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Safest Type of Insulin?

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cerberus16sk

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I'm doing a lot of reading right now.. I want to play it safe and start with the smallest dose of the safest kind, and move on from there. I also want to have some precautionary things on hand like glucose tabs and the shot you carry around with you.. So after some research and talking to the people at the pharmacy, there are different types of insulin.. Which type is the safest for a first timer? I'm leaning towards the rapid acting. I would like to get the nova generic kind instead because it's cheaper.. Any tips on the perfect meal to have after injecting, the smallest amount of ius to use (i read 2), safety precautions? I have some ideas on how do it and what to have on hand but I definately want a 2nd and 3rd opinion.. Apparently the long acting is the most dangerous so that is out of the question. I also dont want to shut down my pancreas so i'm leaning towards rapid acting novolog. Then for my first time i can just gorge myself for 5 hours with simple sugars and carbs and then i can relax and be confident i won't die? Or should i start with a big dose of sugars and then avoid them unless i'm feeling hypo? People warn about getting fat from too much, but im more concerned with safety. Just asking for YOUR version of the safest and most simple protocol. I'm finding it hard to find simple information on this subject people are always going on about different options. I want a failproof protocol for a beginner. Something that will work every time. I want to be able to try it and then be able to go to sleep within the shortest period of time. Also if I only want to do it once a day, would it be better in the morning or post workout?
Humalog or lispro15-30 min.30-90 min3-5 hoursRapid-acting insulin covers insulin needs for meals eaten at the same time as the injection. This type of insulin is often used with longer-acting insulin.
Novolog or aspart10-20 min.40-50 min.3-5 hours
Apidra or glulisine20-30 min.30-90 min.1-2? hours
Regular (R) humulin or novolin30 min. -1 hour2-5 hours5-8 hoursShort-acting insulin covers insulin needs for meals eaten within 30-60 minutes
Velosulin (for use in the insulin pump)30 min.-1 hour2-3 hours2-3 hours
NPH (N)1-2 hours4-12 hours18-24 hoursIntermediate-acting insulin covers insulin needs for about half the day or overnight. This type of insulin is often combined with rapid- or short-acting insulin.
Long-acting insulin covers insulin needs for about one full day. This type of insulin is often combined, when needed, with rapid- or short-acting insulin.
Lantus (insulin glargine)1-1? hourNo peak time; insulin is delivered at a steady level20-24 hours
Levemir (insulin detemir)1-2 hours6-8 hoursUp to 24 hours

[TD="colspan: 5"] Rapid-Acting [/TD]

[TD="colspan: 5"] Short-Acting [/TD]

[TD="colspan: 5"] Intermediate-Acting [/TD]

[TD="colspan: 5"] Long-Acting [/TD]
 
I read dieseljimmy's story about going hypo at the store 5 hours after a shot.. can this happen with the rapid acting even if you take your dextrose/protein/creatine or whatever directly after the shot? will a bag of skittles in your pocket at all times be enough to save you if you have a hypo moment? i'm reading all the articles here by the way:Everything you wanted to know about insulin and bodybuilding
 
IMO i've always had a better experience using Humalog ( rapid acting ) insulin than the long acting brands.

Why are you wanting to run insulin anyway? What kind of protocol are you leaning towards. Dosing Pre workout?, Post Workout? Both? Or multiple times during the day?
 
I want to run it because my training is good, my diet is good, i'm using AAS, and i feel like i'm reaching a plateau. I want to push it to the next level. I think I've earned it. I could push it a little bit more by switching to different AAS, but im feeling focused and ready to learn and try something new. I've always been interestin in insulin but have always been afraid.. At the moment i'm feeling mentally ready to learn and do it properly. I have a lot of free time so I won't be distracted by work and I will be able to retain the information. I feel that this is my moment and it's kind of now or never. I'm not rushing, i'm writing notes on all my research and I want to start very slow and do it right. - As far as what protocol I want to use; I want to use it once properly and see what it does, monitor my blood glucose levels, get out of it alive. Then I want to try it again very cautiously.. I think i will do it post workout after intense training for maybe a week. Then stop and see how my body is acting. I'm a little nervous about insulin resistance so i'm also going to research how to increase sensitivity.
 
