An Inconvenient Truth

[Arnold]

Pepper/DOMS they have been measuring the CO2 levels for over 30 years and there is direct correlation between the increase in CO2 and the increase in the temperature, watch the movie and let Gore explain it.

Again, I have no desire to debate this, if you don't want to believe it don't. I say the movie is worth watching, but if your mind is made up and/or you don't think you will learn anything, fine I really don't care.

 

[fufu]

Pepper/DOMS they have been measuring the CO2 levels for over 30 years and there is direct correlation between the increase in CO2 and the increase in the temperature, watch the movie and let Gore explain it.

Again, I have no desire to debate this, if you don't want to believe it don't. I say the movie is worth watching, but if your mind is made up and/or you don't think you will learn anything, fine I really don't care.

I really don't see how you can correlete ANYTHING about global temperature from only 30 years of measurements. CO2 levels can be increasing and so can the temp...over 30 years though. That is only a millisecond in the scenario of global lifetime.

I'm not closed off the idea that global warming could be happening and that it could be caused by humans. However, I just don't think we have enough information to make a informed statement on it.

I will say one say, CO2 levels are not healthy whether there is global warming or not and we should be cleaning that up.

 

[fufu]

Also, being it a big time movie with so much money involved I am very skeptical. I would have the same attitude if it was disproving global warming caused by humans. When money and power get really involved facts and good science will be thrown out the window.

Also just throwing this out there about the subject. I stopped getting in debates with people about global warming for a while because they go DIRECTLY to political pre-judgice. Time and time again this has happened with me. It really pisses me off because I try to speak in a purely scientific manner and they bring politics into it! Saying snively things like "you must be conservative". What the fuck does politics have to do with this discussion!!! And no I'm not "conservative", whatever the hell that means these days. I don't hold any political sides because I hate politics.

 

[DOMS]

I really don't see how you can correlete ANYTHING about global temperature from only 30 years of measurements. CO2 levels can be increasing and so can the temp...over 30 years though. That is only a millisecond in the scenario of global lifetime.

I'm not closed off the idea that global warming could be happening and that it could be caused by humans. However, I just don't think we have enough information to make a informed statement on it.

I will say one say, CO2 levels are not healthy whether there is global warming or not and we should be cleaning that up.

Aw, come on, fufu! Of course you can reach a definitive decision on the climate from just 30 years of data. All you need to do is ignore the other hundreds of millions of years of data.

 

[fufu]

 

[DOMS]

Here's something I wrote to he-who-must-not-be-named a while back. This was written in April as winter was ending.

I went to your shitty little website and tore it a new ass.

Here's another piece of shit you posted.

[FONT=new york, palatino, arial]The current global warming trends are nothing more than natural repetitions of warming seen during medieval times.


[/FONT]"Medieval times?" "Medieval times?!" The Earth has been around a lot fucking longer than a few hundred years.


Good Lord, the world it ending. Global warming is happening way too fast! Why just a mere month ago it was only 30F and now it's 75F!!! At this rate the world will be at 165F in just two months!!! Oh, the humanity!!!

...

Moron.

Oh shit, it's even worse than that!!!

This morning it was only 60F and now it's 75F. At this rate it'll be 285F in a single week!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[fufu]

Yes it does seem like people are looking at temperatures too quantitively, which just simply something that is just not happening.

 

[DOMS]

Yes it does seem like people are looking at temperatures too quantitively, which simply is not something that is just not happening.

You hit the nail on the head. Even if you set aside the warming that started 10,000 years ago, and the fact that this isn't the warmest the world has ever been, were talking about a tempurate increase of a degree or two so far. That difference could be classified as a statistical anomaly.

 

[Vieope]

I dont know if we are responsible for global warming but we are responsible for a lot of bad things. Pollution, nuclear waste, endangered animals and trees, quality of the air in cities, too many people and other things.

 

[DOMS]

I dont know if we are responsible for global warming but we are responsible for a lot of bad things. Pollution, nuclear waste, endangered animals and trees, quality of the air in cities, too many people and other things.

You'll get no argument from me on the pollution problem. Despite what others would like to believe, we are making stides to clean things up, but we can certainly do so much more.

 

[Decker]

Yes it does seem like people are looking at temperatures too quantitively, which just simply something that is just not happening.

I don't know. I wouldn't presume to criticize the methodology of an overwhelming scientific consensus that man's industrial pursuits are aggravating the greenhouse effect. I am not an expert. Also, I am not prone to oversimplified analyses based on common sense/perception that conclude no problem exists.

You mention that you're skeptical about money/power entering the discussion yet it is the big business industrial processes that are largely to blame for the spiking of greenhouse gases. As for whether politics belongs in this discussion, everything is political; especially where money/power enter the fray.

