New here and female trying to get answers around supplimenting with Testo

[qkcam]

Hi
i am new hear a 45 yo female that has been into light exercise and body building for a few years.. got off set with "cfids" for a few years.. but finding that low dose of testo therapy and thyroid replacement has oddly made a big difference in my ablity to start exercising again.. working hard on food plan and trying to exercise enough but not overdo it!...

i have a few questions about testo dosing.. and a few options
i have injections as an option and also sublingual testo drops.. and my dr is willing to let me try transdermal versabase cream. I have tried a compounded gel in the past but it didn't really do much. I seem to feel alot better with the injections- except by about the 5th day i feel the energy running down. also i have to be mindful of not taking too much or i get polycythemia.

wondering what other's experince is or ideas about making changes? my dr first had me on 20mg a week injects and i felt really pretty good on an energy and emotional level i felt really stable.. able to exercise and do basic self care which was/is more than i have been able to do in a long time.. only thing about that dose it is seemed to by the 5ht day after injection energy would really drop.. and a bit concerned about the polycythemia.

would love any ideas and thoughts.. thank you!
qk

 

[theCaptn']

Best go to the ladies section. Sassy or AgentYes have experience in this area and should offer the best advice.

 

[qkcam]

i thought i was in the ladies section? it says at the top female talk..confused. thx

 

[sassy69]

So you're on test therapy specifically because you were recommended by a doctor, e.g. due top peri/menopause? I can tell you personally I started having a tougher time w/ training when I hit 45 - and I've been training consistently for over 30 years. IMO it matched directly to hitting 45. I dropped the frequency / intensity of my training partially due to a re-injured shoulder, partially to drop muscle mass to compete in a smaller physique category - and getting back into the way I used to train has been a full-on mindfuck because it just doesn't work like it used to. I have to do a lot more warmup before I can confidently lift - esp legs & back days. I also find it is harder if I take a day off vs doing something every day -- it becomes more of a stiffness thing than the need for recovery time.

RE: test therapy - test cream is going to be harder to accurately dose, and I understand that you can get it compounded w/ different balances of test / progest / estro? Anyway - the content of the cream can be varied as well. I imagine the drops are more accurate but I don't know much about it. Injections are always going to be the easiest to dose accurately and it isn't going to be subject to how great your transdermal carrier is or where you apply it.

What test ester are you using? Propionate / Enanthate / Cypionate? Do they tell you / give you the injections on a specific schedule? And how much per injection? If its propionate then the half-life is pretty short and I'd say do it more frequently. If its a longer ester, I' guess I'd be surprised, but then I'd tell your doc that you notice it and if he can recommend either a different test ester or a different dosing frequency?

 

[theCaptn']

i thought i was in the ladies section? it says at the top female talk..confused. thx

My bad, I thought this was posted in anabolics where all the meatheads hang out

 

[Valkyrie]

I have nor much to add here this is outside my area except to say that she is absolutely right about transdermal. There are too many varying factors in how people absorb transderm for dosing to be close to correct.

 

[s2h]

20mg ew is a avg dose for a women with your situation....if its compounded then it is most likely 10mg of test cyp and 10mg of test prop...this would explain why after 5 days your blood levels begin to drop and you dont feel as.perky... not telling you what to do since your under a.doctors care...but if i was you i would inject 10mg every third day...tbis will keep your levels much more stable...its a small dose so you will need to use 29g 1cc or 1/2 cc syringes....if not you will not be able to accurately draw that smaller amount....use a regular 21g syringe to draw the oil...then pull the plug out of the back of the 29g pin and shot the desired amount of oil into it...put the plugner back jn...flick it and get all the air out...then pin...pretty simple...

Tell your doctor how you feel and that your interested in 2 x ew injections for stability...most of these doctors prescribe once ew cause thats what there med dosing pc program tells them...once your post menupause you will be able to.increase your dose to around double of where you are.at.now......good luck...

 

[sassy69]

^^ That's where I was going. Just knowing the esters available for "test", I would guess its the shorter acting one that is hitting you.