So far my notes say between 2-5 iu will be injected at a time with a bottle of gatorade or another higher-sugar carb source. I know there are better sugar/carb sources out there so I will probably use one of those instead.. I'm guessing those are things that can be found in the diabetic section at the store. Off the top of my head I want things with a high glycemic index because the sugars are used more quickly by the body. People are mentioning things like dextrose. I don't have a problem buying that if it's necessary. I will definately have some glucose tabs on hand. My muscle milk contains 9 grams of carbs including 2 grams of sugar per scoop. I will be drinking it with whole milk. Will this be useful at all or do I really need to be drinking some kind of sugar water and eating donuts/candy? My notes say 10 grams of carbs per IU.. So for 2 IU of fast acting Novolog I could just drink 1 scoop of muscle milk and apparently 4 saltine crackers contains 20g of carbs.. so would that be more than enough carbs and i wouldn't have to eat again the whole time the novolog is active? Then have some skittles and glucose tabs in my pocket just in case? Is it really that easy or is there more.. I REALLY don't want to have any unexpected events if you know what I mean. How many IUs would you use if you were going to have a pint of orange chicken and white rice post-workout? Would you be safe eating the rice or do you need fast acting sugars? For those that monitor your glucose levels, what is optimal and what is approaching too low, what is dangerously low? I just read that too high blood sugar is deadly also, is this a real concern for non-diabetics? Is it a concern for people drinking those dextrose drinks and stuff?
 
Immediately following your injection, you will want to do the following religiously:
 injection + 5 minutes ? drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 55g dextrose (based on 7-8 IU's - 7-8 grams per IU more precisely)
Injection + 15 minutes ? drink shake with 80g of whey protein in water
Injection + 60 ? 75 minutes ? eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS
Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog sub-q, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
-- ^ so if i want to do 2 IUs, i could do about 13 grams of dextrose.. can i leave out the creatine and glutamine untill i'm more experienced and comfortable? i dont want to get dehydrated. then 10 minutes after that do 1 scoop of muscle milk in whole milk for a little more than 16 grams of protein? then an hour after injection eat 10 g of protein and 10 g of carbs. if i'm very lean do i really need to worry about eating fats? i'm trying to figure out the bare minimuals of how to survive. i will always try to surpass these by eating as much protein/carbs as possible. .. if i were to follow this to a tee then theoretically i could simply go to sleep after the protein/carb meal an hour after my shot? this is so scary guys.. wouldnt want to fall asleep and never wake up
 
tren increases Prostaglandin, which makes insulin work better, does that mean extra caution is necessary when using insulin with tren? i have questions for dayz.. but honestly all i really want is the most safe and simple protocol.. tell me what to buy and have on hand, what to eat post injection, when i can go to sleep in peace afterwards .. i want to start with a small dose so dont have me drinking a gallon of milk with 300grams of dextrose.
 
"First consume simple sugars (dextrose preferred but not the only one) in the form of some type of drink as these are most readily absorbed in my experience. A general guideline is 10 grams of carbs for each unit of insulin- MINIMUM! Within a hour or so after your dose you want to eat a mix of simple carbs and high protein- this is the golden hour AFTER your workout when the insulin will shuttle nutrients into your muscles very efficiently. Humulin R will peak at two hours after you take it so you must eat another balanced meal at the hour and a half mark approximately. This meal should include complex carbs, some fats, and protein. Use simple carbs also if you feel any hypoglycemic symptoms. "R" will last up to six hours so be aware of how you feel and eat as needed after the two hour mark. REMEMBER THAT YOU STILL HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF INSULIN WORKING UP TO SIX HOURS LATER SO DON'T BE COMPLACENT AND ASSUME YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO HYPOGLYCEMIC.

For Humalog, use the same general rules and type of meal sequence, but begin the process immediately. Simple carbs should be ingested within 10 minutes- NO EXCEPTIONS. Then have the carb/protein meal within the hour. Then have the balanced meal of complex carbs/fats/protein at the hour 1/2 mark. Keep aware of how you feel up to four hours after your dose and eat as needed. " <^--- Jesus. So i'm supposed to eat a full meal every 30 minutes? and i have to stand on guard for 4 hours.. what if i start to feel hypo after the last meal how much sugar do i need to bounce back out of it? dis some scary shit man.. i will be sure to report back to you guys after i try it.. im obviously going to have to stock up on a lot of sugary food just in case
 
holy fuck you are way overthinking this.. you are going to get fat as a mother fucker if you do any of the shit you just posted.
 
Standard Donkey said:
holy fuck you are way overthinking this.. you are going to get fat as a mother fucker if you do any of the shit you just posted.
Click to expand...

help me out bro.. i know you thought a lot too i read your posts in the sticky - can i use milk milk for now (calcium sodium caseinate) untill i can buy some hydrolized protein? where can i get some form of brainched chain cyclic dextrins and can i use something else cheap in the mean time? everyone is saying to use humulin r but i want to use the rapid acting preworkout like you did donkey.. that your ifbb coach told you to do.. give me some tips bruh
 
There are some good threads in this section on insulin. You should look them up and read through them...they would be helpful to you.

