6 week insulin run

[Standard Donkey]

I use it alot like I use orals. Six weeks here and there just to stir things up a little. I had the biggest single instance of growth when I was using hgh, igf and insulin using the mutants protocol several years ago. Stacked with a healthy course of androgens I went from being a big guy at the gym to being the guy that not many people want to talk to anymore. (Other then the other big guys asking what I was doing) I recomped from 280 at 22 percent to 258 at 11 percent.(I'm tall though)
i have taken insulin alone and think it is the single most important part of the mutant protocol.
but the reality of life kind snuck up on me. I had a friend die, I had a very scary motorcycle incident. I had a kid. And I realized being a pro or even a remarkable amature bb'er was not a realistic thing. I dropped the higher risk activities and long term heavy insulin use was one of them. I still use it but not often with moderate doses and not for very long

what was your dosing protocol like before all that stuff happened? (sorry about your loss btw)

 

[heckler7]

how long does humalog stay good for after it's opened if kept in the fridge and only taken out for like 10 seconds each use?

its recommended to be thrown out after 28 days, I can validate that it goes bad in roughly 45 -60 days. I have experienced when my blood levels stopped staying controlled and I was taking more than normal doses but it wasnt working. Doctor thought it was a bad batch but it turned out that I was using it too long. I replace mine at the first of each month its just easier that way.

I have been thru a few emergencies in my years, mostly from being overly confident that I was in control, and not following my diet strictly. Having low blood sugar is the scariest shit ever, once I was in shock and couldnt even speak to say help. I could barely reach the counter for a can of coke.

 

[Standard Donkey]

its recommended to be thrown out after 28 days, I can validate that it goes bad in roughly 45 -60 days. I have experienced when my blood levels stopped staying controlled and I was taking more than normal doses but it wasnt working. Doctor thought it was a bad batch but it turned out that I was using it too long. I replace mine at the first of each month its just easier that way.

I have been thru a few emergencies in my years, mostly from being overly confident that I was in control, and not following my diet strictly. Having low blood sugar is the scariest shit ever, once I was in shock and couldnt even speak to say help. I could barely reach the counter for a can of coke.

i have seen a ton of opinions that disagree with this.. can Mike Arnold please chime in?



anyways, pinned 13iu today (big back day), also wanted to see what going hypo was like..


INSANE training session, everything went smooth, not problems with hypo



it began to hit as i was warming up my (pre-made of course) post w/o meal. So i popped a glucose tab which i keep in a ziploc baggy tucked into my waistbad of my shorts (4g sugars), waited for a bit.. still felt a little dizzy and unstable so i popped another one.


i would have just eaten my meal then, but im supposed to wait until an hour after my workout it over.. the glucose tabs worked very nicely.




boy that was a real crisis

 

[theCaptn']

My slin has an expiry date. That's when it's time to throw out, like in 6 months. It'll be gone by then.

 

[Mike Arnold]

I was looking at month on month off as well. Subbed for further education Mike

The two biggest factors used in determining whether or not insulin sensitivity is maintained is how frequently insulin is used, as well as what type of insulin is used. In other words, total time of activity is what matters.

With that in mind, obviously, Humalog would be ideal for this purpose. How many times per week humalog can be used without having any significant effect on insulin sensitvity will be determined by whether or not any insulin sensitizers are used along with it (along with factors such as diet & exercise).

As a general rule of thumb, Humalog can be used about 5X weekly, while having only a minor impact on insulin sensitivity. By combining it with Glucophage 4-5X per week at 1,000-1,500 mg/day (500-750 mg AM/ 500-750 mg PM), it is easily maintained in full. One could even make improvments to their insulin sensitivity while using Humalog 5X per week, to a large degree, if the individual is comprehensive in their approach; most users will not be. For example, there are numerous drugs/supps/steps one can take to improve insulin sensitivity and when they are all combined, the improvements can be dramatic. In addition to Glucophage (which is a potent prescription sensitizer and very effective even when used alone), supps such as ALA, D-chiro-inositol, Cinnamon, Chromium picolinate, Vandyl sulfate, Acetic acid (can be found in apple cider vinegar), and fish oil can all improve insulin sensitivity. Of course, some are more effectuve than others, but the point is that a combined approach is far superior for those individuals seeking maximum effects.