Definitely discuss this w/ your doc. Where it is a doctor prescribing hormones, I'd much prefer that you can speak to the doc about adjusting in response to how you are feeling at the current dose than experimenting yourself. If a doc can't respond to the basic request to vary something or can't tell you "why" this or that is happening and how to modify it, then get a new doc. Plan C is start the experiment yourself (depending on your comfort level in the world of hormones). I am hoping you have an amazing doc and he/she can respond by trying a different pinning schedule. I think you'll find the right schedule pretty easily if we're just dealing w/ the ester half-life.

 

[qkcam]

Hi - I appreciate the support! this is great.. thank you.. the testo i have been taking from the dr is enthante .. she did say i could switch to 2x a week dosing- she is really flexible! but i have confused myself by seeing another dr i thought might know more..since my health history is long and complicated and it has taken 4 yrs to find any real help. he suggested i do the drops or the gels compounded- not sure why he wants me away from the injections- but i do now at this point i am not ready to give them up.. the drops seem to be a pain..
so for the injections we are also going to swtich and try a compounded depo- ( i am allergic to cottenseed) at a 100mg/ml so it will be easier to get accurate reading on the syringe. - i just got some 1/2ml syringes but the needle are supposed to be 1/2 inch but they are really short- i don't know why after 5 days the enthante seems to run out but that is what i experience.. and or maybe it is just the "cfids" coming through.

i need to find a simple way.. .and i think at this point dialing in the injection schedule seems easiest. not sure why dr #2 doesn't like his patients on injections?
sassy i can relate it is a "mindfuck" looking at what i used to be able to do and what /where my adjustments are now. at this point i have been so "sick and exhausted " for a few years despite i would continue to make attempts to work out.. although at a greatly modified pace.. sometimes only 10mins.. and then i would be exhausted the rest of the day.. i try to be glad for what i am able to do..although i struggle with what i "used to be like" aging is a mind fuck in and of it's self and then having injury or health issues on top... i am glad to say yesterday i managed an hour at the gym! and then a good 3omin walk a few hours later-..that is huge.. and i also can tell i need to "pace' myself so i dont get sick again.. sorry if this is jumbled up.. i apprecaite all the imput ideas and support.. look forward to hearing more! and offering support where i can.. thank you so much!

 

[sassy69]

RE: the second doc - ASK! If he won't give straight answers, then he doesn't know what he's talking about. Esp w/ hormones, IMO it is so important to keep asking! There is no one prescribed way because everyone has completely different hormone profiles, and during peri-menopause, there's so much flux going on, no one can say "only" this or that is the way to go. Particularly when you start asking questions that include nutrition & training questions, doctors are stumped. They know "their" way, and think in terms of treating stuff w/ drugs instead of looking at the larger picture, that IMO you HAVE to be responsible for yourself and ask. Don't assume they know everything. They live in a different world. Not that I think they live in an easy world, but unless you're working w/ someone who is themselves active in the "fitness" lifestyle, they don't usually have a good grip on those aspects of "health". JMHO. ASK!

RE: the other stuff - you mentioned that you have a long & complicated history - so possible there's other stuff going on, but it sounds like you've got a lot more than just getting sex hormone levels balanced if you're that tired? Thyroid came to mind as well. Progesterone can sometimes also contribute to things - it always seems like the "forgotten hormone". I don't know the full extent of impact, but I"ve heard of people who have a natural progesterone imbalance and were literally at the point of being suicidal because they couldn't find the solution to the issues - i.e. being prescribed anti-depressants, etc. but the doc never looking at their full hormone profile - and then these people tried running deca (if I recall) and it actually helped balance the progest. This goes to the specific compound and whether or not it actually does affect progesterone, but just another example of the many subtle impacts of getting all your hormones balanced and how drastically an imbalance somewhere in the push/pull chain can really screw you up.