I will answer a few questions up-front. Humulin R is safer than humalog for 1st timers simply because it releases more slowly. This reduces the chance of your blood sugar level falling rapidly.

I would not use sugar as your carb surce with insulin. High mollecular weight, complex carbs are much better. You want to combine those carbs with protein/aminos. I recommend either hydrolysates (if you have a fast metabolism and/or are trying to gain weight)...and Leucine + EAAs if you have a slow metabolism and/or are trying to lose fat....although this is not always set in stone...just a general recommendation.

Start with 10 grams carbs per IU and make adjustments from there if needed, depending on your insulin sensitivity.
 
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so obligatory statement. insulin is not a safe substance and should be used with extreme caution and care.

but the reality is if your paying attention the stuff is manageable....

I think STDonkey is right on the money here. your overthinking it. but its a good sign that your paying enough attention to educate yourself. but it is kinda like cooking. I can give you the "joy of cooking" and make you read it front to back several times but that wont make you a cook. I think you have to research and experiment at the same time to really get a grab on things. but seriously props for realizing the risks...

My suggestion is to get a blood sugar meter at target. start at a baby dose and slowly but steadly up your dose. pay attention to the blood sugar meter. get the feel for what numbers look like and what you feel like. run 6 weeks at a time, dont go months on months to avoid major insulin resistance.

you dont need to bury yourself in carbs. you need to make sure you have ample carbs and then always have a little on hand. if your married tell your wife that your taking something that messes with your blood sugar. I got a insulin bracket online, took off the badge and put it in my wallet.

I have done my fair share of insulin and really have only two memorable blood sugar moments. they can be scary but have some simple sugars with you at all times and youll be ok. my moments were part negligence on my part. I got too comfortable with the stuff.

all that being said and with the understanding that your being careful. I would still seek out other alternative plateau busters first. I really like IGF for a renewed vigor in the gym and sick pumps. which leads to better workouts. I like GHRP6 as an appetite assistant, I have found that my plateaus are typically related to consumption, so if i up the cals my workouts are better. I like some Halo or TNE (or both) preworkout only as just a gym bump.
 
cerberus16sk said:
I read dieseljimmy's story about going hypo at the store 5 hours after a shot.. can this happen with the rapid acting even if you take your dextrose/protein/creatine or whatever directly after the shot? will a bag of skittles in your pocket at all times be enough to save you if you have a hypo moment? i'm reading all the articles here by the way:Everything you wanted to know about insulin and bodybuilding
Click to expand...

this was with type R.... I had my shakes, I ate a meal but then I took a little nap, woke up and realized I needed something at the store. I should have eaten something as it was like 3.5 hours since I had any food. I realized it as I was driving to the store. but figured it could wait another half and hour. It didnt. It was one of the more scary moments of my life and I have done very little insulin since then. kinda gun shy. plus I came to the realization that Im no pro bb and I should not be taking the risks they do, It was around the same time when I was having a kid and it was just one of those moments that I cant shake. I still take it occassionally but in relatively small doses for 6 weeks at the most
 
2iu isnt going to do shit... I stopped taking slin and was getting great gains but you have to baby sit it to much. I was on humalin -r and i would take it at 5pm and still have my bs drop at 1030 at night. So friday rolls around and my wife wants to see a movie, I am having her put karbolyn, protein, and gummy bears in her purse. It just got to the point where the risk did not out weight the benefits. I think I may go back on slin though but on a different protocol. Humalin in the am, 10iu and 5 iu of humalog preworkout at 5pm. This way its done by the time im finished with my dinner after my workout and I can go about my night. Worst shit ever to is going hypo in the middle of sex and rushing to blend up some oats, protein, and honey.
 
dieseljimmy said:
so obligatory statement. insulin is not a safe substance and should be used with extreme caution and care.

but the reality is if your paying attention the stuff is manageable....

I think STDonkey is right on the money here. your overthinking it. but its a good sign that your paying enough attention to educate yourself. but it is kinda like cooking. I can give you the "joy of cooking" and make you read it front to back several times but that wont make you a cook. I think you have to research and experiment at the same time to really get a grab on things. but seriously props for realizing the risks...