The greater one's total exposure time to insulin, the more important it is for them to take these steps and begin combining different products. Those who abuse inulsin or whose use borders on abuse, are certainly going to want to take preventative/corrrectuve action more seriously. In addition to the above products, our diet plays a massive role in our level of insulin sensitivity. This can be a Catch-22 situation for a serious BB'r, as most BB'rs concume a very large amount of carbs on a regular basis, relative to the average person. This has a strong, negative effect on sensitivity...especially when a considerable portion of one's diet is made up of refined, processed, and/or simple carbs. Trying to tell the typical BB'r to cut back his carb intake is like telling him to stop making progress, as a reduction in carbs and/or overall calories can impair mass gains. Some steps a BB'r can take without harming his progress...and will likely even improve his progress (as well as overall heath) is to consume simple, processed, refined carbs only when they serve a specific purpose.

As an example, an ideal time to utilize processed carbs would be during the training window, when something like branched chain cyclic dextrins are very beneficial for enhancing glycogen storage and overall recovery, but at other times of the day a BB'r is better off consuming whole-grain, slower digesting carbs for his primnary energy source. While fruit may not fit this profile, it shold never be neglected, as it does not have the same effect on the body as a refined or processed carbs would.

Another manner in which we can manipulate our diet in order to improve insulin sensitivity without impairing our growth rate is to have one "low-carb" day per week. Because it is only once per week, muscle growth will not suffer (assuming overall caloric intake is maintained) and may even have a positive effect on growth, as it prevents the body from completely adapting to the excessive carb intake it is exposed to throughout the rest of the week. This principle is very similar to using cheat days when dieting. By having a "cheat day" while dieting, in which we consume extra cals & carbs, the body's metabolic rate is stimulated and therefore, it does not adapt as quickly or as completely to the lower caloric intake, ultimately leading to less plateaus and more rapid fat loss. In the same way, having a once weekly lower-carb day has similar effects on the body, allowing it to respond more positively to the high carb intake throughout the rest of the week.

Of course, exercise also has a strong influence on insulin sensitivity, with each workout having an immediate and measurable impact. Most BB'rs workout regularly, so they are already taking advantage of this benefit, but many BB'rs do not perform cardiovascular exercise, which also has a direct effect on insulin sensitivity. As you can see, there is much we can do to maintain/improve or body's ability to metabolise glucose. How serious we are about taking these steps will determine what type of results one achieves. I would hypothesize that if one implemented all these measures proplerly, he would be able to use Humalog at least 10X per week with minimal effect on his insulin sensitivity. I have now had 3 clients implement almost all of these measures at once, while injecting insulin (Humalog & Humulin, at different times) an average of almost 2X daily, and based on their blood glucose tolerance tests, their insulin sensitivity was well maintained, despite the fact they had been following the program for several months.

 

[Mike Arnold]

I was told by my doctors that using insulin past its expiration or if it was exposed to heat and sunlight which will make it ineffective will cause insulin resistance, my endo freaked out when I told her a bottle of lantus lasted me 3 months. Its good for a month once opened.

This only applies to Lantus. Lantus becomes unpredictable/unstable about 4 weeks after opening and should not be used beyond that time frame for this reason. However, other insulins can be used for many months fater opeing, assuming the are kept refrigerated.

 

[Mike Arnold]

this is so true lol.. when i asked my doctor if she would be as concerned about an alcoholic chain-smoker she said "no not at all"


keep in mind they think we also reuse needles and share them

LOL...I can't believe the ignorance when I hear stuff like that.

 

[dieseljimmy]

what was your dosing protocol like before all that stuff happened? (sorry about your loss btw)

Its was 10 iu hgh 30 min post workout(I lifted four times a week and this was the only hgh taken, also generic china hgh that I later got a serum test done and I was at 9.4, so it was underdosed, maybe closer to 4-5-6iu in practical application)

15 iu "r" 10 min pwo with a carb/creatine/bcaa/ preworkout powder

Same shake no preworkout during the workout

100 igf lr3 after workout...

egg white, oats, fruit in a blender. I later added ON hydro whey.


I also popped 5 iu insulin r in the morning with breakfast.

 

[Standard Donkey]

The two biggest factors used in determining whether or not insulin sensitivity is maintained is how frequently insulin is used, as well as what type of insulin is used. In other words, total time of activity is what matters.

With that in mind, obviously, Humalog would be ideal for this purpose. How many times per week humalog can be used without having any significant effect on insulin sensitvity will be determined by whether or not any insulin sensitizers are used along with it (along with factors such as diet & exercise).