Where there is a dollar to be made, big business will not rest. From the military industrial complex making a fortune off of the quick killings in Iraq to the push to privatize social security to the slow death wrought by big industry and its global warming activities, the gravy train will keep running b/c of love of power and wealth over all else.

 

[fufu]

I don't know. I wouldn't presume to criticize the methodology of an overwhelming scientific consensus that man's industrial pursuits are aggravating the greenhouse effect. I am not an expert. Also, I am not prone to oversimplified analyses based on common sense/perception that conclude no problem exists.

You mention that you're skeptical about money/power entering the discussion yet it is the big business industrial processes that are largely to blame for the spiking of greenhouse gases. As for whether politics belongs in this discussion, everything is political; especially where money/power enter the fray.

Where there is a dollar to be made, big business will not rest. From the military industrial complex making a fortune off of the quick killings in Iraq to the push to privatize social security to the slow death wrought by big industry and its global warming activities, the gravy train will keep running b/c of love of power and wealth over all else.

I have no love for the large amounts of pollution put out by the industries either. I stated above that pollution is very real and very unhealthy, that is a problem we should be trying to do something about. I'm not taking sides on global warming, I'm just trying to look at it rationally.

Again, I am being prejudgiced again(or so it seems). People automatically think that since I don't nesseccarily think global warming is happening and being caused by humans(although I'm not closed to the idea) that I am all for the big industries and have a blind eye towards their pollution emissions and their possible effect on global warming. I'm not for either!

You're right though, money and power will have say over the real or potential facts. It goes both ways.

 

[DOMS]

Again, I am being prejudgiced again(or so it seems). People automatically think that since I don't nesseccarily think global warming is happening and being caused by humans(although I'm not closed to the idea) that I am all for the big industries and have a blind eye towards their pollution emissions and their possible effect on global warming. I'm not for either!

Bingo. That's exactly how it works.

 

[MCx2]

I could care less either way. I'll be long gone before it matters anyway.

 

[Decker]

... I'm not taking sides on global warming, I'm just trying to look at it rationally.....

Then as a matter of course you would do one of 2 things. One, you would become an expert in the field or two, you would defer to the opinions of other experts in the field (climate scientists).

Personally, I have not become an expert in the field. So I defer to real, accredited experts (i.e., not industry shills getting paid by the polluters). The scientific consensus is that global warming is real and happening right now. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,66651,00.html

But since we are just shooting the shit here, let's say that there is a 50/50 chance that global warming is happening and fast reaching the tipping point...if it is happening.

Isn't the sane, conservative thing to do err on the side of safety? Isn't it a bit gung ho and foolhardy to turn a blind eye to something so great in scope and detrimental to our way of life?

Is there not a responsibility on our part to our progeny?

 

[DOMS]

Then as a matter of course you would do one of 2 things. One, you would become an expert in the field or two, you would defer to the opinions of other experts in the field (climate scientists).

Personally, I have not become an expert in the field. So I defer to real, accredited experts (i.e., not industry shills getting paid by the polluters). The scientific consensus is that global warming is real and happening right now. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,66651,00.html

But since we are just shooting the shit here, let's say that there is a 50/50 chance that global warming is happening and fast reaching the tipping point...if it is happening.

Isn't the sane, conservative thing to do err on the side of safety? Isn't it a bit gung ho and foolhardy to turn a blind eye to something so great in scope and detrimental to our way of life?

Is there not a responsibility on our part to our progeny?

Fine. Let's just say that global warming is affected by man. Shit like the Kyoto Protocol isn't the way to try to fix things.

And so long as it's understood that global warming can't be stopped.

 

[Decker]

Fine. Let's just say that global warming is affected by man. Shit like the Kyoto Protocol isn't the way to try to fix things.

And so long as it's understood that global warming can't be stopped.

It depends. Kyoto can build worldwide support for more effective measures, especially if a world leader like the US is on board.

Global warming cannot be stopped but it can be diminished.

A good analogy is aging. You can't stop it, but you can fight it and still live well. For me at least, that's one of the main reasons I lift weights. I'm pushing 40 and in 20 years, I want to be close to the same guy I am now.

 

[ALBOB]

in 20 years, I want to be close to the same guy I am now.

God save us all.

 

[fufu]

Then as a matter of course you would do one of 2 things. One, you would become an expert in the field or two, you would defer to the opinions of other experts in the field (climate scientists).

Personally, I have not become an expert in the field. So I defer to real, accredited experts (i.e., not industry shills getting paid by the polluters). The scientific consensus is that global warming is real and happening right now. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,66651,00.html

But since we are just shooting the shit here, let's say that there is a 50/50 chance that global warming is happening and fast reaching the tipping point...if it is happening.

Isn't the sane, conservative thing to do err on the side of safety? Isn't it a bit gung ho and foolhardy to turn a blind eye to something so great in scope and detrimental to our way of life?

Is there not a responsibility on our part to our progeny?