I think I just want to make sure that whoever you're working with is looking at the big picture and considering other things that might be contributing to the overall state you are in. I hope you are able to get an easy result just changing the dosing schedule. I am surprised if you're using strictly enanthate, but who knows. Half the battle is just trying different schedules or doses to get you to a better place.

 

[qkcam]

you are right getting everything "balanced" is tricky.. and i have to be patient.. i have been taking some naturethroid- although my levels were "normal" low normal.. and i found i needed cortef to be able to tolerate the thryoids.. i guess my adrenals were spent- it is so complex and has been along challange- at least at this point i am not getting so many infections that knock me back for 2 months.. and i can do some movement without crashing alot .. that is progress from 2 years ago.
as far as progestrone..good call.. it is low- but i can't tolerate progestrone it makes me swell up like crazy with water. i wish i could take it i get really bad PMS's .. have been perimena since about 36.. after a year of interferon therpay- that stuff trashed my system.
i will ask the ole dr # 2 about "why not"" regarding the injections at this point he knows i am doing the drops and the injections .. the drops seem to be really strong- too much i think..
i dont know deca as you mentioned.. i did good to get the testo.. i basically had to push the endo..under the guise of transgender- although i am taking a much lower dose- i do know i need to be careful with this stuff as i tend to get polycythemia- and that wont help in the long run! .. i wish there were more studies on women and perimenapuse.. for years i kept hearing how i was depressed and needed to exercise more-- yet i kept getting sick when i exercised more- so turns out my immune system was in a big crash- i hope i am repairing it.. with nutrition as you mention.. i found out i have whey ,dairy and egg allergy- they were part of my everyday food.. so i switched to pea protein and slowly after a few months trying to add back a few eggs a couple times a week.. and will see if i can tolerate cottage cheese again- adding more veggies / greens and cut out alot of the other stuff. i have to say the food change has been helping and it is alot of work! but i feel like it is a really good investment- looking at what my other options for protein are.

so someone was saying 20mg a week is a standard dose for someone going though this stuff? i know i had alot of energy on that dose but my hemacrit started going up a again. so i am trying to cut back- and still working on a good thyroid balance... good ideas! thanks for the support! i am thinking about doing 10mg every 5 days.or maybe a bit lower than that. i will be getting some depo soon to try. it is 100mg/ml so that will help if i need an even smaller dose- i have the 1cc syringes and some 1/2cc but the needles are way to short on the 1/2cc unless i do subQ.. oddly when i tried that a couple times i had kinda an emotional meltdown- dont know why.. i am glad to be seeing gains slowly in the gym.. and trying to remember to be patient -
thanks again!

 

[sassy69]

Wow - yea you have a lot going on! Its a slow process for sure, but optimizing your diet & training are a great place to start because they are the foundation. You might explore some of the Paleo diet stuff for help w/ ways to eat that eliminate the sources of your food allergies.

Best of luck w/ your test dosing - hopefully this is an easy change and will address a lot of the issues!

 

[qkcam]

thanks..sassy ! someone else mentioned the paleo diet too- mostly i have been trying to get my carbs from fruits and veggies..even if it means i blend them or just steam.. and then lean meats. except i do have steel cut oats and a rice cake.. veggies are growing on me! .. i am not sure what to taper my dose down too...really for sure .. should i just keep tapering untill i find the right spot? or pick a dose and stick with it for a month? now i am curious about deca..and the progestrone support-

i looked at dr e gordon's website he has been giving women test injections for quiet a few years with pretty good results- it was really good to hear his interviews..
Testosterone Deficiency The Hidden Disease by E. Barry Gordon, M.D.

it is good to have energy and strange to have a sex drive coming back.. it makes me want to get out and be more social.. so that is a good thing! i am not so good at cooking meals "ahead of time" for the week.. i know alot of people do.. and i am working on that.. then i have to find a way to take it all with me.. ! i am amazed at how much we need to /get to eat.. while doing this training stuff- !

i think for a long time i pushed and pushed my body and didnt support it with enough nutrition- i am learning. thanks for the feedback!