As a general rule of thumb, Humalog can be used about 5X weekly, while having only a minor impact on insulin sensitivity. By combining it with Glucophage 4-5X per week at 1,000-1,500 mg/day (500-750 mg AM/ 500-750 mg PM), it is easily maintained in full. One could even make improvments to their insulin sensitivity while using Humalog 5X per week, to a large degree, if the individual is comprehensive in their approach; most users will not be. For example, there are numerous drugs/supps/steps one can take to improve insulin sensitivity and when they are all combined, the improvements can be dramatic. In addition to Glucophage (which is a potent prescription sensitizer and very effective even when used alone), supps such as ALA, D-chiro-inositol, Cinnamon, Chromium picolinate, Vandyl sulfate, Acetic acid (can be found in apple cider vinegar), and fish oil can all improve insulin sensitivity. Of course, some are more effectuve than others, but the point is that a combined approach is far superior for those individuals seeking maximum effects.

The greater one's total exposure time to insulin, the more important it is for them to take these steps and begin combining different products. Those who abuse inulsin or whose use borders on abuse, are certainly going to want to take preventative/corrrectuve action more seriously. In addition to the above products, our diet plays a massive role in our level of insulin sensitivity. This can be a Catch-22 situation for a serious BB'r, as most BB'rs concume a very large amount of carbs on a regular basis, relative to the average person. This has a strong, negative effect on sensitivity...especially when a considerable portion of one's diet is made up of refined, processed, and/or simple carbs. Trying to tell the typical BB'r to cut back his carb intake is like telling him to stop making progress, as a reduction in carbs and/or overall calories can impair mass gains. Some steps a BB'r can take without harming his progress...and will likely even improve his progress (as well as overall heath) is to consume simple, processed, refined carbs only when they serve a specific purpose.

As an example, an ideal time to utilize processed carbs would be during the training window, when something like branched chain cyclic dextrins are very beneficial for enhancing glycogen storage and overall recovery, but at other times of the day a BB'r is better off consuming whole-grain, slower digesting carbs for his primnary energy source. While fruit may not fit this profile, it shold never be neglected, as it does not have the same effect on the body as a refined or processed carbs would.

Another manner in which we can manipulate our diet in order to improve insulin sensitivity without impairing our growth rate is to have one "low-carb" day per week. Because it is only once per week, muscle growth will not suffer (assuming overall caloric intake is maintained) and may even have a positive effect on growth, as it prevents the body from completely adapting to the excessive carb intake it is exposed to throughout the rest of the week. This principle is very similar to using cheat days when dieting. By having a "cheat day" while dieting, in which we consume extra cals & carbs, the body's metabolic rate is stimulated and therefore, it does not adapt as quickly or as completely to the lower caloric intake, ultimately leading to less plateaus and more rapid fat loss. In the same way, having a once weekly lower-carb day has similar effects on the body, allowing it to respond more positively to the high carb intake throughout the rest of the week.

Of course, exercise also has a strong influence on insulin sensitivity, with each workout having an immediate and measurable impact. Most BB'rs workout regularly, so they are already taking advantage of this benefit, but many BB'rs do not perform cardiovascular exercise, which also has a direct effect on insulin sensitivity. As you can see, there is much we can do to maintain/improve or body's ability to metabolise glucose. How serious we are about taking these steps will determine what type of results one achieves. I would hypothesize that if one implemented all these measures proplerly, he would be able to use Humalog at least 10X per week with minimal effect on his insulin sensitivity. I have now had 3 clients implement almost all of these measures at once, while injecting insulin (Humalog & Humulin, at different times) an average of almost 2X daily, and based on their blood glucose tolerance tests, their insulin sensitivity was well maintained, despite the fact they had been following the program for several months.

sweet thank you Mike Arnold!


i will definitely be looking into these for my next run. im only using humalog about 5x a week this run, but am already thinking ahead to my next run (after a 4 week break during which i will up my sensitivity again, and probably try to get really lean again). I am considering running it not only pre-workout, but periworkout as you suggested and/or perhaps with breakfast.

thank you very much, any advice or input you have is greatly welcomed and received

 

[Standard Donkey]

Mike, for the protocol you laid out, do you drink the shakes immediately? I.E. "chug" them, as it were? or sip them? also do you shoot humalg IM or Sub Q?



i think ill try out your protocol once i get an answer, i looked all around PM for an answer and couldnt find one

 

["TheFuture"]

Lots of great info here.. Love reading threads like this! Thanks for the logs fellas.

