls and leg extensions are equally worthless, so he needs another hamstring dominant exercise.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

^^disagree. Lunges, like squats are a quad dominant exercise. Hamstring curls and leg extensions are equally worthless, so he needs another hamstring dominant exercise.

Hamstring vs Quad Movements

The ratio of hamstring to quad movement is right.

1) Two hamstring dominate movemets. SLDL and Leg Curls.

2) Two quad dominate movements. Squat and Lunges, as you noted.

Lombard's paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"When rising to stand from a sitting or squatting position, both the hamstrings and quadriceps contract at the same time, despite their being antagonists to each other."

Stretched Muscle

The long a muscle is stretched, the greater it's involvement. Thus, ...

1) The lower you go in a squat or a lunge, the greater the hamstrings are involved, worked.

2) The further you push you butt back in a "Powerlifting" Squat, the more hamstring activation occurs.

Co-activation of the hamstrings and quadr... [Biomed Sci Instrum. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI

"...quadriceps and hamstring muscles co-contraction occur during a maximum lunge in the front leg when it is in the flexed position."

Summary

1) There is a 1:1 Quad to Hamstring movement in his program.

2) The hamstrings are also involved in squat and lunges. While squat and lunges are quad dominate they also work the hamstrings, as well.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Merkaba]

Hamstring vs Quad Movements

The ratio of hamstring to quad movement is right.

1) Two hamstring dominate movemets. SLDL and Leg Curls.

2) Two quad dominate movements. Squat and Lunges, as you noted.

Lombard's paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"When rising to stand from a sitting or squatting position, both the hamstrings and quadriceps contract at the same time, despite their being antagonists to each other."

Stretched Muscle

The long a muscle is stretched, the greater it's involvement. Thus, ...

1) The lower you go in a squat or a lunge, the greater the hamstrings are involved, worked.

2) The further you push you butt back in a "Powerlifting" Squat, the more hamstring activation occurs.

Co-activation of the hamstrings and quadr... [Biomed Sci Instrum. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI

"...quadriceps and hamstring muscles co-contraction occur during a maximum lunge in the front leg when it is in the flexed position."

Summary

1) There is a 1:1 Quad to Hamstring movement in his program.

2) The hamstrings are also involved in squat and lunges. While squat and lunges are quad dominate they also work the hamstrings, as well.

Kenny Croxdale

My fandom of Kenny is growing by the hour. I plan on doing some writing/vids about this same phenomenon.

Exactly. And this is part of the reason why so many people have knee problems. They don't go low enough to bring up the strength in the hams before trying to either go heavy with squats, large sets, or do a myriad of other "leg exercises" that are slightly more quad dominant but they make them even more quad dominant by doing them half ass, cause they can't/won't/hurt to go parallel to the driving force. Thus the hams are taken more out of the equation, the quads continue to get stronger in proportion to the hams and the cycle perpetuates, especially when "progress" is seen in the quads...What dude really looks for progress in the hams? We as a civilization are posterior-ly weak. And we perpetuate it.

 

[PushAndPull]

My mistake. Assuming he drops the leg extensions, I meant to say he needs a different ham dominant exercise, not a additional one.
I simply would never have leg curls account for half of my hamstring work.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

My mistake. Assuming he drops the leg extensions, I meant to say he needs a different ham dominant exercise, not a additional one.
I simply would never have leg curls account for half of my hamstring work.

Leg Curls

I am not a fan of leg curls. However, they are acceptable.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[sassy69]

Many, among them, my chiropractor, will argue that leg press just puts excessive stress on your lower back / spine. I don't think you lose by not having access to a leg press. FWIW I"ve been able to rig up a vertical leg press on the smith machine at my gym. I'm good up to 5 plates (per side). After that for some reason its hard to roll the bar lock w/ my feet to safely compete the reps.

I would agree - I split my ham & quad-dominant work - your legs are your biggest muscle group, and considering how many muscle groups full under the "upper body" grouping, IMO it is worthwhile to split up your upper body work w/ 2 leg days to give your upper body a rest.

 

[Merkaba]

I'm also not a fan of the leg press. I hear of plenty of lower back issues. I sometimes do moderate weight and I keep the lordosis but I never go high weight.

 

[PushAndPull]

Leg Curls

I am not a fan of leg curls. However, they are acceptable.

Kenny Croxdale

Given his current routine, they wouldn't be acceptable to me.
Couple of assumptions, he hasn't had very much experience doing deadlifts and he's using the leg curls as a finishing exercise.
He would be better off doing some additonal lighter sets of SLDL or some other DL variation. Muscle wise, the additional benefits would be in the glutes and grip. Form and confidence should also improve from the additonal reps. If the SLDLs and lunges kill his grip, then he's better off using good mornings (besides the grip, the benefits should be the same)

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Given his current routine, they wouldn't be acceptable to me.
Couple of assumptions, he hasn't had very much experience doing deadlifts and he's using the leg curls as a finishing exercise.
He would be better off doing some additonal lighter sets of SLDL or some other DL variation. Muscle wise, the additional benefits would be in the glutes and grip. Form and confidence should also improve from the additonal reps. If the SLDLs and lunges kill his grip, then he's better off using good mornings (besides the grip, the benefits should be the same)

Acceptable To Kenny

The SLDL combined with the Leg Curl is acceptable. The SLDL is an effective postior chain movement. The Leg Curl is ok as a finishing movement.

[/B]Additional Glute Work

The glutes are heavily involed in the Squat and Lunge.

Exactly, how much more glute does he need?