My suggestion is to get a blood sugar meter at target. start at a baby dose and slowly but steadly up your dose. pay attention to the blood sugar meter. get the feel for what numbers look like and what you feel like. run 6 weeks at a time, dont go months on months to avoid major insulin resistance.

you dont need to bury yourself in carbs. you need to make sure you have ample carbs and then always have a little on hand. if your married tell your wife that your taking something that messes with your blood sugar. I got a insulin bracket online, took off the badge and put it in my wallet.

I have done my fair share of insulin and really have only two memorable blood sugar moments. they can be scary but have some simple sugars with you at all times and youll be ok. my moments were part negligence on my part. I got too comfortable with the stuff.

all that being said and with the understanding that your being careful. I would still seek out other alternative plateau busters first. I really like IGF for a renewed vigor in the gym and sick pumps. which leads to better workouts. I like GHRP6 as an appetite assistant, I have found that my plateaus are typically related to consumption, so if i up the cals my workouts are better. I like some Halo or TNE (or both) preworkout only as just a gym bump.
Click to expand...
See bold above: This is true in 95% of the cases out there.
 
cerberus16sk said:
help me out bro.. i know you thought a lot too i read your posts in the sticky - can i use milk milk for now (calcium sodium caseinate) untill i can buy some hydrolized protein? where can i get some form of brainched chain cyclic dextrins and can i use something else cheap in the mean time? everyone is saying to use humulin r but i want to use the rapid acting preworkout like you did donkey.. that your ifbb coach told you to do.. give me some tips bruh
Click to expand...
milk with insulin.... fuck my face :coffee:
 
Mike Arnold said:
There are some good threads in this section on insulin. You should look them up and read through them...they would be helpful to you.

I will answer a few questions up-front. Humulin R is safer than humalog for 1st timers simply because it releases more slowly. This reduces the chance of your blood sugar level falling rapidly.

I would not use sugar as your carb surce with insulin. High mollecular weight, complex carbs are much better. You want to combine those carbs with protein/aminos. I recommend either hydrolysates (if you have a fast metabolism and/or are trying to gain weight)...and Leucine + EAAs if you have a slow metabolism and/or are trying to lose fat....although this is not always set in stone...just a general recommendation.

Start with 10 grams carbs per IU and make adjustments from there if needed, depending on your insulin sensitivity.
Click to expand...
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mike Arnold again.
--so as long as i cover the 10 grams carbs per IU i willl be completely safe? most people seem to be drinking up to 3 shakes of 10 g/iu ..
 
Its seems the OP is seeing what he wants to hear, and not the other side of things..

Again, Why do you want to run slin? Where are you currently in your training? Cycle history? Age? Anyone can tell you 10g of carbs per iu every hour and you'll be fine, but there is much more to slin than this. So again. Answer the above?
 
Personally I wont screw with Slin at all. but if you are new, go for longer acting till you get the feel for it.
 
dieseljimmy said:
this was with type R.... I had my shakes, I ate a meal but then I took a little nap, woke up and realized I needed something at the store. I should have eaten something as it was like 3.5 hours since I had any food. I realized it as I was driving to the store. but figured it could wait another half and hour. It didnt. It was one of the more scary moments of my life and I have done very little insulin since then. kinda gun shy. plus I came to the realization that Im no pro bb and I should not be taking the risks they do, It was around the same time when I was having a kid and it was just one of those moments that I cant shake. I still take it occassionally but in relatively small doses for 6 weeks at the most
Click to expand...

see this is the kind of shit i want to avoid. i do not want ot use the type r i want to use rapid acting novalog. mike said it is riskier because blood sugar drops faster but is this really even a possibility if EVERY TIME i inject, i drink my carb shake before the shot and sip another one intraworkout? i want it to be done and over with by the time i eat my post workout meal.. i dont want to be struggling to stay awake for 6 hours and having multiple meals pre-made. that is a little more complicated and maybe i will try that when im more experienced. if i have to i can always do another rapid acting shot 2 hours after the 1st to keep it going.. its like how people reccomend tren ace so you can stop if you dont like the sides
 
jay_steel said:
these are the guys that go get hurt off of slin... post a pic of your self and lets see where you are. i bet that diet could solve all your issues alone.
Click to expand...

what you just said makes no sense. im obviously doing my research and being very cautious. ive demonstrated basic knowledge of how it works but people arent giving the information i'm asking for. theyre basically saying don't overthink it you'll be fine. also many others in this thread have had scary moments from being too comfortable so why arent you talking about them? im a little irritated that you said that. i hate when people go on AAS board and talk shit to people for no reason. i said i was willing to start as low as 2iu and you have the nerve to act like i'm some kind of idiiot
 
OldSchoolLifter said:
Its seems the OP is seeing what he wants to hear, and not the other side of things..