 

[theCaptn']

Mike, for the protocol you laid out, do you drink the shakes immediately? I.E. "chug" them, as it were? or sip them? also do you shoot humalg IM or Sub Q?

I got advised that IM activates more quickly, and has a shorter active life. Haven't tried it though.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Mike, for the protocol you laid out, do you drink the shakes immediately? I.E. "chug" them, as it were? or sip them? also do you shoot humalg IM or Sub Q?



i think ill try out your protocol once i get an answer, i looked all around PM for an answer and couldnt find one

I would drink the 1st one right down, as you need to get some nutrienst in your bloodstream right away. You could sip the 2nd shake if you wanted to, but doing so it doesn't serve much purpose, as your body will already be flooded with a constant supply of nutrients when drinking each shake every 60 minutes or so.

Sub-q is better than I.M., as both result in the same effects (aside from onset of action), but sub-q does not causew scar tissue within the muscle.

 

[Standard Donkey]

I would drink the 1st one right down, as you need to get some nutrienst in your bloodstream right away. You could sip the 2nd shake if you wanted to, but doing so it doesn't serve much purpose, as your body will already be flooded with a constant supply of nutrients when drinking each shake every 60 minutes or so.

Sub-q is better than I.M., as both result in the same effects (aside from onset of action), but sub-q does not causew scar tissue within the muscle.

awesome thank you! I have some metformin on the way for my next run.


i can test my fasted blood glucose with my glucometer in order to get an idea of where my insulin sensitivity stands right? i do this my feeding the machine some blood first thing after i wake up?

 

[The Prototype]

awesome thank you! I have some metformin on the way for my next run.


i can test my fasted blood glucose with my glucometer in order to get an idea of where my insulin sensitivity stands right? i do this my feeding the machine some blood first thing after i wake up?

What does metformin do for you? I have a script for it but I don't take it. I've read people using it for BB'ing but I just assumed it would be like taking insulin injections.

 

[Standard Donkey]

my supplier gives me the option of buying a 10ml 100iu/ml vial or three 5ml 100iu cartridges..


im thinking next time ill get the cartridges so they will have a longer shelf life since ill only be opening one at a time.. does this sound prudent?

 

[Standard Donkey]

just did my blood glucose 45 minutes after eating 45g protein 40g carbs and 15g fats (wanted to make sure i know how to use the machine) blood glucose was 91, which i think is pretty darn good considering i had recently eaten.. not sure though. taking my fasted blood glucose first thing tommorrow morning



in theory, if i were to keep my fasted blood glucose within a certain range, i would be able to use insulin for an extended period of time right?

 

["TheFuture"]

So after reading through every post on this thread.. I am still a bit confused on one thing, or maybe this may not make a huge difference.

Would it be better or more plausible to run insulin along side a cycle/blast or run it during a cruise where AAS intake would be lower? Would running it during a cruise like SD has done increase insulin sensitivity? Or could one run it during a cycle, and run a lower dose of AAS vs a moderate to high dose of AAS + Insulin?

Seems people have ran it multiple ways. Didn't know what the best approach or protocol may be.

 

[Standard Donkey]

So after reading through every post on this thread.. I am still a bit confused on one thing, or maybe this may not make a huge difference.

Would it be better or more plausible to run insulin along side a cycle/blast or run it during a cruise where AAS intake would be lower? Would running it during a cruise like SD has done increase insulin sensitivity? Or could one run it during a cycle, and run a lower dose of AAS vs a moderate to high dose of AAS + Insulin?

Seems people have ran it multiple ways. Didn't know what the best approach or protocol may be.

im running it 4 on/4 off


im going to be running 12 week blasts, and 4 week cruises. Im going to use the insulin during my cruises to help me maintain gains from the blasts/make new gains.


the slin use will intersect with my blast from the 5th-8th week and then cease until my cruise and repeat.. i feel this way is good to maintain sensitivity while making steady progress without putting undue stress on my body.


1-4 aas no slin, 5-8 aas (up dose) +slin, 9-12 aas (up dose) no slin, 13-16 cruise on 100/100 tren E test E + slin (repeat)

 

["TheFuture"]

im running it 4 on/4 off


im going to be running 12 week blasts, and 4 week cruises. Im going to use the insulin during my cruises to help me maintain gains from the blasts/make new gains.


the slin use will intersect with my blast from the 5th-8th week and then cease until my cruise and repeat.. i feel this way is good to maintain sensitivity while making steady progress without putting undue stress on my body.