Do you need to be a chemist to say that water is made up of 2 hyrdogen atoms and one oxygen? Do you need to be an expert of the atmosphere to know that the sky is blue? Or a biologist to understand the reasoning behind Darwin's theory? Common sense does not have to be thrown out the door.

The earth has been around for so long....and for there to serious claims that we are changing the temperature to noticable and dangerous levels is ridiculous IMO. It can take people a few days to feel the full effects of a sickness. A few days on a geologic timescale is like hundereds of thousands of years. Atleast. That is to my knowledge of experts in the geologic community.

I could give a shit what the so called "scientific consensus" is on such a politcally oriented issue. I am highly skeptical. I'm not a scholar of what I am talking about but I have spent an internship with several geologists and geophysicists. I am throwing my opinion out there for people to digest and take it for what it is.

 

[DOMS]

It depends. Kyoto can build worldwide support for more effective measures, especially if a world leader like the US is on board.

Creating anamosity between those that need to clean their act up, isn't good. In the short run or the long run.

Global warming cannot be stopped but it can be diminished.

So long as the goal is reasonable.

 

[DOMS]

Do you need to be a chemist to say that water is made up of 2 hyrdogen atoms and one oxygen? Do you need to be an expert of the atmosphere to know that the sky is blue? Or a biologist to understand the reasoning behind Darwin's theory? Common sense does not have to be thrown out the door.

The earth has been around for so long....and for there to serious claims that we are changing the temperature to noticable and dangerous levels is ridiculous IMO. It can take people a few days to feel the full effects of a sickness. A few days on a geologic timescale is like hundereds of thousands of years. Atleast. That is to my knowledge of experts in the geologic community.

I could give a shit what the so called "scientific consensus" is on such a politcally oriented issue. I am highly skeptical. I'm not a scholar of what I am talking about but I have spent an internship with several geologists and geophysicists. I am throwing my opinion out there for people to digest and take it for what it is.

 

[maniclion]

You can't get all of your info from one movie, I mean look at a movie like "Reefer Madness" made back in the 30's about Marijuana "Addicts" who go insane after they smoke some herb.....the movie now a days is fucking hilarious to watch especially when they show guys with shaky hands and wide eyeballs like they were crack addicts or something. Now I know a lot of people smoke the shit these days and I know people who drink alcohol...the drinkers are usually the ones who end up getting violent and crazy......so we see movies can have such an impact even if all of the information is wrong, people were so scared of weed back then and the fear continued well into the 1970's and I even know older people who think it'll turn you into a psychopath like my gf's 88 yo grandfather I offered to get him some marijuana so his appetite would improve and he freaked out about it saying it would make him crazy, this is the same guy who drank a 12 pack of beer everyday for nearly 50 years and wound up bed ridden because he got drunk one night and fell hurting his back...


So movies, they are powerful but you need to do some fact finding of your own....in the case of this movie though I don't see the harm in trying to persuade people to be more energy conservative and use alternate sources for the sake of the economy, ecology and National Security....

 

[fufu]

This thread is helping me warm up the ol' brain the the next semester.

 

[Arnold]

I could give a shit what the so called "scientific consensus" is on such a politcally oriented issue. I am highly skeptical. I'm not a scholar of what I am talking about but I have spent an internship with several geologists and geophysicists. I am throwing my opinion out there for people to digest and take it for what it is.

that's fine, but at least use some actual science to back up your opinion...

all I have seen in this thread to dispute global warming is "the earth goes through heating/cooling cycles" and "we have not been around long enough to have an impact".

Gore presents actual science to support his theory, can you at least do that?

 

[shiznit2169]

For every argument you make, you must have a counter-argument

 

[DOMS]

that's fine, but at least use some actual science to back up your opinion...

all I have seen in this thread to dispute global warming is "the earth goes through heating/cooling cycles" and "we have not been around long enough to have an impact".

Gore presents actual science to support his theory, can you at least do that?

I've posted links, and quotes, some very simply facts about the crap that is known as global warming.

I found a document that sums up all that I've been saying. You can get it here.

• The CFC link with global warming is not the fact that you (and people like you) wish that it was.
• The Earth has it's own warming and cooling cycles.
• The current warming trend started 10,000 years ago (when the artic ice cap reaching into what is now the US).
• The Earth has been warmer than it is now (as recently as 1000 years ago).

Simply and to the point. You may not like them, but they are the facts.

 

[Arnold]

I never said I was convinced one way or the other, I just said the movie was worth watching and that Gore presented a good scientific argument.

 

[DOMS]

I never said I was convinced one way or the other, I just said the movie was worth watching and that Gore presented a good scientific argument.

You said that we, on the con global warming side, weren't providing any proof of our facts. I've linked (in past posts in other threads) every point that I just wrote.

 

[ZECH]

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2004/06-14-2004/science.htm

 

[ZECH]

http://www.charlesmontgomery.ca/mrcool.html