Grip

His grip is worked with his heavier SLDL. While the SLDL can build grip strength that is not the purpose of the movement. It is a posterior chain exercise, not a grip movement.

Improving one's grip with the SLDL is an ancillary beneift. There are other more effective method of improving grip strength.

Form

Performing light weight for repetitions isn't very effective at developing one's technique. Research shows that as the percentages of the load change, so does the muscle invovement.

That means, the muscle firing order is different with 60% of 1 Repetition Max compared to 85% of 1 Repetition Max.

Tired Muscles

An additional problem one technique deteriates as the muscle fatigue. Thus, one ends up developing improper technique.

Confidence

Building strength builds confidence, not banging out repetitions with a lighter weight.

Contadiction In Advice

Your emphasis is on performing additional lighter sets with higer repetitions with the SLDL to increase grip strength. Then you recommend performing Good Mornings, if he has grip problems. That is a contradictory advice.

Using straps in performing the SLDL would for the most part accomplish the same thing.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[PushAndPull]

Alright then

[/B]Additional Glute Work

The glutes are heavily involed in the Squat and Lunge.

Exactly, how much more glute does he need?

The more glute work the better, since it's a secondary muscle. The extra strength gained will improve his DL, Squat, and Lunges.





Grip

His grip is worked with his heavier SLDL. While the SLDL can build grip strength that is not the purpose of the movement. It is a posterior chain exercise, not a grip movement.

Improving one's grip with the SLDL is an ancillary beneift. There are other more effective method of improving grip strength.

SLDL are not an effective method for improving grip strength? Seriously? I'm thinking that comes from people who don't do them





Form

Performing light weight for repetitions isn't very effective at developing one's technique. Research shows that as the percentages of the load change, so does the muscle invovement.

That means, the muscle firing order is different with 60% of 1 Repetition Max compared to 85% of 1 Repetition Max.

Tired Muscles

An additional problem one technique deteriates as the muscle fatigue. Thus, one ends up developing improper technique.

Confidence

Building strength builds confidence, not banging out repetitions with a lighter weight.


Completely disagree with all of this. I don't know where you read this, but it certianly isn't consistent with my experience.


Contadiction In Advice

Your emphasis is on performing additional lighter sets with higer repetitions with the SLDL to increase grip strength. Then you recommend performing Good Mornings, if he has grip problems. That is a contradictory advice.

Using straps in performing the SLDL would for the most part accomplish the same thing.

It's not a contradiction, it's a substitute until his grip strength progresses. I wouldn't recommend straps, since they could be tempting to use all the time.

 

[Diesel618]

Hold up, wait one mother fuckin minute.

If leg extensions are so useless, I challenge you notbigs to find me one IFBB pro who doesn't utilize them. Find me one competitor and I will concede the debate.

I find it to be a beautiful exercise. It can be used for pre-exhaust, or as a finishing quad movement.

 

[DiGiTaL]

Diesel618's right. Ive incorporated Extensions in the end of my quad training day to unload and spread the pump. Moderate weight, 12 reps, few sets. Feelsgoodman

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

The more glute work the better, since it's a secondary muscle. The extra strength gained will improve his DL, Squat, and Lunges.

More doesn't equal better.

SLDL are not an effective method for improving grip strength? Seriously? I'm thinking that comes from people who don't do them

You missed the point. The point is that the SLDL is a posterior chain movement. If you want to develop you grip there are other methods.

By the way, my grip and my deadlift work just fine.

Completely disagree with all of this. I don't know where you read this, but it certianly isn't consistent with my experience.

The information on developing technique comes from reasearch, specifidally Dr Tom McLaughlin a former powerlifter with a PhD in biomechanics. It also some from anecdotal data.

You can disagree all you want but it does NOT change the facts.

It's not a contradiction, it's a substitute until his grip strength progresses. I wouldn't recommend straps, since they could be tempting to use all the time.

Since the SLDL and Good Morning are somewhat similar. the same results are for the most part obtain by performing SLDL's with straps or doing Good Mornings.

The weak link in the SLDL chain is the grip. To maximize the posterior chain, the use of straps are an effective method.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[PushAndPull]

I don't model my routines after the pros, and could care less what they do.
If you do squats and deadlifts, why do you need a pre-exhaust for the quads or hams?
The only possible value I see in leg extensions/curls is laziness. Basically you get to sit or lay down. This is fine if you have a fairly high volume routine or having a lazy day. He's training legs once a week (low frequency), not doing very many sets (low volume), I doubt he's going very heavy(he put deads after leg extensions/curls) The routine is laxed enough. The few exercises he does do, should at least be challenging compound exercises.

 

[PushAndPull]

More doesn't equal better.

Should have been more clear. More is better within the context of his routine. No way he'll overtrain, if he's a healthy adult.

You missed the point. The point is that the SLDL is a posterior chain movement. If you want to develop you grip there are other methods.

By the way, my grip and my deadlift work just fine.

Regardless, it's great for developing grip strength.

The information on developing technique comes from reasearch, specifidally Dr Tom McLaughlin a former powerlifter with a PhD in biomechanics. It also some from anecdotal data.

You can disagree all you want but it does NOT change the facts.

These are opinions NOT FACTS.

.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

.

You need to read books that have more words than pictures.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[PushAndPull]

You need to stop relying on others to do the thinking for you.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

You need to stop relying on others to do the thinking for you.

You need to cultivate a brain.

You buddy, Kenny.

 

[PushAndPull]

I don't need to cultivate a brain if I have access to Dr. Tom McLaughlin's!
Oh wait, that's your daddy