1-4 aas no slin, 5-8 aas (up dose) +slin, 9-12 aas (up dose) no slin, 13-16 cruise on 100/100 tren E test E + slin (repeat)

Hmmm, that makes sense. I kind of like that 4wk on 4wk off approach.
So your running slin during your blast (in the middle) as well as during your cruise. You stated that you ("up dose")..meaning you are upping your AAS dosage throughout your blast? Is there a specific reason to doing this, does it aide in helping with slin sensitivity at all?
I have done this in past blasts/cycles with AAS only but didn't feel it really did much or make a difference for me. Maybe it makes a difference with long vs short esters?...

 

[Standard Donkey]

Hmmm, that makes sense. I kind of like that 4wk on 4wk off approach.
So your running slin during your blast (in the middle) as well as during your cruise. You stated that you ("up dose")..meaning you are upping your AAS dosage throughout your blast? Is there a specific reason to doing this, does it aide in helping with slin sensitivity at all?
I have done this in past blasts/cycles with AAS only but didn't feel it really did much or make a difference for me. Maybe it makes a difference with long vs short esters?...

yes i will up the dose of AAS during my blast, probably during the 6 week period for myostatin purposes.. the layout is still in its infancy stages and has a lot of tweaking to be done... but slin during cruise and sometime during blast is the basic structure



i still have a lot of questions for Mike Arnold. Im doing a lot of research over at PM about insulin

 

[cottonmouth]

1-4 aas no slin, 5-8 aas (up dose) +slin, 9-12 aas (up dose) no slin, 13-16 cruise on 100/100 tren E test E + slin (repeat)

I think that looks good,,To me anyway, it makes a lot of sense. Good way of keeping the gains coming, and keeping them,.

 

[theCaptn']

I think that looks good,,To me anyway, it makes a lot of sense. Good way of keeping the gains coming, and keeping them,.

I like the layout too.

 

[BlueJayMuscle]

considering throwing slin into my contest prep for 4 weeks at 10-6 weeks out at 10iu preworkout with mike Arnold's suggested shakes to put on some more muscle while shredding down. Really want to be top of the weight class.

Thoughts on this?

 

[Standard Donkey]

took my fasted blood glucose this morning.. nothing like your glucometer stabbing u first thing in the morning as a wake up call.. anyways, it was 68.


ran Mike Arnold's protocol (as best i could.. used peptopro + leucine + creatine + beta alanine + karbolyn... ihave a whey/casein hydro mix +glutamine peptides that is coming in today that i will be using for future sessions + glycerol etc..ironically cheaper than peptopro lmao..) today and all i can say is..


HOLY SHIT! haha that was fun! INSANE session.. word of advice - be ready for high volumes of fluids before and during your training.. almost felt a little nauseaous drinking all those shakes while wearing my belt (back day deadlift emphasis)



i used 16 iu's... would it be weird to use more?


definitely going to be sticking with 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off.. cant wait until my slin use intersects with my aas usage. am getting blood work taken this week to check my liver/lipids/rbc etc.. will likely donate blood to the waste bin

 

[Standard Donkey]

i think im gunna cut the carbs out of my last meal (i eat 6 a day 45/40/15 p/c/f) of the day on training days just to stave off fat gain/insulin insensitivity as best i can.. goodbye ezekiel bread , but i believe it's for the best

 

[heckler7]

This only applies to Lantus. Lantus becomes unpredictable/unstable about 4 weeks after opening and should not be used beyond that time frame for this reason. However, other insulins can be used for many months fater opeing, assuming the are kept refrigerated.

this is correct, I just read the boxes

 

[AnabolicAmerica]

I'd like to try this some day as well. The guys I know that take it are fucking huge and always have big bags of candy on hand... I'd have to research the hell out of it before running.

 

[Mr Persistent]

Does it have to be this humalog stuff? My guy has some pharma vails of slin fast and slow acting I want to use them I'm my next cycle of test and deca hmmm grey thread captn seems to have worked well for you, he advised me its better to use when bulking but he also said he's never ran it so he doesn't want to advise me how to take it so I have to do my research and hire somebody for my drug regemin. Also concerned about these shakes could I get good results using just bcaa some isolate whey and luceine in each shake and dextrose I know it's not optimal but will it work good?

 

[SuperLift]

also, the fatter you are, the fatter you'll get. Makes since, but idk if it's true or not

This was the one thing I would be worried about, but I'm looking forward to seeing your progress!