Again, Why do you want to run slin? Where are you currently in your training? Cycle history? Age? Anyone can tell you 10g of carbs per iu every hour and you'll be fine, but there is much more to slin than this. So again. Answer the above?
Click to expand...

i already answered these questions.. this is a good opportunity to learn. im not distracted by work, i have a lot of free time and my mind is clear and ready to learn something new and challenging. i can switch AAS or buy some IGF but that requires no thought. im currently on AAS, ive done a lot of cycles, i've done GHRP, ive been training for 10 years. i'm 27 years old. im aware there is more to slin than carbs ive been reading everything out there.. i know you want high density cyclic dextrins or whatever because they suck more nutrients into the cell with a vaccuum effect and also reduce subq and intestinal bloat, hydrolized proteins are digested more quickly and brought into the cell with the carbs, 4.5g leucine is necessary for optimal protein synthesis.. a banana is necessary to stop serum potassium levels from getting too low from the insulin. all this is off the top of my head, this is why that guy calling me stupid offended me. ive been reading my ass off. you basically answered my main question and thank you for that.. people say to take 10/g carbs per iu.. and i kept asking if this is enough and no one would say that you have to do it again every hour.. i cannot know that if no one tells me, i'm trying to understand how it works and for asking questions people are treating me like i'm stupid. not everybody but some people.. i appreciate those that are treating me as an adult. so 10/g carbs per iu an hour.. how many hours after rapid acting novalog will i be safe to relax? my plan is to take it pre workout with a shake, then sip a shake intraworkout, then if i have to i iwll do another post workout before a meal.. so if someone could tailor this plan it would be greatly appreciated. im going to go to the store and hi health right now and look into a glucose meter/tabs and see what kind of things are available as far as BCCD's and HP's - i'm on page 6 of the insulin run sticky, ive read all the "everything you want to know about insulin" articles and my notes are probably about 6 or 7 pages long
 
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cerberus16sk said:
what you just said makes no sense. im obviously doing my research and being very cautious. ive demonstrated basic knowledge of how it works but people arent giving the information i'm asking for. theyre basically saying don't overthink it you'll be fine. also many others in this thread have had scary moments from being too comfortable so why arent you talking about them? im a little irritated that you said that. i hate when people go on AAS board and talk shit to people for no reason. i said i was willing to start as low as 2iu and you have the nerve to act like i'm some kind of idiiot
Click to expand...

post a picture of your self and your aas history and experience. Also when did i call your self stupid. All i said is these are the people that get hurt. If your insecurity feels that i called you stupid then in the back of your mind you must truly know you are insecure. personally i can care less what you think. 2iu's wont do anything period. How much hgh are you running, what types of cycles are you running, whats your bf height and weight. What is your diet. These are all things that should be more less taken into consideration before jumping into slin.
 
between my pm's, Mike Arnold's comments, and the reading he has supposedly done, Op should know all that he needs to know about slin.. he's basically just looking for attention at this point :coffee:
 
ok.. i got some supplies today
Novalin N - they told me this is the rapid acting at pharmacy but im not sure they know
i've got some guava fruit nectar 38 g of carbs each (34g sugar)
ive got 2 packs of fast acting glucose tabs for emergencies (only 4 g of carbs each, how many of these will i need to
eat?)
ive got a pack of candy fruit slices(37g carbs per 6 pieces)
ive got carbo gain pure maltodextrin (47g carbs per serving) i know this might not be the absolute best carb source
but will it do for now?
ive got some muscle milk..
ive got some burritos with 83 grams of carbs and 23 grams of protein
so preinjection of 6iu i can mix the 50g maltodextrin with 1 scoop of muscle milk in whole milk (9g carbs, 16 protein)
am i going to need to have some fruit juice or something else or will this be ok?
then post injection begin sipping on a 2nd shake and drink that intraworkout, finish at the 1 hour mark post injection
then i'll be good till 2 hours post inject when i have my 3rd shake and post workout meal? how would you guys do
it? ill go buy some apple juice or something if i need to
 

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Standard Donkey said:
between my pm's, Mike Arnold's comments, and the reading he has supposedly done, Op should know all that he needs to know about slin.. he's basically just looking for attention at this point :coffee:
Click to expand...
sorry for asking questions faggot
 
god damn those idiots at the walmart pharmacy gave me the wrong kind of insulin.. i specifically asked over and over for rapid acting and they gave me novalin n. im reading that is intermediate and lasts 18 hours. fuck
 
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